Ranking the Big East Coaches

[nelsonmuntz]

This entire thread was started so the OP can say Anderson is better than Hurley. I disagree, no one would trade Hurley for Anderson, including SJU.

LOLOLOL. I have watched all or parts of dozens of non-UConn Big East basketball games this season, and I like talking basketball.

This thread was not started to re-litigate some weird argument with you.

 

[freescooter]

The guy had URI in the NCAA tournament!! What more do they want?!

I said that too...got them there twice actually. And as I said it might be sour grapes. But I’ve heard it several times from Rhody folks. Otoh people said that Calhoun couldn’t win the big one at one time, too.

 

[freescooter]

I think Anderson is a very good coach and Given he was about their 5th choice he is far better than St Johns deserves. IBut St Johns is another place that is not likely to be a major power again. Yeah, I get it’s in a recruiting hotbed but it isn’t 1965 any more. Kids don’t want to be able to go home for momma’s meatballs. In fact momma is probably working full time and calling doordash. You can do that from the dorm.

 

[auror]

Cooley got PC to 5 straight NCAAs and would've been in last year. So that's 6 in 8 years counting this year. Not a lot of success once there (maybe an understatement), but a lot of programs would take that.

If Duke leaves, they'll be awful next year unless he gets some transfers, though.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

People talk about teams quitting on coaches. I think tonight was the first time I ever saw a coach quit on a team (Cooley). I kinda respect it. He clearly hated this team.

Yeah but you can fist bump the opposing coach after the game to at least give the perception of good sportsmanship to your players. Unless he was holding in explosive diarrhea or something, then I get it.

Showing 18-19-20 year old kids that it's okay to be a jerk when things don't go your way isn't a great life lesson. I'm trying to teach a 7 year-old the same thing now. (It's not going well)

 

[HuskyHawk]

Interesting. In my opinion, he appears to have done pretty well at Arkansas, not sure what more they can really expect. Glad he's part of the Big East now.

He was pretty solid at Missouri, moved to Arkansas and had high expectations are the "heir" to Nolan Richardson. I think he landed at Arkansas at about the time that the SEC became a tougher league. He was pretty good, but I had the general feeling that Arkansas viewed itself as one of the top 3, with UK and Florida. Instead Bama got better, Auburn got better, Tennessee got better etc.

Disagree with Nelson on easier recruiting at St. Johns. Arkansas was a better situation.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Cooley got PC to 5 straight NCAAs and would've been in last year. So that's 6 in 8 years counting this year. Not a lot of success once there (maybe an understatement), but a lot of programs would take that.

If Duke leaves, they'll be awful next year unless he gets some transfers, though.

I think PC is probably the worst job in the Big East. They have a little bit of history, most of which is fairly distant. They are close to Boston, but not in it. Rhode Island is OK for talent, but URI is in the state competing for the same kids to fill out the roster.

UConn is a state school, and every other Big East school except for Creighton is in a bigger metro area with more talent. I think getting PC to the tournament more years than he doesn't is a solid accomplishment by Cooley. He has made the postseason every year he has been at PC other than 11/12, and he would have made the tournament last year if the tournament wasn't cancelled.

PC had a down year, which is going to happen at a school like Providence.

 

[ucp990411]

Nearing the end of UConn's first Big East season in 8 years, my take on the Big East coaches:


Best of the best:

1) Jay Wright, Villanova - he has 2 more rings than the rest of them combined.


Very good:

2) Greg McDermott, Creighton - at least he was #2 until he started making offensive comments in his post-game pep talks. We will see what happens.

3) Mike Anderson, St. Johns - He is good, and will build this program quickly. NYC should be a lot easier to recruit to than Arkansas. Too bad St. Johns couldn't have gotten him 10 years ago.

4) Hurley, UConn - Team plays hard and he is doing well on recruiting trail. He has one of the more talented teams in the country this year. Time to deliver.

5) Kevin Willard, Seton Hall - I would have liked to see last year's team in the tournament, because I think they could play with anyone. He has turned Seton Hall into a perennial tournament team, but he has not been able to make the next step.

