Random thoughts about all this transfer business

[tomcat]

Yeah, it's the wave of the future and there certainly are cases when it's necessary, but I don't like it much. In the first place, the foundational principle of WCBB, in my humble opinion, is that you have players together for four years. They learn to work together as a team, achieving the basketball equivalent of completing each other's sentences. Four and done.

Let's leave early and mid-college career player transfers like AEH out of the discussion for a moment. A great case can be made for players transferring because they're not a great fit for the program, the coach leaves, etc. etc.

It's these fifth year players that bother me. You can make a case that if a player has eligibility left, why shouldn't she go after a Master's Degree somewhere else and play basketball as well. In the case of a certain former UConn center who went to George Mason, it makes sense because she was, let's face it, so much better than the rest of the team that she pulled them all upwards.

But they all seem like so many hired guns. And if this becomes a trend, the pracice of stocking up on hired guns will, IMHO, diminish the sport.

So let's consider the two players who are rumored to be considering UConn. Both are talented, one (according to sources) wildly so. But the situation is not the same as it was with Azura, who had a whole season to learn the UConn system (and even then, when it came time to use what she had learned in real-game situations, had trouble the first third to half of the season). Unless they are surprisingly flexible, they won't have enough time to really adapt to the team because they are truly one and done.

Clearly Geno will expect them to adapt to him and his team, not the other way around, and that's the right attitude to have. And if they can't do that, they will be on the bench and unhappy that they wasted their final year, when they could be showcasing their talents for the pros.

Going to UConn is a risk for the players and a risk for the team. As I look back on what I'v written, it seems to be an argument why players should not do their final year at UConn, and instead sign on with some other high-visibility team where there will be less pressure to change styles. EVn though changing their style, if they can do so within the year, will make them a hotter commodity for the pros.

 

[LasVegasYank]

In a sense, all recruits are "hired guns."

I'll leave it to the coaching staff to determine what hole(s) need to be addressed and how best for the team to accomplish that.

Sometimes it's just best to let the pros run the business.

 

[Sifaka]

Not disputing anything your wrote, but I look at it just a little differently.
If—obviously a big if—all three sides of the triangle are comfortable (coaches, candidate, current team members) and an offer is extended and accepted, we have a parallel to a highly talented entering freshman. Not an exact equivalent, because the transfer is more mature and experienced, but broadly similar in terms of the need to learn the new team's system and develop good on-court chemistry with teammates.

Some freshman learn fast enough to become good contributors, earning lots of minutes. Others do less well, or even badly. It's a calculated risk by GA & Co. as well as by the young lady. If it works well, it not only helps the team short term; it also relieves some pressure on underclass team members who need more time to develop.

 

[CocoHusky]

A completely confounding and not logical agument when you choose to ignore the very fact that Natalie Butler was herself a transfer into UCONN. So it was OK for Natalie Butler to transfer from UCONN but it not OK for her to transfer in? BTW if it is truly "these fifth year players that bother me" you have wasted a post since neither Danni Williams or Anriel Howard fit that description.

 

[trisailin]

I am not on board with the trajectory of this thread. Last I checked, they are called STUDENT-ATHLETES. Why disparage those that choose to change universities due to STUDENT (as in academic program) position of the former institution. Natalie left because UCONN no longer offered a masters program in her stated academic endeavor. That was her stated reason - I believe it. STUDENT being the operative word.
Many many (maybe most) grad students are NOT going to the same university for grad school as they attended for under-grad. In fact in some disciplines (academia), employers consider getting degrees from multiple schools a positive.
The two (potential) transfers in I've read both have stated a desire for "media" thing - something which UCONN seemingly does quite well. I'm fairly sure your "hired gun" situation does exist but I'm of the mind that it is far far less of an incentive that you are suggesting.

 

[j66kicker]

I am not on board with the trajectory of this thread. Last I checked, they are called STUDENT-ATHLETES. Why disparage those that choose to change universities due to STUDENT (as in academic program) position of the former institution. Natalie left because UCONN no longer offered a masters program in her stated academic endeavor. That was her stated reason - I believe it. STUDENT being the operative word.
Many many (maybe most) grad students are NOT going to the same university for grad school as they attended for under-grad. In fact in some disciplines (academia), employers consider getting degrees from multiple schools a positive.
The two (potential) transfers in I've read both have stated a desire for "media" thing - something which UCONN seemingly does quite well. I'm fairly sure your "hired gun" situation does exist but I'm of the mind that it is far far less of an incentive that you are suggesting.

