Re-doing WNBA drafts, Part 1: 2014-2018

[bballnut90]

Thought of this idea to help keep the board flowing in the offseason. I'll post a new range of years each day going back to 1997. The premise is simple, with hindsight being 20/20, if you could redo the draft based on player ranking (rather than team need), what would your draft look like? Here are my picks for 2014 going up to 2018:

2014 Draft:
1. Chelsea Gray
2. Kayla McBride
3. Alyssa Thomas
4. Chiney Ogwumike
5. Natasha Howard
6. Stefanie Dolson
7. Odyssey Sims
8. Bria Hartley
9. Natalie Achonwa

Outside of these 9 there were a few players who've made roster for a few seasons, but this ended up being a deep draft with these 9 all making big impacts. Gray has been the best of the bunch IMO, highlighted her post season heroics in 2016 and All-WNBA campaign last year. She's the clear outlier here in regards to her impact relative to where she was drafted. Chiney also would probably higher if she was healthier.

2015 Draft:
1. Jewell Loyd
2. Elizabeth Williams
3. Brittany Boyd
4. Isabelle Harrison
5. Amanda Zahui B.
6. Cheyenne Parker
7. Dearica Hamby
8. Kiah Stokes
9. KML

Really weak draft overall. Loyd has been the clear standout, which is not a surprise based on her performance at ND. Williams and Boyd have been a better player than expected while KML has been pretty underwhelming her first 4 years.

2016 Draft:
1. Breanna Stewart
2. Jonquel Jones
3. Moriah Jefferson
4. Courtney Williams
5. Aerial Powers
6. Tiffany Mitchell
7. Morgan Tuck
8. Imani Boyette
9. Kahleah Copper
10. Rachel Banham

We're starting to get into the territory of where it's too early to judge players....but if we do, Stewart is the clear standout which is no surprise. Jonquel Jones was fantastic last year but seems to have taken a massive step back. Jefferson has been fantastic when healthy and Williams is emerging as a star from this class. Tuck and Banham were drafted too high by Connecticut, I wouldn't consider either busts, but Connecticut is very deep and both could find their stride on a different team in coming seasons.


2017 Draft:
1. Kelsey Plum
2. Brittney Sykes
3. Alisha Gray
4. Kaela Davis
After that..?

Another draft that is too early to judge, but from the looks of it this draft was absolutely awful. Plum, Sykes and Gray are the only players who are sure bets to be in the league next year. Players like Alexis Jones, Syd Wiese, Brionna Jones, Nia Coffey, Kaela Davis and Alaina Coates will need to make big improvements in the offseason or find new teams if they want to make it in this league.

2018 Draft:
1. A'ja Wilson
2. Diamond Deshields
3. Ariel Atkins
4. Kelsey Mitchell
5. Azura Stevens
6. Victoria Vivians
7. Gabby Williams
8. Kia Nurse
9. Jordin Canada
10. Maria Vadeeva

One of the best drafts ever. Wilson, Deshields and Atkins have been the most consistent rookies and Wilson been performing at an All-WNBA level in her first year. Stevens, Nurse, Williams, Vivians and Mitchell have had bursts of great play, all have great frames and skill sets that should translate to larger roles in future seasons. Canada has looked good as a backup for Bird, Vadeeva is very young but has shown some flashes of good play. Those ten all look like sure bets to be big contributors for years to come.

Aside from these ten, you still have Lexie Brown, Marie Gulich, Jamie Nared, Stephanie Mavunga, Monique Billings, and Mercedes Russell who could make strides in the offseason.

 

[rt bb fan]

Thought of this idea to help keep the board flowing in the offseason. I'll post a new range of years each day going back to 1997. The premise is simple, with hindsight being 20/20, if you could redo the draft based on player ranking (rather than team need), what would your draft look like? Here are my picks for 2014 going up to 2018:

2014 Draft:
1. Chelsea Gray
2. Kayla McBride
3. Alyssa Thomas
4. Chiney Ogwumike
5. Natasha Howard
6. Stefanie Dolson
7. Odyssey Sims
8. Bria Hartley
9. Natalie Achonwa

Outside of these 9 there were a few players who've made roster for a few seasons, but this ended up being a deep draft with these 9 all making big impacts. Gray has been the best of the bunch IMO, highlighted her post season heroics in 2016 and All-WNBA campaign last year. She's the clear outlier here in regards to her impact relative to where she was drafted. Chiney also would probably higher if she was healthier.