6) Ed Cooley, Providence - I like Cooley, but he has got to recruit better. On the other hand, Providence is a tough place to win and this may simply be as good as PC can get.

Unproven:

7) Patrick Ewing, Georgetown - clearly knows his X's and O's, and the players play hard for him. He has to deliver on the recruiting trail.

8) Lavall Jordan, Butler - solid game coach and they play hard for him, but the talent is pretty thin for a coach in his 4th year at a program.


Not working out:

9) Travis Steele, Xavier - small time. This is the second team in 3 years at Xavier that should have been a lock for the tournament and will not make it. Steele is an assistant pretending to be Head Coach.

10) David Leitao, Depaul - likely getting fired whenever his BET run ends, and it is hard to argue with results. He has been there 6 years and his best season is 7-11 in the Big East. Depaul has struggled since the late 80's, but Chicago is an incredible recruiting territory and there is no excuse for Depaul to be this bad. And honestly, watching Depaul play a few times this season, the talent is OK. He has .500 caliber players on a 4-13 team. They just play sloppy.

11) Wojo, Marquette - Can recruit and is a competitor, but he is in over his head running a big time program. 2 NCAA appearances in 7 years, and the team quit on him today. Marquette needs to find a big time coach.

I assume these are your thoughts, it is the first time I have heard that we have one of the most talented teams in the country. One coach I am not sold on is Kevin Willard. And I really like Lavall Jordan, his teams seem to play very hard for him but he does need to recruit better. They are very young this year. Looks to me like Ewing can coach, we need teams in the Big East to step it up and I think Geoegetown will.

 

[Pudge]

Interesting. In my opinion, he appears to have done pretty well at Arkansas, not sure what more they can really expect. Glad he's part of the Big East now.

Eric Musselman

 

[Pudge]

Providence and Seton Hall are in the same box. I cannot imagine either of them rising higher than the very best Cooley or Willard have taken them in the last 5 years. They have been damn good ... but then there is a ceiling. Jay Wright showed that you can rise in this version of the Big East; get the right kids and play a solid winning style. Creighton + Mack's Xavier have been special. SJU better hope Mike Anderson likes the Greater NYC life. and ... you don't need to have the 50 year worldview I do to see that Georgetown, Marquette and DePaul can be so much more; you simply can build a fanbase with infrastructure and win in those schools ... so those are your big underperformers.

Hurley is the deal ... he is the one you would bet on at the window for a big jump from here.

 

[mustafa]

Cooley got PC to 5 straight NCAAs and would've been in last year. So that's 6 in 8 years counting this year. Not a lot of success once there (maybe an understatement), but a lot of programs would take that.

If Duke leaves, they'll be awful next year unless he gets some transfers, though.

Rumor has it that Duke, Watson, Horchler are coming back. Add in a developing Breed a couple of underrated recruits, a transfer or two and they can be pretty good IN AN IDEAL SCENARIO. Of course, they also might get the same disaster they had this year.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

He was pretty solid at Missouri, moved to Arkansas and had high expectations are the "heir" to Nolan Richardson. I think he landed at Arkansas at about the time that the SEC became a tougher league. He was pretty good, but I had the general feeling that Arkansas viewed itself as one of the top 3, with UK and Florida. Instead Bama got better, Auburn got better, Tennessee got better etc.

Disagree with Nelson on easier recruiting at St. Johns. Arkansas was a better situation.

Why is Arkansas a better situation than St. Johns? Arkansas is not known for its deep talent pool, and the South is not exactly basketball country. Every SEC and Big 12 school recruits Memphis, St. Louis and Houston, so Arkansas has no advantage there.

There is also no tradition. No recruit was born the last time Arkansas was good.

 

[Waquoit]

LOLOLOL. I have watched all or parts of dozens of non-UConn Big East basketball games this season, and I like talking basketball.

This thread was not started to re-litigate some weird argument with you.

