Ray Allen........

[Huskies4ever]

.............once again hits the go-ahead basket, 20 pts - 11 in the 4th qrtr.

Mr. Clutch.

 

[UCweCONN]

He's hit the winning shot in several games already. He was a huge get for Miami.

 

[ChrisSmithsPart]

 

[hungry husky]

 

[rw005]

When Ray Allen makes a 3, Reggie Miller gets more and more mad. GOOD!

 

[ChrisSmithsPart]

 

[aceboon]

I'm still laughing at the posters on here who said Ray wouldn't fit in Miami because they don't run screens for him.

 

[ChrisSmithsPart]

I'm still laughing at the posters on here who said Ray wouldn't fit in Miami because they don't run screens for him.

Ray's becoming for the Heat what Robert "Big Shot Bob" Horry was for the Spurs & Lakers.

 

[aceboon]

I'm impressed with what he's been doing off the dribble. I know the ankle was a major issue last year but he seems to be putting the ball on the floor and scoring for himself or trying to make plays more than he did the past couple of seasons.

 

[Dogdeacon]

At the end of last year he was hurt, earlier in the year he put up some pretty good numbers particularly in games when Pierce was missing due to injury or coming in out-of-shape.

It is early and hindsight is 20-20, but Ray taking less money from the Heat is looking smarter every day. Garnett and Pierce are noticeably older and the Celtics miss Ray Allen more than Ray misses the Celtics. The issues with Rondo as the franchise cornerstone are still there. Love Rondo's game, but part of what makes him great is his arrogance and volatility. Maybe Avery Bradley rights the ship, but as of right now the Celtics are aging in dog years and it looks like their championship window was slammed shut by LeBron. Ray had to know this.

Its a bummer personally as I'd be able to watch Ray much more if he were still on the C's and the C's would be better, but I think Ray would be worse off in all on the court respects if he was still a Celtic.

 

[ctchamps]

At the end of last year he was hurt, earlier in the year he put up some pretty good numbers particularly in games when Pierce was missing due to injury or coming in out-of-shape.

It is early and hindsight is 20-20, but Ray taking less money from the Heat is looking smarter every day. Garnett and Pierce are noticeably older and the Celtics miss Ray Allen more than Ray misses the Celtics. The issues with Rondo as the franchise cornerstone are still there. Love Rondo's game, but part of what makes him great is his arrogance and volatility. Maybe Avery Bradley rights the ship, but as of right now the Celtics are aging in dog years and it looks like their championship window was slammed shut by LeBron. Ray had to know this.

Its a bummer personally as I'd be able to watch Ray much more if he were still on the C's and the C's would be better, but I think Ray would be worse off in all on the court respects if he was still a Celtic.

And yet he still probably would have stayed a Celtic if they didn't continue to threaten to shop him to weaker teams.

 

[champs99and04]

Three game winners this season already. He's shooting 50% from the field, 51% from three, and 85% from the line while putting up 13.4 per game in only 27 minutes. Remarkable efficiency. He has a 19.8 PER, which is the best he's posted since his Seattle days. I can see why Ray would rather play next to LeBron in crunch time than stand in the corner while Grandpa Pierce isolates at the elbow and hoists an off balance fade away as time expires.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Three game winners this season already. He's shooting 50% from the field, 51% from three, and 85% from the line while putting up 13.4 per game in only 27 minutes. Remarkable efficiency. He has a 19.8 PER, which is the best he's posted since his Seattle days. I can see why Ray would rather play next to LeBron in crunch time than stand in the corner while Grandpa Pierce isolates at the elbow and hoists an off balance fade away as time expires.

Miami is just a better fit for Ray across the board. At 37, he is still close to playing at an all-star level.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Three game winners this season already. He's shooting 50% from the field, 51% from three, and 85% from the line while putting up 13.4 per game in only 27 minutes. Remarkable efficiency. He has a 19.8 PER, which is the best he's posted since his Seattle days. I can see why Ray would rather play next to LeBron in crunch time than stand in the corner while Grandpa Pierce isolates at the elbow and hoists an off balance fade away as time expires.