2015 Draft:
1. Jewell Loyd
2. Elizabeth Williams
3. Brittany Boyd
4. Isabelle Harrison
5. Amanda Zahui B.
6. Cheyenne Parker
7. Dearica Hamby
8. Kiah Stokes
9. KML

Really weak draft overall. Loyd has been the clear standout, which is not a surprise based on her performance at ND. Williams and Boyd have been a better player than expected while KML has been pretty underwhelming her first 4 years.

2016 Draft:
1. Breanna Stewart
2. Jonquel Jones
3. Moriah Jefferson
4. Courtney Williams
5. Aerial Powers
6. Tiffany Mitchell
7. Morgan Tuck
8. Imani Boyette
9. Kahleah Copper
10. Rachel Banham

We're starting to get into the territory of where it's too early to judge players....but if we do, Stewart is the clear standout which is no surprise. Jonquel Jones was fantastic last year but seems to have taken a massive step back. Jefferson has been fantastic when healthy and Williams is emerging as a star from this class. Tuck and Banham were drafted too high by Connecticut, I wouldn't consider either busts, but Connecticut is very deep and both could find their stride on a different team in coming seasons.


2017 Draft:
1. Kelsey Plum
2. Brittney Sykes
3. Alisha Gray
4. Kaela Davis
After that..?

Another draft that is too early to judge, but from the looks of it this draft was absolutely awful. Plum, Sykes and Gray are the only players who are sure bets to be in the league next year. Players like Alexis Jones, Syd Wiese, Brionna Jones, Nia Coffey, Kaela Davis and Alaina Coates will need to make big improvements in the offseason or find new teams if they want to make it in this league.

2018 Draft:
1. A'ja Wilson
2. Diamond Deshields
3. Ariel Atkins
4. Kelsey Mitchell
5. Azura Stevens
6. Victoria Vivians
7. Gabby Williams
8. Kia Nurse
9. Jordin Canada
10. Maria Vadeeva

One of the best drafts ever. Wilson, Deshields and Atkins have been the most consistent rookies and Wilson been performing at an All-WNBA level in her first year. Stevens, Nurse, Williams, Vivians and Mitchell have had bursts of great play, all have great frames and skill sets that should translate to larger roles in future seasons. Canada has looked good as a backup for Bird, Vadeeva is very young but has shown some flashes of good play. Those ten all look like sure bets to be big contributors for years to come.

Aside from these ten, you still have Lexie Brown, Marie Gulich, Jamie Nared, Stephanie Mavunga, Monique Billings, and Mercedes Russell who could make strides in the offseason.

Have to disagree DEshields is inconsistent.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Syd Wiese

Wiese had a leg injury that kept her from playing most of this season. She had a couple big games as a rookie. Even when available she barely gets off the bench for LA. Seems like they don't consider her a PG so she's just another guard/wing that is buried on the depth chart. Kind of some duplication w/ Karlie Samuelson who also barely plays.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Request: Please add the actual draft order in parentheses after each player.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Looking at 2014, you have:

2014 Draft:

1. Chelsea Gray
2. Kayla McBride
3. Alyssa Thomas
4. Chiney Ogwumike
5. Natasha Howard
6. Stefanie Dolson
7. Odyssey Sims
8. Bria Hartley
9. Natalie Achonwa

Are we ranking them based on their cumulative career, high points, or current status?

Chelsea had 2 years at under 7 ppg and 2 years at over 14 ppg. Based on All-Star status, winning a championship, and making key shots, she should be near the top, but maybe not at the very top. (Keep in mind she was injured when drafted.)

KMac is in a different situation, on a formerly bad team, but her scoring has been more consistent and 5 ppg higher than Gray's.

Alyssa has become a key player of her team. She still has a shooting deficiency, but is very effective. Last year was her best season by fair amount.

Chiney missed a full season, and her best stats were as a rookie. It seems as if the Sun is struggling to get her, AT, and Jonquel to fit in. She may have Nneka potential.

Howard had limited impact in Indy and not much more in Minnesota, but has found the right situation in Seattle. Based on this season and the last month especially, I think she's the best/most valuable of the group.

There is a lot of variation by season in this group, especially with Gray and Howard.

 

[bballnut90]

Looking at 2014, you have:

2014 Draft:

1. Chelsea Gray
2. Kayla McBride
3. Alyssa Thomas
4. Chiney Ogwumike
5. Natasha Howard
6. Stefanie Dolson
7. Odyssey Sims
8. Bria Hartley
9. Natalie Achonwa

Are we ranking them based on their cumulative career, high points, or current status?

Chelsea had 2 years at under 7 ppg and 2 years at over 14 ppg. Based on All-Star status, winning a championship, and making key shots, she should be near the top, but maybe not at the very top. (Keep in mind she was injured when drafted.)