Hurley > Anderson, not even close

 

[freescooter]

Providence and Seton Hall are in the same box. I cannot imagine either of them rising higher than the very best Cooley or Willard have taken them in the last 5 years. They have been damn good ... but then there is a ceiling. Jay Wright showed that you can rise in this version of the Big East; get the right kids and play a solid winning style. Creighton + Mack's Xavier have been special. SJU better hope Mike Anderson likes the Greater NYC life. and ... you don't need to have the 50 year worldview I do to see that Georgetown, Marquette and DePaul can be so much more; you simply can build a fanbase with infrastructure and win in those schools ... so those are your big underperformers.

Hurley is the deal ... he is the one you would bet on at the window for a big jump from here.

I agree with you on Providence and Seton Hall. I’d put St Johns in that group too. Their upsides are pretty limited. Villanova is a very different school from those three. They and Xavier have more upside and a stronger commitment. You can say what you want about DePaul but when a program has not been good for almost 20 years, you have to wonder...I put them in that group of older urban Catholic schools, really inner city schools that just aren’t that attractive any more. As I say, it isn’t 1965 any more. They don’t have a ton of money to invest in facilities and all the o5her stuff that goes with successful programs. Their goals for basketball are pretty low too. Make the tournament. Not go deep. Not win it. And it is largely a commuter school. Hard to make it that attractive honestly.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Rumor has it that Duke, Watson, Horchler are coming back. Add in a developing Breed a couple of underrated recruits, a transfer or two and they can be pretty good IN AN IDEAL SCENARIO. Of course, they also might get the same disaster they had this year.

PC won't be terrible if all those guys come back, and I don't see the NBA in any of their futures. I doubt both Watson and Horchler return. I bet the return rate for 4th year seniors will be pretty low nationally because most of these guys will just want to move on with their lives.

PC wasn't that bad this year, and is another team that would have benefited from a few more non-conference games.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I agree with you on Providence and Seton Hall. I’d put St Johns in that group too. Their upsides are pretty limited. Villanova is a very different school from those three. They and Xavier have more upside and a stronger commitment. You can say what you want about DePaul but when a program has not been good for almost 20 years, you have to wonder...I put them in that group of older urban Catholic schools, really inner city schools that just aren’t that attractive any more. As I say, it isn’t 1965 any more. They don’t have a ton of money to invest in facilities and all the o5her stuff that goes with successful programs. Their goals for basketball are pretty low too. Make the tournament. Not go deep. Not win it. And it is largely a commuter school. Hard to make it that attractive honestly.

The Big East did go .500 against the other majors in the non-conference, so it can't be that bad.

 

[zls44]

Wojo is probably safe just because of his contract

Be Prepared For A Whole Lot More Of Steve Wojciechowski

Money is math and the math says Wojciechowski isn’t going anywhere, no matter what anyone thinks.

www.anonymouseagle.com

 

[UConnJim]

Arkansas has made 6 NCAA tournaments since 2000. There is no natural recruiting region, and the program history is really Nolan Richardson's history, not Arkansas.

Richardson and Tarkanian took advantage of the ridiculous enforcement around Prop 48, which funneled a lot of top players into JUCO's, where UNLV and Arkansas could scoop them up. By the late 90's, the top players were getting better support in high school and the top colleges had caught on to what Richardson and Tarkanian were doing, creating more competition for the JUCO's.

Richardson's success at Arkansas is a historical anomaly. It is probably the toughest job in the SEC. St. Johns is a much better platform. Even a moron like Steve Lavin was moderately successful at St. Johns.

I disagree about Arkansas basketball. The history of Arkansas basketball is not just Nolan Richardson. In fact, Eddie Sutton handed off a top performing program to Richardson in 1985 after going 260-75 and taking Arkansas to 9 NCAA tournaments in a row including 1 Final Four. The overall record of Arkansas basketball is 1710-967, 30th all-time in wins and T16 for winning percentage. Only Kentucky has more all time wins of schools in the SEC than Arkansas. They have gone to 6 Final Fours, 3 with Richardson. And, they generally are in the top 10 of attendance each year. As for recruiting, Arkansas is 5 hours to Dallas, 4.5 hours to Memphis, and 3.5 hours to Kansas City. For 2022, the state Arkansas has the 29th, 44th, 67th, and 147th ranked recruits.