Pierce has been an exceptionally good player for a long time. Honestly has had a better career than Ray Allen and he's younger. Pierce's game has always been as much craftiness and footwork as talent/athleticism. But now that he's losing speed those things need to make up for ever decreasing athleticism. One thing I've never understood about Pierce is that he has always had a doughy look. I know not everyone is going to be Karl Malone, but I think Pierce has really needed to add an entirely amped up level of conditioning to his game for a while now. If he doesn't do this I think he's out of the league within 3 years.

Pierce's shooting spiked to 47% in 09/10 then career best 49% but dropped to 44% last year and now sits at 42%. His other numbers are remarkably steady, but throughout his career it seems like he's always had 1 stinker shooting night every three/four games or so. Now it seems closer to every other night, a sure sign of aging. In his defense the Jeff Green backup plan has been an unmitigated disaster and Pierce is asked to do an awful lot.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Pierce has been an exceptionally good player for a long time. Honestly has had a better career than Ray Allen and he's younger. Pierce's game has always been as much craftiness and footwork as talent/athleticism. But now that he's losing speed those things need to make up for ever decreasing athleticism. One thing I've never understood about Pierce is that he has always had a doughy look. I know not everyone is going to be Karl Malone, but I think Pierce has really needed to add an entirely amped up level of conditioning to his game for a while now. If he doesn't do this I think he's out of the league within 3 years.

Pierce's shooting spiked to 47% in 09/10 then career best 49% but dropped to 44% last year and now sits at 42%. His other numbers are remarkably steady, but throughout his career it seems like he's always had 1 stinker shooting night every three/four games or so. Now it seems closer to every other night, a sure sign of aging. In his defense the Jeff Green backup plan has been an unmitigated disaster and Pierce is asked to do an awful lot.

It's debatable that PP has had a BETTER career than RA. It is very close. He has been fortunate to have Celtic loyalty on his side. He was never traded like Ray, and they have had similar accolades in their respective careers (not bashing PP, by the way - he has had an amazing career, just not necessarily better than RA).

 

[Huskies4ever]

Let me reiterate. In PP's early years in the league, he was the alpha male. He had Antoine Walker. In Ray's early years, he was part of a Big Three, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassel (and eventually Tim Tomas). PP wasn't part of a Big Three until Ray and KG joined him. Before Ray came to Boston, he was the alpha male in Seattle, and he had his highest ppg in that tenure.

 

[UConn990411]

It's not really debatable at all - Pierce has clearly had the better career.

Both will be 1st ball HOFers, though, and going down in history as the greatest 3-point shooter ever is pretty cool too.

 

[Husky68]

Pierce has been an exceptionally good player for a long time. Honestly has had a better career than Ray Allen and he's younger. Pierce's game has always been as much craftiness and footwork as talent/athleticism. But now that he's losing speed those things need to make up for ever decreasing athleticism. One thing I've never understood about Pierce is that he has always had a doughy look. I know not everyone is going to be Karl Malone, but I think Pierce has really needed to add an entirely amped up level of conditioning to his game for a while now. If he doesn't do this I think he's out of the league within 3 years.

Pierce's shooting spiked to 47% in 09/10 then career best 49% but dropped to 44% last year and now sits at 42%. His other numbers are remarkably steady, but throughout his career it seems like he's always had 1 stinker shooting night every three/four games or so. Now it seems closer to every other night, a sure sign of aging. In his defense the Jeff Green backup plan has been an unmitigated disaster and Pierce is asked to do an awful lot.