KMac is in a different situation, on a formerly bad team, but her scoring has been more consistent and 5 ppg higher than Gray's.

Alyssa has become a key player of her team. She still has a shooting deficiency, but is very effective. Last year was her best season by fair amount.

Chiney missed a full season, and her best stats were as a rookie. It seems as if the Sun is struggling to get her, AT, and Jonquel to fit in. She may have Nneka potential.

Howard had limited impact in Indy and not much more in Minnesota, but has found the right situation in Seattle. Based on this season and the last month especially, I think she's the best/most valuable of the group.

There is a lot of variation by season in this group, especially with Gray and Howard.

Ranking them on their overall W career. So it’s still very early for any of these classes...figured I’d start with recent drafts though since people will be more familiar with these players. So when looking at Gray, her sitting out as a rookie and playing in a smaller role her first two years would count against her.

Who would you draft over Gray? There are a lot of good players but no one stands out to me as much as Gray. It took her a couple of years but she was huge in the playoffs in 2016 despite not averaging double figures and IMO has been the best player from this class the last two years.

 

[bballnut90]

Wiese had a leg injury that kept her from playing most of this season. She had a couple big games as a rookie. Even when available she barely gets off the bench for LA. Seems like they don't consider her a PG so she's just another guard/wing that is buried on the depth chart. Kind of some duplication w/ Karlie Samuelson who also barely plays.

Have a hard time imagining either player will be on a roster next year or will play meaningful minutes. Both can shoot

Have to disagree DEshields is inconsistent.

She’s scored 8 points or more in 16 of the last 17 games, including double figures in 13 of them. She isn’t at Wilson’s level by any means but she’s been far more consistent than the rest of the rookies.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Ranking them on their overall W career. So it’s still very early for any of these classes...figured I’d start with recent drafts though since people will be more familiar with these players. So when looking at Gray, her sitting out as a rookie and playing in a smaller role her first two years would count against her.

Who would you draft over Gray? There are a lot of good players but no one stands out to me as much as Gray. It took her a couple of years but she was huge in the playoffs in 2016 despite not averaging double figures and IMO has been the best player from this class the last two years.

I think Chelsea is as good as anyone in that group right now, but I’d put Howard even with her. Chelsea had a big jump 2 years ago; Natasha is having hers this season. The post-season may give us more input. In terms of career to date, I give the edge to KMac. She hasn’t had any mediocre years.

In most years, the #1 pick has had the best career. The list includes Catchings, Bird, Taurasi, Augustus, Parker, Charles, Moore, Ogwumike, Griner, Stewart, and Wilson. But after that, the rank order varies a lot. The “3 to See” group was unusual. There is not much difference among Griner, Delle Donne, and Diggins. The Parker/Fowles comparison is fairly close. In time, the Moore/Cambage comparison may be. Maya has a big lead as of now.

 

[bballnut90]

I think Chelsea is as good as anyone in that group right now, but I’d put Howard even with her. Chelsea had a big jump 2 years ago; Natasha is having hers this season. The post-season may give us more input. In terms of career to date, I give the edge to KMac. She hasn’t had any mediocre years.

In most years, the #1 pick has had the best career. The list includes Catchings, Bird, Taurasi, Augustus, Parker, Charles, Moore, Ogwumike, Griner, Stewart, and Wilson. But after that, the rank order varies a lot. The “3 to See” group was unusual. There is not much difference among Griner, Delle Donne, and Diggins. The Parker/Fowles comparison is fairly close. In time, the Moore/Cambage comparison may be. Maya has a big lead as of now.

No way I’d put Howard even with Gray not even close. Gray was an All-WNBA player last year and might be again this year. She was also huge in LA winning a title in 2016 and was a primary scorer last year on the runner up team. If you’re forecasting players going forward, then Howard is high up, but based on what she’s accomplished vs Gray; there’s not a comparison IMO.

Agree about #1 picks have usually been the major standouts. Huge disparity many years between the #1 pick and #2. 2018, 2017, 2016, and 2015 are all great examples of this. We’ll continue to see more of that in other drafts going further back.

And Catchings was actually #3 pick in 2001, #1 was Lauren Jackson that year, Kelly Miller #2. Catchings missed her full rookie season with an ACL so she likely would’ve been picked at least #2 overall had she been healthy.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Well look at Seattle's improvement this year. Some of that you can attribute to a coaching change, some of it is further maturation by Stewie and Loyd, Sue is Sue (although she's having about as good of a year as she's ever had), but you have to give some of the credit to what Howard has brought to the team. She has to be a run away winner of Most Improved Player this season. She's been huge for the Storm. And LA has struggled off and on all season despite all the talent they have.