I'm guessing that at this level the "hired gun" component is 80% and the "student athlete" is 20%. Natalie Butler transferred so she could play and get drafted in the WNBA. It worked. No way she was going anywhere if she had been starring at UConn. Stewie's degree was in the individualized major of "Sport and Society." Really??

 

[Golden Husky]

Yeah, it's the wave of the future and there certainly are cases when it's necessary, but I don't like it much. In the first place, the foundational principle of WCBB, in my humble opinion, is that you have players together for four years. They learn to work together as a team, achieving the basketball equivalent of completing each other's sentences. Four and done.

Let's leave early and mid-college career player transfers like AEH out of the discussion for a moment. A great case can be made for players transferring because they're not a great fit for the program, the coach leaves, etc. etc.

It's these fifth year players that bother me. You can make a case that if a player has eligibility left, why shouldn't she go after a Master's Degree somewhere else and play basketball as well. In the case of a certain former UConn center who went to George Mason, it makes sense because she was, let's face it, so much better than the rest of the team that she pulled them all upwards.

But they all seem like so many hired guns. And if this becomes a trend, the pracice of stocking up on hired guns will, IMHO, diminish the sport.

So let's consider the two players who are rumored to be considering UConn. Both are talented, one (according to sources) wildly so. But the situation is not the same as it was with Azura, who had a whole season to learn the UConn system (and even then, when it came time to use what she had learned in real-game situations, had trouble the first third to half of the season). Unless they are surprisingly flexible, they won't have enough time to really adapt to the team because they are truly one and done.

Clearly Geno will expect them to adapt to him and his team, not the other way around, and that's the right attitude to have. And if they can't do that, they will be on the bench and unhappy that they wasted their final year, when they could be showcasing their talents for the pros.

Going to UConn is a risk for the players and a risk for the team. As I look back on what I'v written, it seems to be an argument why players should not do their final year at UConn, and instead sign on with some other high-visibility team where there will be less pressure to change styles. EVn though changing their style, if they can do so within the year, will make them a hotter commodity for the pros.

UConn had the best record and--arguably--the best teams each of the past two seasons but there's no asterisk for that and there won't be an asterisk if Howard and Williams help the Huskies earn a 12th national championship next season.

In a sport so fickle that titles can be won or lost on the single revolution of a basketball, why should UConn unilaterally disarm and refuse to pursue players the coaching staff believes will help the team?

 

[Florida Fan]

Yeah, it's the wave of the future and there certainly are cases when it's necessary, but I don't like it much. In the first place, the foundational principle of WCBB, in my humble opinion, is that you have players together for four years. They learn to work together as a team, achieving the basketball equivalent of completing each other's sentences. Four and done.

Let's leave early and mid-college career player transfers like AEH out of the discussion for a moment. A great case can be made for players transferring because they're not a great fit for the program, the coach leaves, etc. etc.

It's these fifth year players that bother me. You can make a case that if a player has eligibility left, why shouldn't she go after a Master's Degree somewhere else and play basketball as well. In the case of a certain former UConn center who went to George Mason, it makes sense because she was, let's face it, so much better than the rest of the team that she pulled them all upwards.

But they all seem like so many hired guns. And if this becomes a trend, the pracice of stocking up on hired guns will, IMHO, diminish the sport.

So let's consider the two players who are rumored to be considering UConn. Both are talented, one (according to sources) wildly so. But the situation is not the same as it was with Azura, who had a whole season to learn the UConn system (and even then, when it came time to use what she had learned in real-game situations, had trouble the first third to half of the season). Unless they are surprisingly flexible, they won't have enough time to really adapt to the team because they are truly one and done.

Clearly Geno will expect them to adapt to him and his team, not the other way around, and that's the right attitude to have. And if they can't do that, they will be on the bench and unhappy that they wasted their final year, when they could be showcasing their talents for the pros.

Going to UConn is a risk for the players and a risk for the team. As I look back on what I'v written, it seems to be an argument why players should not do their final year at UConn, and instead sign on with some other high-visibility team where there will be less pressure to change styles. EVn though changing their style, if they can do so within the year, will make them a hotter commodity for the pros.

Natalie comes and Natalie goes; no big deal. Z comes, sits out the year, sits on the bench when we most needed her, and leaves. Apples and oranges. We need a big-big with hands, length, speed. And we need a bench that can score and play defense so our starters don't get beaten into late-season emergency rooms. ND got a pivotal, no-sit post player, who Muffet stated categorically was the difference-maker for their championship run. If we are going to match-up with them and other hired-gun teams, we may have to temporarily shift gears. Otherwise, I can wait and see how Geno plays the cards he's been dealt. But no more am I going to exult over 100-point, conference-schedule blow-outs, unless their best 7-ft post player declares "hardship" and transfers to Storrs.