Better career? Hmmm. Looked at stats. Interesting both have averaged 36.8 minutes per game exactly. Here are stats Allen 1st and then Pierce:

Shooting % (includes 2's and 3's) 45.3% vs 44.7 %. Being forward and shooting much less 3's would have expected Pierce to be way better, in fact is worse.
3 Pt shooting % 40.1% vs. 37%. Expected this but 3.1 % is a lot for a career.
FT % 89.3% vs. 80.8%. Expected this but 8.5% better is a lot.
Rebounds per game. 4.2 vs. 6.o. Not sure that given positions the higher # by Pierce reflects well on him as stat might suggest. Reggie Miller averaged 3 rpg (Ray higher) and Pippen averaged 6.6 rebounds per game (Paul lower).
Assists per game. 3.5 vs. 3.8. Pierce better reflects good ball handling and lot of "playmaker touches" by Paul. Ray is a "Hamilton" type run around and get open guy, not of lot of cheap assists by throwing the ball out to Ray Allen (since he is Ray Allen).
Defense not sure how to differentiate. Ray has sure guarded the best players in the league (who are usually shooting guards). Paul has guarded the wing players.

Ray's career states compare favorably to Reggie Miller and except for overall FG % are in almost all cases better. Paul's stats compare favorably with Scottie Pippen (way better in 3's) except for assists where Scottie was a point forward and Scotties D was all league.

So you may see it as clear that Pierce has had a better career than Ray, not so clear to me.

 

[ChrisSmithsPart]

IMO it is very debatable...PP has had a better career primarily because he played on much better teams early in his career in Boston than ray with the Bucks. His teams competed with NJ for best in the East for a few years and Glen Rice as a #2 wasn't nearly the player Antoine Walker was in those days. Boston started losing later in PP's career while Ray never really played on a high expectation team until Boston. Now Ray is playing on the much higher caliber team at the twilight of his career while PP is playing on a team that should have been exploded last season & begun the rebuilding that's obviously coming soon. FWIW I thought last year they shouldn't have resigned KG & kept his $$, let Ray walk too, trade most valuable asset in rondo for more youth & let PP be the connection to the past for the rebuilt team. Oh well.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

It's debatable that PP has had a BETTER career than RA. It is very close. He has been fortunate to have Celtic loyalty on his side. He was never traded like Ray, and they have had similar accolades in their respective careers (not bashing PP, by the way - he has had an amazing career, just not necessarily better than RA).

Jesus, Ray wasn't traded by the Celtics.

And Pierce spent a long time playing on a lot of really ****** Celtics teams, and had his name shopped plenty of times, so spare the "Ray didn't have Celtic loyalty and Paul did" stuff.

 

[huskyniner]

Here's the video:

 

[Gurleyman]

Jesus, Ray wasn't traded by the Celtics.

And Pierce spent a long time playing on a lot of really ****** Celtics teams, and had his name shopped plenty of times, so spare the "Ray didn't have Celtic loyalty and Paul did" stuff.

I read that as PP has never been traded, period, since the C's were loyal to him, whereas Ray was dealt by the Bucks and Sonics. Don't mean to speak for him, but that was how I read his statement - I can see how it could be read differently, though.

 

[Gurleyman]

Here's the video:

I don't understand what the Spurs were doing there on D - they went to a zone and everyone collapsed. Dwayne Wade is wide open on the baseline too. Not really a good scheme if you leave two of the three most dangerous weapons on the floor unguarded.

 

[Gurleyman]

It's not really debatable at all - Pierce has clearly had the better career.

Both will be 1st ball HOFers, though, and going down in history as the greatest 3-point shooter ever is pretty cool too.

There's some debate to be had - Ray was actually better in the mid-00's when they were both in their primes (second-team All-NBA with the Sonics, and PP had a couple years where his shooting tanked). PP was the better all-around player early on, and then again while they were teammates.

 

[Huskies4ever]

I read that as PP has never been traded, period, since the C's were loyal to him, whereas Ray was dealt by the Bucks and Sonics. Don't mean to speak for him, but that was how I read his statement - I can see how it could be read differently, though.

Thanks, Gurleyman.