As for JUCOs, yes there were some, but when Richardson won the NCAA championship, 4 of the 5 best players came out of HS: Corliss Williamson, Scotty Thurman, Clint McDaniel, and Darnell Robinson. In fact, out of the top 11 Arkansas basketball players of all-time, none were JUCOs: Sidney Moncrief, Corliss WIlliamson, Todd Day, Lee Mayberry, Alvin Robertson, Joe Johnson, Joe Kleine, Scotty Thurman, Oliver Miller, Marvin Delph, Darrell Walker.

Arkansas is a really good basketball program with a proud history, good facilities, and great fan support. They have high expectations for their program and even though Anderson is a good coach, he could not get them to compete for SEC championships. In fact, Anderson has won 1 conference tournament championship in 17 seasons not including St. John's.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I disagree about Arkansas basketball. The history of Arkansas basketball is not just Nolan Richardson. In fact, Eddie Sutton handed off a top performing program to Richardson in 1985 after going 260-75 and taking Arkansas to 9 NCAA tournaments in a row including 1 Final Four. The overall record of Arkansas basketball is 1710-967, 30th all-time in wins and T16 for winning percentage. Only Kentucky has more all time wins of schools in the SEC than Arkansas. They have gone to 6 Final Fours, 3 with Richardson. And, they generally are in the top 10 of attendance each year. As for recruiting, Arkansas is 5 hours to Dallas, 4.5 hours to Memphis, and 3.5 hours to Kansas City. For 2022, the state Arkansas has the 29th, 44th, 67th, and 147th ranked recruits.

As for JUCOs, yes there were some, but when Richardson won the NCAA championship, 4 of the 5 best players came out of HS: Corliss Williamson, Scotty Thurman, Clint McDaniel, and Darnell Robinson. In fact, out of the top 11 Arkansas basketball players of all-time, none were JUCOs: Sidney Moncrief, Corliss WIlliamson, Todd Day, Lee Mayberry, Alvin Robertson, Joe Johnson, Joe Kleine, Scotty Thurman, Oliver Miller, Marvin Delph, Darrell Walker.

Arkansas is a really good basketball program with a proud history, good facilities, and great fan support. They have high expectations for their program and even though Anderson is a good coach, he could not get them to compete for SEC championships. In fact, Anderson has won 1 conference tournament championship in 17 seasons not including St. John's.

Arkansas basketball is the BEST!!!!!!!! Except for the last 20+ years, where it has kind of sucked.

Should Arkansas be using Final Four appearances during World War II as indicative of the quality of the program? Do you realize that most of the best American athletes of college age were off saving the world from fascism at the time?

 

[Pudge]

I agree with you on Providence and Seton Hall. I’d put St Johns in that group too. Their upsides are pretty limited. Villanova is a very different school from those three. They and Xavier have more upside and a stronger commitment. You can say what you want about DePaul but when a program has not been good for almost 20 years, you have to wonder...I put them in that group of older urban Catholic schools, really inner city schools that just aren’t that attractive any more. As I say, it isn’t 1965 any more. They don’t have a ton of money to invest in facilities and all the o5her stuff that goes with successful programs. Their goals for basketball are pretty low too. Make the tournament. Not go deep. Not win it. And it is largely a commuter school. Hard to make it that attractive honestly.

Time out - DePaul

They HAVE a brand new $173m Wintrust Arena. Downtown. Next to Soldier Field. They ain't playing in the (yawn) suburbs anymore. That's just not random - exactly the tight right move for a Program. Transformative. So ... don't pull that tired argument out. It's ideally located.

Wintrust Arena​

Wintrust Arena at McCormick Square, previously referred to as DePaul Arena or McCormick Place Events Center, is a 10,387-seat sports venue in Chicago's Near South Sidecommunity area that opened in 2017.