 

[biobioprof]

I'm not in favor of additional restrictions on players moving around, even though I think it's sometimes a bad idea for them to do it. Making mistakes and learning from them - or not - is part of life.

I do wonder how much this quote from a wise coach is relevant to the transfer trends. Some here will recognize it:

“Kids inherently want to be good teammates,” he said. “I really believe that with all my heart. Most kids, when they are on a team, I guarantee you, go watch any seven-year-olds or eight-year-olds, they want to be good teammates. You watch them play.”

When they get older and starting having a little bit of success, and the parents get involved, they become not so great teammates because they are told that you are not going to get anywhere unless you shine.”

 

[ZoneKing]

Stewie's degree was in the individualized major of "Sport and Society." Really??

WHOA! Whoa Whoah.

look @tomcat gave TBY his thoughts. Some agree, some not. Okay. This is a board for thoughts and communication, right UConn fans?

But now @j66kicker, we're going to disparage - subtle or not - Stewie for her degree choice? Is that really your intention?

Are we going to go through the list of which degree each student athlete is pursuing and evaluate that?

Okay, I'm done. Done with those negative thoughts.

I'm SURE that was NOT your intention. Especially with MY upstate New York basketball Godess: Breanna Stewart!

 

[GoingPostal]

I think the use of the term "hired guns" was unfortunate. The practice of fifth year players transferring to another university is well established and accepted. Those students are seeking advance degrees in their chosen field and hoping to play a sport they have dedicated much time, effort, and joy into. As for the two prospective transfers from TAM fitting in at UConn I would be surprised if the coaches haven't already done their due diligence and determined that one or both would be excellent fits for the program. They would be remiss otherwise. With only one year of eligibility remaining each player would have had to show that they can adapt to the Huskies style of play quickly and provide immediate help. Anything less would be a mistake for the two players and the Huskies.

 

[seeya27]

I have no issues whatsoever with fifth year transfers in either the men's or women's game. As a student athlete you made a 4-year commitment to an institution and honored it. It is your right to move on.

Now you have 3 choices: stay put at your current program; move into the real world (as a professional athlete, to get a paying job); OR get a graduate degree at a different school, all the while improving your chances for becoming a professional athlete with a new coach.

I have much more concerns about "one and dones" in the mens game...where everyone knows you are a hired gun for a single season. It's totally within the students right to jump ship, but it does begin to break down the college basketball model.

All that said: in the women's game if a 5th year student wants to earn a grad degree and improve their skills under a different coach, I would support them 100%. To me, the bigger issue is whether Geno wants a 5th year player who only experiences his system for one year.

 

[DaddyChoc]

according to JPM, Geno doesn't have a history of pursuing/accepting transfers. Call these 2 whatever you want, it's unusual for UConn to be going this route lately... even with Butler, who decides they want to go to UConn. I thought Geno decides who he wants on his team. Has he even denied a transfers request to become a Husky. I'm sure he was excited about Z... and pissed that she left, wonder if he'll have 2nd thoughts after Zs departure or is he adjusting to today's basketball?

 

[seeya27]

according to JPM, Geno doesn't have a history of pursuing/accepting transfers. Call these 2 whatever you want, it's unusual for UConn to be going this route lately... even with Butler, who decides they want to go to UConn. I thought Geno decides who he wants on his team. Has he even denied a transfers request to become a Husky. I'm sure he was excited about Z... and pissed that she left, wonder if he'll have 2nd thoughts after Zs departure or is he adjusting to today's basketball?

Is there any evidence that Geno was upset about Z? In terms of what was available in the WNBA draft and her position within it, it was an intelligent tactical decision in my opinion.

 

[tomcat]

I have no issues whatsoever with fifth year transfers in either the men's or women's game. As a student athlete you made a 4-year commitment to an institution and honored it. It is your right to move on.

Now you have 3 choices: stay put at your current program; move into the real world (as a professional athlete, to get a paying job); OR get a graduate degree at a different school, all the while improving your chances for becoming a professional athlete with a new coach.

I have much more concerns about "one and dones" in the mens game...where everyone knows you are a hired gun for a single season. It's totally within the students right to jump ship, but it does begin to break down the college basketball model.

All that said: in the women's game if a 5th year student wants to earn a grad degree and improve their skills under a different coach, I would support them 100%. To me, the bigger issue is whether Geno wants a 5th year player who only experiences his system for one year.

