Ray Allen - Celtics vs Heat

[huskypantz]

Ray got a lot of heat from Celtics fans and the media for heading to Miami this past year. Last year the C's publicly state how they want Ray to stick around - yet sign Terry before he made a decision. Ray and Rondo had bad blood and I'm sure Bradley was hoping he'd be gone. Once Ray signed with the Heat, there was a ton of animosity toward him from players, media fans etc. How foolish they were - Ray made the smart move, taking a role on a team that won the championship for his second ring. Getting away from a PG who didn't want to pass to the best 3-point shooter of all time. And now we see the Celtics falling apart - Rivers is out the door. KG and Pierce need to move on so rebuilding can take place. And the funny part is that the C's shouldn't have resigned Allen anyway - too much money and too many years for a vet at the end of his career. Are there any C's fans who still blame Ray at this point?
http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/mia...ocused-bringing-back-ray-allen-2013-14-season

 

[KembaSlice]

Yep I do. Same way I feel about any Red Sox players that leave to sign with the Yankees. He had to do what is best for him, but signing with a conference rival (who you barely lost to in Game 7 the year bef0re) is a hard pill to swallow for Celtics fans. Had he taken less money to go sign with the Spurs or Thunder I think everyone would have probably wished him the best.

 

[champs99and04]

As a neutral observer, I think it's non-sensical that Ray would take any grief over this. But I can understand the Celtics fans perspective. He didn't owe the Celtics organization anything; I do think KG and Pierce have legitimate reason to feel betrayed, though. As for Celtics fans, they loved the KG/PP/Ray/Rondo group as much as any team since the Bird days. It had to feel like a kick in the groin for Ray to leave them for their biggest rival in the east.

 

[Gurleyman]

He had three suitors - but before the signed, the Celtics signed Terry, and the Clippers signed Crawford. His only logical choices were Miami or re-opening his search.

Spurs were set with Ginobli-Neal-Green-Leonard, and Presti (Thunder GM) shipped Ray out the moment he set foot in Seattle and I don't think a door was ever going to open there again. Maybe Indiana could have been a fit among contenders. Teams need to have the cap space or an exemption.

I know this has all been hased and rehashed, but I think it is clear that Ray wouldn't have made one whit of difference in Boston this year. And if Ray buckled to loyalty police, hed be sitting there in Boston now with a year left on his deal as everyone else bailed (which incidentally happened in 2005 in Seattle - McMillan and several free agents left)).

 

[Scoe]

Ray had to do what was best for him bottom line, fans can get upset at his decision but as long as hes happy thats all that matters. He was a FA and he wasnt happy anymore playing for the Celtics, money isnt everything. Pat Riley, Lebron and company showed Ray they were more interested then the Celtics were (before the Celtics offered Ray the dough).

Lebron is a better teammate then Rondo on and off the court, Lebron has had plenty of praise for Ray. Ray may have felt younger playing with younger teammates, knowing all he had to do was be a spot up shooter and play D, and he wasnt just along for the ride like Rashard Lewis was. He played the Robert Horry role for the Heat.

 

[Gurleyman]

It's sort of a side story with Lewis, too - he and Ray were the cornerstones of that Seattle team that made a good run in 2005, and good friends. Lewis got hurt and they lost in six to the eventual champions Spurs on a Duncan buzzer-beater, and the whole thing got blown up. Then Ray got hurt, the Sonics tanked and got Durant, so there was a chance for Seattle to make another run at it. But new management came in and then blew that up (wisely, in hindsight - built around youth and Durant was mature enough not to need veteran mentoring). So Ray was shipped to Boston, and Lewis went to Orlando. I'm sure they talked back in Seattle about how they wanted to win a title there, and they never got the chance, since Lewis was on the shelf in the only opportunity they had. They went against each other once in 2009 with Lewis and the Magic winning in seven (no KG). Always kind of figured those two would lament about the missed chance in Seattle.

Miami wasn't the same thing with Ray in a supporting role and Lewis merely along for the ride, but however token it may have been, they got that title together after all (even got to beat Duncan and the Spurs). I kept looking for someone to point out that sidestory in the media, but if they did, I missed it.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Are there any C's fans who still blame Ray at this point?