 

[djct1999]

Hurley has one of the most talented teams in the country? I'm going to suggest a lot of people might disagree with that statement

Time to deliver? His third year? And his second year was stopped short just as his team was jelling

I like our team, I like the job Hurley is doing, I'm looking forward to this post season

100%. Hurley is absolutely delivering. Nelson's list is a fair one, but like every list, very subjective. Jay Wright is without question No. 1. One can easily argue(I actually would argue) that Hurley is already No. 2.

 

[UConnJim]

Arkansas basketball is the BEST!!!!!!!! Except for the last 20+ years, where it has kind of sucked.

Should Arkansas be using Final Four appearances during World War II as indicative of the quality of the program? Do you realize that most of the best American athletes of college age were off saving the world from fascism at the time?

Yet, you ignored the other points. For comparison, Arkansas has been to 7 NCAAs in the last 20 years and St. John's has been to 4. All time, Arkansas has been to 32 NCAAs tied for 17th with UConn and Oklahoma. Arkansas is more of a basketball school than football school.

 

[freescooter]

The Big East did go .500 against the other majors in the non-conference, so it can't be that bad.

Meaningless stat without digging down into who played who.Take Villanova. They went 3-1 but the 3 wins included BC and ASU and Texas. The loss was to Virginia Tech.

Creighton went1-1. Beat Nebraska but lost to a pretty good Kansas. We could pick 5 guys off this Board and go 4-2 against those 6. Well maybe 3-3 if they made us take Nelson. When the top of your league beats a bottom feeder from another it doesn’t prove much. Marquette at 2-2 with wins over UNC and Wisconsin is kind of inexplicable I’ll grant you. Considering they stink

 

[Zissou]

Maybe rank Ewing higher based on current events.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nearing the end of UConn's first Big East season in 8 years, my take on the Big East coaches:


Best of the best:

1) Jay Wright, Villanova - he has 2 more rings than the rest of them combined.


Very good:

2) Greg McDermott, Creighton - at least he was #2 until he started making offensive comments in his post-game pep talks. We will see what happens.

3) Mike Anderson, St. Johns - He is good, and will build this program quickly. NYC should be a lot easier to recruit to than Arkansas. Too bad St. Johns couldn't have gotten him 10 years ago.

4) Hurley, UConn - Team plays hard and he is doing well on recruiting trail. He has one of the more talented teams in the country this year. Time to deliver.

5) Kevin Willard, Seton Hall - I would have liked to see last year's team in the tournament, because I think they could play with anyone. He has turned Seton Hall into a perennial tournament team, but he has not been able to make the next step.

6) Ed Cooley, Providence - I like Cooley, but he has got to recruit better. On the other hand, Providence is a tough place to win and this may simply be as good as PC can get.

Unproven:

7) Patrick Ewing, Georgetown - clearly knows his X's and O's, and the players play hard for him. He has to deliver on the recruiting trail.

8) Lavall Jordan, Butler - solid game coach and they play hard for him, but the talent is pretty thin for a coach in his 4th year at a program.


Not working out:

9) Travis Steele, Xavier - small time. This is the second team in 3 years at Xavier that should have been a lock for the tournament and will not make it. Steele is an assistant pretending to be Head Coach.

10) David Leitao, Depaul - likely getting fired whenever his BET run ends, and it is hard to argue with results. He has been there 6 years and his best season is 7-11 in the Big East. Depaul has struggled since the late 80's, but Chicago is an incredible recruiting territory and there is no excuse for Depaul to be this bad. And honestly, watching Depaul play a few times this season, the talent is OK. He has .500 caliber players on a 4-13 team. They just play sloppy.

11) Wojo, Marquette - Can recruit and is a competitor, but he is in over his head running a big time program. 2 NCAA appearances in 7 years, and the team quit on him today. Marquette needs to find a big time coach.

Standing by this list. Wojo and Leitao canned, and wheels are coming off at Xavier.