 

[bballnut90]

Well look at Seattle's improvement this year. Some of that you can attribute to a coaching change, some of it is further maturation by Stewie and Loyd, Sue is Sue (although she's having about as good of a year as she's ever had), but you have to give some of the credit to what Howard has brought to the team. She has to be a run away winner of Most Improved Player this season. She's been huge for the Storm. And LA has struggled off and on all season despite all the talent they have.

She’s been hugely important and is having a great year, but her WNBA career pales in comparison to Gray’s at this point.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Not trying to hijack a thread but if anyone wants to look back at the class of 2001 they could be the best draft class of all time. Jackson was a legit superstar despite her health and one of the best players in the world. Catchings was the #3 pick but came back from a couple of major injuries to be one of the best of all time. Miller was #2 and was never a star but played several years, winning a title with Taurasi and Pondexter in Phoenix along with Penny Taylor, who was drafted that year as well.

I won't go pick by pick but this draft also contained Ruth Riley and Deanna Nolan, who won a title in Detroit. Katie Douglas played for many years as well and had a great career. Marie Ferdinand put up good numbers as well. Jackie Stiles had a good rookie year but then got injured and her body just broke. Tammy Sutton-Brown was a 2nd round choice but played for many seasons as well.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Well look at Seattle's improvement this year. Some of that you can attribute to a coaching change, some of it is further maturation by Stewie and Loyd, Sue is Sue (although she's having about as good of a year as she's ever had), but you have to give some of the credit to what Howard has brought to the team. She has to be a run away winner of Most Improved Player this season. She's been huge for the Storm. And LA has struggled off and on all season despite all the talent they have.

I agree on the most improved. But she is finally having a season where people are really recognizing her. If she continues to have seasons like this then she would prove more valuable. However, as we have learned this a season by season thing. Fowles last years MVP isn't really having an MVP season. Yes she is still good, but collectively this won't go down as one of her best seasons.

LA has struggled on the offensive end. Everyone seems to be a little off this year other than Essence and Riquana who is streaky. Neither really put up as much offense last year. Sims was more offensively explosive last year. I think having surgery in Jan and not playing a full season overseas has thrown her off.



(This just shows how bored we all are) I need more post like this to through next couple months until season starts.

 

[MilfordHusky]

No way I’d put Howard even with Gray not even close. Gray was an All-WNBA player last year and might be again this year. She was also huge in LA winning a title in 2016 and was a primary scorer last year on the runner up team. If you’re forecasting players going forward, then Howard is high up, but based on what she’s accomplished vs Gray; there’s not a comparison IMO.

Agree about #1 picks have usually been the major standouts. Huge disparity many years between the #1 pick and #2. 2018, 2017, 2016, and 2015 are all great examples of this. We’ll continue to see more of that in other drafts going further back.

And Catchings was actually #3 pick in 2001, #1 was Lauren Jackson that year, Kelly Miller #2. Catchings missed her full rookie season with an ACL so she likely would’ve been picked at least #2 overall had she been healthy.

Thanks for the correction on Catch. I know she was the ROY in 2002. As the #1 pick, LJ was a standout.

Have you watched Seattle in the past month? Howard has been arguably their best player in several games. She’s averaging 13.2 ppg and is 2nd in the league in blocks and 13th in rebounding. Chelsea is really good, but Natasha has become really good too.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Thanks for the correction on Catch. I know she was the ROY in 2002. As the #1 pick, LJ was a standout.

Have you watched Seattle in the past month? Howard has been arguably their best player in several games. She’s averaging 13.2 ppg and is 2nd in the league in blocks and 13th in rebounding. Chelsea is really good, but Natasha has become really good too.

But it's finally that way. Chelsea has collectively become one of the best guards in the league over the past few seasons. If Howard is still playing like this next year then I think she could be considered the no.1.

Poor Odyssey was with Fred too long!

 

[MilfordHusky]

But it's finally that way. Chelsea has collectively become one of the best guards in the league over the past few seasons. If Howard is still playing like this next year then I think she could be considered the no.1.

Poor Odyssey was with Fred too long!

Again, it depends on what time span one considers. Chelsea has had 2 solid years to only 1 for Natasha. But KMac has had 4.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Again, it depends on what time span one considers. Chelsea has had 2 solid years to only 1 for Natasha. But KMac has had 4.

Touche on that one.

I think KMAC is good, but she has been good for the time she has been in there. I would still take Howard and Gray over her if I were drafting today. I mean Howard has become a beast and Gray can make just about any contested shot you need.