I can't speak for anyone else, but what has always struck me as inane about the whole situation, as rehashed on this board, is that Ray gets praised constantly for making a "basketball decision" in his best interests, while the Celtics get ripped for "disrespecting" Ray, when in reality somebody like Pierce was shopped a hell of a lot more often that Ray was, and had to suffer through some truly awful Celtics teams. I don't get why people seem incapable of simply saying that Ray made a decision that was best for him, and the Cs made a decision that they felt was best for them. It doesn't have to be Saint Ray being done dirty by the big, bad disloyal Celtics.

 

[Gurleyman]

I can't speak for anyone else, but what has always struck me as inane about the whole situation, as rehashed on this board, is that Ray gets praised constantly for making a "basketball decision" in his best interests, while the Celtics get ripped for "disrespecting" Ray, when in reality somebody like Pierce was shopped a hell of a lot more often that Ray was, and had to suffer through some truly awful Celtics teams. I don't get why people seem incapable of simply saying that Ray made a decision that was best for him, and the Cs made a decision that they felt was best for them. It doesn't have to be Saint Ray being done dirty by the big, bad disloyal Celtics.

I have no team loyalty, so I've always just been a Ray guy (and Rip guy, Caron guy, etc.). I never felt that way about the Celtics. I look at it the same way you do - it was pretty much time to break things up and get a little younger - and the C's were wise to look at Mayo. When the Big 3 first got together, it was looked at as a three-year run, and it ended up lasting five. And Ray was wise not to be blindly loyal to an organization, since he's been traded three times and coaches, management and franchises have all moved or changed over his whole career. He knows the drill.

Once Terry signed, that was that. Celtics had to make the move so they didn't get left with nobody in that role. Ray did what he had to do. Worked out fine for both - the C's got to get a younger piece in Lee for that roster spot. who could either develop or be a piece of trade bait, but he's a younger asset. The C's would have lost in the first round with Ray, and would have $6 mil tied into a 38-year old two guard with a team going nowhere as the old guard jumps ship.

 

[UChusky916]

I don't get why people seem incapable of simply saying that Ray made a decision that was best for him, and the Cs made a decision that they felt was best for them. It doesn't have to be Saint Ray being done dirty by the big, bad disloyal Celtics.

Because the Celtics organization disrespected Ray with their initial, pitiful offer. Then they went a step further and acquired Terry. Once the Celtics found out the Heat were involved to acquire Ray they threw money at him as if to say "SEE, WE REALLY WANT YOU!" The Celtics were willing to pay more to Ray just to keep him FROM THE HEAT than to genuinely keep him based on WHAT HE DESERVED.

I'm glad RayRay is a wise veteran and knew the games the Celtics were playing and went with the Heat. Ray felt betrayed by the Celtics and he realized he had to do what was best for him, which was signing with the Heat for a shot at another title. Ray wasn't in it for the money, and that's the point the Celtics missed. It was about respect.

It's just sour grapes by any celtics fans to say Ray betrayed the franchise. Celts fans should blame their organization for disrespecting Ray and forcing him to survey his options. It was simply a bad move by the organization. And it must be a little sweet for Ray to be polishing his ring while the Celtics organization is being disassembled and rebuilt. Also, he cemented his legacy even further with that game 6 title-saving shot. Can't be happier for Ray and it's clear he made the right decision for himself.

 

[Gurleyman]

The Celtics had the right to try to get younger. Ainge was a player the last time the C's went through this - they held on to everyone as long as they could, but then the window closes on getting anything back for the aging assets (with the caveat that tragedy prevented the Cs from a possible smoother transition).

It became clear to me watching the 2012 playoffs that Ray just couldn't get his shots any more - too many guys you can help off of, and nobody drawing double teams. Pierce is less imposing off the dribble, and you don't have to double KG. It didn't work as well in Miami as I thought it might, either. Wade's jumper disappearing means teams play off him and don't bring help either. Even though Terry isn't exactly young, he's better at creating his own shot.

As a Ray fan, I was hoping he didn't stay in Boston for the sake of hanging on for one last gig with the old band. I was actually hoping the C's wouldn't offer him a deal at all, and that the Clips would work ot (Ray and Caron together - sign me up!). It didn't play out that way, but in the end I'm happy that Ray got an iconic moment to end his career. He could have stayed and hit a game-winning three against the Knicks in the first round, but he's already done that.

 

[UConn990411]

Honestly, why the duck* are we still talking about this?

The Celtics didn't disrespect Ray, and Ray didn't betray the Celtics. Both sides did what they felt was best for them, which ultimately meant parting ways.

This topic needs to be given a rest already.