 

[SportsFan88]

Some of these takes were hilarious

 

[gtcam]

Yet, you ignored the other points. For comparison, Arkansas has been to 7 NCAAs in the last 20 years and St. John's has been to 4. All time, Arkansas has been to 32 NCAAs tied for 17th with UConn and Oklahoma. Arkansas is more of a basketball school than football school.

If you asked 99.9% of Arkansas fans if they a basketball school they would laugh at you - they hang their lives and tears on football, baseball and women's softball - mens basketball would come in a distant 4th
Sure there are diehard Arkansas mens basketball fans but they are the minority - look at where the athletic and alumni money goes and it's not close

 

[Greg]

Nearing the end of UConn's first Big East season in 8 years, my take on the Big East coaches:


Best of the best:

1) Jay Wright, Villanova - he has 2 more rings than the rest of them combined.


Very good:

2) Greg McDermott, Creighton - at least he was #2 until he started making offensive comments in his post-game pep talks. We will see what happens.

3) Mike Anderson, St. Johns - He is good, and will build this program quickly. NYC should be a lot easier to recruit to than Arkansas. Too bad St. Johns couldn't have gotten him 10 years ago.

4) Hurley, UConn - Team plays hard and he is doing well on recruiting trail. He has one of the more talented teams in the country this year. Time to deliver.

5) Kevin Willard, Seton Hall - I would have liked to see last year's team in the tournament, because I think they could play with anyone. He has turned Seton Hall into a perennial tournament team, but he has not been able to make the next step.

6) Ed Cooley, Providence - I like Cooley, but he has got to recruit better. On the other hand, Providence is a tough place to win and this may simply be as good as PC can get.

Unproven:

7) Patrick Ewing, Georgetown - clearly knows his X's and O's, and the players play hard for him. He has to deliver on the recruiting trail.

8) Lavall Jordan, Butler - solid game coach and they play hard for him, but the talent is pretty thin for a coach in his 4th year at a program.


Not working out:

9) Travis Steele, Xavier - small time. This is the second team in 3 years at Xavier that should have been a lock for the tournament and will not make it. Steele is an assistant pretending to be Head Coach.

10) David Leitao, Depaul - likely getting fired whenever his BET run ends, and it is hard to argue with results. He has been there 6 years and his best season is 7-11 in the Big East. Depaul has struggled since the late 80's, but Chicago is an incredible recruiting territory and there is no excuse for Depaul to be this bad. And honestly, watching Depaul play a few times this season, the talent is OK. He has .500 caliber players on a 4-13 team. They just play sloppy.

11) Wojo, Marquette - Can recruit and is a competitor, but he is in over his head running a big time program. 2 NCAA appearances in 7 years, and the team quit on him today. Marquette needs to find a big time coach.

I would make Cooley four and Ewing 5 right now. Willard is too much of a dirt bag IMO and Hurley is a poor x's and O's guy to be in the top tier. Too good of a recruiter to be in the bottom, but I can't think of many times when in game adjustments equaled a win.

 

[Psolo12]

I would make Cooley four and Ewing 5 right now. Willard is too much of a dirt bag IMO and Hurley is a poor x's and O's guy to be in the top tier. Too good of a recruiter to be in the bottom, but I can't think of many times when in game adjustments equaled a win.

You would have Ewing and Cooley over Hurley when he beat them 3/4 games this year?

 

[gtcam]

To be a top tier coach you have to have the full package but most importantly you need to coach to wins. Some HCs do very little of the hands on recruitment until actually sitting down with the recruit and/or family so I discount that area a bit but it is important to be an effective closer.
Dan Hurley is obviously a great closer
Another must is to be able to communicate to and gain the respect of your players. Jay Wright, Mike Anderson, Dan Hurley and Cooley I feel shine in this area.
Right now the only coach in the NBE that hits all the buckets, based on NBE results, is Jay Wright.
I think Mike Anderson has hit them all over his career but St Johns has got to achieve consecutive winning seasons.
Dan Hurley has a way to grow within the in game coaching area but he is in the top 5 - I feel he and Cooley are on level ground there.
I would have included McDermott but feel he may be gone after Creighton loses in the NCAAs