 

[bballnut90]

Thanks for the correction on Catch. I know she was the ROY in 2002. As the #1 pick, LJ was a standout.

Have you watched Seattle in the past month? Howard has been arguably their best player in several games. She’s averaging 13.2 ppg and is 2nd in the league in blocks and 13th in rebounding. Chelsea is really good, but Natasha has become really good too.

Yeah I've watched several Seattle games this year, most of them in the last month or so. Howard has been stellar this year, but looking at their careers so far, Gray is far and away the winner IMO.

If you go year by year, you have:
2014-win for Howard, Gray was out with an ACL
2015-win for Gray
2016-big win for Gray...look at each of their impact in the 5 game finals series
2017-huge win for Gray
2018-I'd still say win for Gray

 

[Wbbfan1]

Which Team made the better trade?

CT Sun Trade, Chelsea Gray and two draft picks ( Whitney Knight, Brianna Butler) to LA Sparks for Jonquell Jones and Draft Pick ( Jamie Weisner).

 

[bballnut90]

Not trying to hijack a thread but if anyone wants to look back at the class of 2001 they could be the best draft class of all time. Jackson was a legit superstar despite her health and one of the best players in the world. Catchings was the #3 pick but came back from a couple of major injuries to be one of the best of all time. Miller was #2 and was never a star but played several years, winning a title with Taurasi and Pondexter in Phoenix along with Penny Taylor, who was drafted that year as well.

I won't go pick by pick but this draft also contained Ruth Riley and Deanna Nolan, who won a title in Detroit. Katie Douglas played for many years as well and had a great career. Marie Ferdinand put up good numbers as well. Jackie Stiles had a good rookie year but then got injured and her body just broke. Tammy Sutton-Brown was a 2nd round choice but played for many seasons as well.

2001 will be a fun one to go over. Absolutely loaded. I think the 2000-01 season was arguably the most exciting ever when you looked at how good the top 10-15 teams were across the board.

Talent wise, you had the 2001 class as seniors, plus an incredible crop of freshmen. Each of Beard, Taurasi, Mazzante, Whalen, Powell, Shereka Wright, Vanessa Hayden, Ashley Robinson, Christi Thomas and Shalicia Hurns were double figure scorers (or close to) for very good programs.

 

[bballnut90]

Which Team made the better trade?

CT Sun Trade, Chelsea Gray and two draft picks ( Whitney Knight, Brianna Butler) to LA Sparks for Jonquell Jones and Draft Pick ( Jamie Weisner).

It looked like a draw at this time last year, but I'd say Sparks won since Gray was a huge in LA's title run in 2016 and their runner up run last year, while Jones had one fantastic year and has been mediocre in 2018.

 

[Reypl21]

Which Team made the better trade?

CT Sun Trade, Chelsea Gray and two draft picks ( Whitney Knight, Brianna Butler) to LA Sparks for Jonquell Jones and Draft Pick ( Jamie Weisner).

LA got won it all in 2016. I would say they won the trade

 

[MilfordHusky]

Yeah I've watched several Seattle games this year, most of them in the last month or so. Howard has been stellar this year, but looking at their careers so far, Gray is far and away the winner IMO.

If you go year by year, you have:
2014-win for Howard, Gray was out with an ACL
2015-win for Gray
2016-big win for Gray...look at each of their impact in the 5 game finals series
2017-huge win for Gray
2018-I'd still say win for Gray

I agree with 2016 and 2017. For 2018, I'd call it close and perhaps decided by who wins the championship. If L.A. wins the championship--which will make me very displeased--I'll concede. If Seattle wins, especially if Natasha plays well, I'll pick her.

I'm not saying I don't like Chelsea. I think she's really good. But Howard has become really good too.

 

[Carnac]

Wiese had a leg injury that kept her from playing most of this season. She had a couple big games as a rookie. Even when available she barely gets off the bench for LA. Seems like they don't consider her a PG so she's just another guard/wing that is buried on the depth chart. Kind of some duplication w/ Karlie Samuelson who also barely plays.

Keep in mind that like Minnesota, the Sparks are a "veteran" team. It's very difficult for rookies to make their roster. Look at the Sparks' starting line up. No young players!!! They have 35 years of experience between them. Chelsea Gray has the least number of years in the league with 3. Even if she was healthy, I doubt Weiss would have seen much playing time. HC Brian Agler like going with the proven vets. They don't make rookie mistakes.

 

[triaddukefan]

I thought about making a thread like this earlier in the summer..... But I was/am too lazy

No bias here... But there is no way on God's green earth would I have Howard listed above Ms. Gray... Again .. No bias on my part