 

[Scoe]

Lebron recruited Ray pretty hard and has shown the utmost respect for him that is pretty hard to turn down.

 

[Gurleyman]

The topic is mainly coming back due to recent events - on and off the court. Ray won another ring and the Celtics seem to be fragmenting.

 

[selles]

I can't speak for anyone else, but what has always struck me as inane about the whole situation, as rehashed on this board, is that Ray gets praised constantly for making a "basketball decision" in his best interests, while the Celtics get ripped for "disrespecting" Ray, when in reality somebody like Pierce was shopped a hell of a lot more often that Ray was, and had to suffer through some truly awful Celtics teams. I don't get why people seem incapable of simply saying that Ray made a decision that was best for him, and the Cs made a decision that they felt was best for them. It doesn't have to be Saint Ray being done dirty by the big, bad disloyal Celtics.

No, no. Your second to last sentence is correct. But it was Ray who was mercilessly painted as Benedict Arnold by C's fans first and loudest. Hence the defensive reaction by his fans, many of whom reside on this board since it's a UConn board and all. The reaction by C's fans on boards like SOSH was downright offensive.

 

[uconnbill]

As a lifelong Celtic and Husky fan I was upset when he went to the Heat because I just don't like them. They are my new Lakers "another team I can't stand". So while I will always like Ray as a great Husky player I didn't root for the Heat nor could I.

 

[huskyniner]

There's no loyalty in the NBA nor should there be. It's a business. Unfortunately, this is ultimately why I'll never be able to root for one team. I'll just stick to rooting for certain players, namely, UConn alum.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I can't speak for anyone else, but what has always struck me as inane about the whole situation, as rehashed on this board, is that Ray gets praised constantly for making a "basketball decision" in his best interests, while the Celtics get ripped for "disrespecting" Ray, when in reality somebody like Pierce was shopped a hell of a lot more often that Ray was, and had to suffer through some truly awful Celtics teams. I don't get why people seem incapable of simply saying that Ray made a decision that was best for him, and the Cs made a decision that they felt was best for them. It doesn't have to be Saint Ray being done dirty by the big, bad disloyal Celtics.

I think you are 99% right, but the Ray supporters are often responding to pro-Celtics arguments and therefore they cite the trade rumors to debunk the myth that the Celtics were loyal to Ray. Gurleyman is exactly right and he, the Celtics and Ray Allen all saw that Ray was less effective as no double teaming was necessary for Pierce or Garnett and no help from Ray's man on Rondo. Heck the entire league is changing to recognize the increased value of three's and that you can't help off the best shooters. So the C's reasoning for signing Lee & Terry was understandable (though flawed in case of Terry were they madly misjudged his age/health AND grossly overpaid & bad luck with Lee although he was also overpaid) and Ray's reasoning for going to Miami always made sense and in hindsight with Heat's championship and Celtics blowup looks brilliant. If Ray had resigned with the Celtics they had a 2% at best chance at a championship and right now he'd either be marooned on rebuilding island with the C's or shipped to east bumfruck for draft picks and a very lackluster conclusion to his career. Instead he's now the proud owner of a 2nd championship and one of the top-10 shots in NBA history. Legacy means a lot and Ray made a chess move in that respect. I don't think anyone is noticing what freakin' jersey Ray wears into the HOF, Ray Allen wears a crown with three points.

Ainge and the Celtics really made a mistake with last year's free agent signings and trying to compete this past year. I suppose they had no choice as neither Garnett or Pierce would have signed off on a trade, but they essentially squandered 33-50% of the value of those two guys (1-3 seasons left each) and now the Celtics are looking at a very long rebuilding process that likely necessitates hitting rock bottom in 13-14

 

[nomar]

Ray got a lot of heat from Celtics fans and the media for heading to Miami this past year. Last year the C's publicly state how they want Ray to stick around - yet sign Terry before he made a decision. Ray and Rondo had bad blood and I'm sure Bradley was hoping he'd be gone. Once Ray signed with the Heat, there was a ton of animosity toward him from players, media fans etc. How foolish they were - Ray made the smart move, taking a role on a team that won the championship for his second ring. Getting away from a PG who didn't want to pass to the best 3-point shooter of all time. And now we see the Celtics falling apart - Rivers is out the door. KG and Pierce need to move on so rebuilding can take place. And the funny part is that the C's shouldn't have resigned Allen anyway - too much money and too many years for a vet at the end of his career. Are there any C's fans who still blame Ray at this point?
http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/mia...ocused-bringing-back-ray-allen-2013-14-season

I find this very unpersuasive. I'm not sure I made it 3 words in a row without seeing a factual error or an opinion that's open to debate.

 

[nomar]

Because the Celtics organization disrespected Ray with their initial, pitiful offer. Then they went a step further and acquired Terry. Once the Celtics found out the Heat were involved to acquire Ray they threw money at him as if to say "SEE, WE REALLY WANT YOU!" The Celtics were willing to pay more to Ray just to keep him FROM THE HEAT than to genuinely keep him based on WHAT HE DESERVED.

I'm glad RayRay is a wise veteran and knew the games the Celtics were playing and went with the Heat. Ray felt betrayed by the Celtics and he realized he had to do what was best for him, which was signing with the Heat for a shot at another title. Ray wasn't in it for the money, and that's the point the Celtics missed. It was about respect.

It's just sour grapes by any celtics fans to say Ray betrayed the franchise. Celts fans should blame their organization for disrespecting Ray and forcing him to survey his options. It was simply a bad move by the organization. And it must be a little sweet for Ray to be polishing his ring while the Celtics organization is being disassembled and rebuilt. Also, he cemented his legacy even further with that game 6 title-saving shot. Can't be happier for Ray and it's clear he made the right decision for himself.

The Celtics' offer had nothing to do with why Ray signed with Miami. That's revisionist history. Yes, he had his reasons to want out. That's fine. He made a decision that was right for him. I'm happy for him, really. And I admire the inclination for us UConn fans to go over the top in defense of our alums, but please realize that's what you're doing here.

 

[Gurleyman]

My personal guess - based on nothing factual whatsoever - is that Ray and the Celtics knew they were parting ways long before the public did. Ray acted like Boston was still an option so as not to give off an "I'm outta here" vibe publicly (and perhaps give more leverage in negotiations), the Celtics went out and got Terry because they already knew Ray was gone, Ray was essentially choosingbetween Miami and the Clippers all along, and Boston threw some sort of deal out there, knowing it wouldn't be accepted, so they could at least say they tried to keep him and didn't just let him walk to a rival (which became more necessary when the Clippers signed Crawford and withdrew their interest, meaning that Ray was likely landing in Miami). Even possible that Ray was already set on Miami and that the Clippers were never a serious contender (before Crawford signed, though - he would have been a great fit with only an aging Billups at the 2)..

All of the above is entirely my guesswork, based on nothing but hunches, but I do know that a lot of times, what comes our publicly in these things isn't the whole story.

 

[Waquoit]

It's funny how Doc Rivers hasn't garnered a fraction of the heat for leaving the Celtics that Ray has. Ray left to join the best team in the league. Doc left to join the worst franchise in the league. Ray was a free agent. Doc had just signed a huge new deal and was working the phones to leave.

These are going to be lean times for the Celtics. Ainge only won because a former teammate did him a favor. He is overmatched in GM land.

 

[bmayuc]

I find this very unpersuasive. I'm not sure I made it 3 words in a row without seeing a factual error or an opinion that's open to debate.

"Ray got a lot of heat from Celtics fans and the media for heading to Miami this past year."

That seems pretty factual


This entire ginned up controversy is insane. Here are some facts:

1. The Celtics had attempted to trade him several times in his last few years in Boston. This is not debatable, it is reported fact. Not hating on the celtics it is their job to put the best team they can on the floor.
2. The Celtics were/are a declining team. Anyone who watched the roster that they trotted out this year knows that. KG is a shell of his former self, PP is a warrior but is much less consistent putting points on the board.
3. The Heat will have a chance to win a title every single year that Lebron/Wade/Bosh suit up together.
4. Rays skills are declining, his role would have to adjust to that reality.
5. The Heat needed guys who can hit spot up 3s from the corner. Ray allen shoots over 50% on threes from the corner.
6. He took less money, to win titles.

Now, Opinion:

If anyone looks at those sets of facts and concludes that Ray Allen is a "traitor" to Boston, they are either to much of a fan to come to a logical reasoned response, or a blowhard.

Either way there is no controversy. Ray made the right call and it will extend his career and his legacy.

 

[huskypantz]

I find this very unpersuasive. I'm not sure I made it 3 words in a row without seeing a factual error or an opinion that's open to debate.

An opinion open to debate? No sherlock it's a message board. Enlighten me on the factual errors.