Which, I guess, was sorta my point. Not only experiences his system but whether that player can possibly succeed in it. As for whether UConn has taken transfers, does anyone remember Rita Williams? How about Tihana Abrlic, to cite one who did not work out even a little bit. Look, I'm not against transfers. JUCO players like these, having proven themselves, have every right to play at a four-year institution. There are other, unfortunate circumstances where transferring is the only choice for a player. But now, with some players seemingly transferring just because they can, it doesn't mean I have to like it. That's all. Just one stubborn person's opinion.

 

[JordyG]

Okay. I'm going to pat myself on the back again.

Years ago I posted on the BY that transfers would soon become a cottage industry. I said then that I was ambivalent about this future of revolving door athletes. But noting the present times which is ruled by self absorption, short attention spans, the changing attitudes toward disciplinary coaching styles, how athletes are recruited and then commit to programs at younger and younger ages, and the way these young athletes increasingly feel entitled at younger ages, I thought it was inevitable. No, increasing transfers are not the wave of the future, it is the current. How the NCAA responds to this is anyone's guess.

 

[j66kicker]

WHOA! Whoa Whoah.

look @tomcat gave TBY his thoughts. Some agree, some not. Okay. This is a board for thoughts and communication, right UConn fans?

But now @j66kicker, we're going to disparage - subtle or not - Stewie for her degree choice? Is that really your intention?

Are we going to go through the list of which degree each student athlete is pursuing and evaluate that?

Okay, I'm done. Done with those negative thoughts.

I'm SURE that was NOT your intention. Especially with MY upstate New York basketball Godess: Breanna Stewart!

Not my intention to disparage anyone. If someone is an absolute savant in anything worthwhile, then they should major in that subject. In this case, basketball. I am in full support

 

[j66kicker]

I have no issues whatsoever with fifth year transfers in either the men's or women's game. As a student athlete you made a 4-year commitment to an institution and honored it. It is your right to move on.

Now you have 3 choices: stay put at your current program; move into the real world (as a professional athlete, to get a paying job); OR get a graduate degree at a different school, all the while improving your chances for becoming a professional athlete with a new coach.

I have much more concerns about "one and dones" in the mens game...where everyone knows you are a hired gun for a single season. It's totally within the students right to jump ship, but it does begin to break down the college basketball model.

All that said: in the women's game if a 5th year student wants to earn a grad degree and improve their skills under a different coach, I would support them 100%. To me, the bigger issue is whether Geno wants a 5th year player who only experiences his system for one year.

Howard will be a 4th-year player.

 

[ZoneKing]

If someone is an absolute savant in anything worthwhile, then they should major in that subject.

@jjkicker: I like that! Stewie is a savant. And she majored in her God given talent at UConn, NOT Syracuse! LOL.

 

[j66kicker]

@jjkicker: I like that! Stewie is a savant. And she majored in her God given talent at UConn, NOT Syracuse! LOL.

Yes a true savant should choose the best place to study their art and hone their talent.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Is there any evidence that Geno was upset about Z? In terms of what was available in the WNBA draft and her position within it, it was an intelligent tactical decision in my opinion.

Maybe an intelligent tactical decision, but a questionable strategic one.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

It bothers me that so many people transfer, but I still don't think restrictions are appropriate. In fact, I don't think regular transfers should have to sit for a season. Coaches changing jobs don't have to take a year off and regular students who transfer don't either.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Is there any evidence that Geno was upset about Z? In terms of what was available in the WNBA draft and her position within it, it was an intelligent tactical decision in my opinion.

any that says he's not... do we really think he'd admit it, poster here won't even admit it here on the Boneyard and they have no dog in the Z/WNBA fight. I'm pissed cause I think it changed the recruiting process for UConn

 

[mbr33ct]

It bothers me that so many people transfer, but I still don't think restrictions are appropriate. In fact, I don't think regular transfers should have to sit for a season. Coaches changing jobs don't have to take a year off and regular students who transfer don't either.

How about this simple solution, but I'm sure I will be told otherwise, (from an NCAA rule book perspective) for this would be, if a coach leaves for another school, and players want to transfer for reason the coach they thought was going to coach them is no longer at that institution, they can transfer out to another school without sitting out one year.

 

[willtalk]

To try to equate student athletes with coach's is absurd. One is still in training while the other is supposedly selling their expertise. If anyone thinks that a student athlete's athletic ability would have value other than playing for the established brand provided by the schools student or alumni following then all they have to do is count the number of simi pro leagues that make money in the USA. People go to see local or lesser teams for their affiliation not because of their skill. When the want skill they can watch the best on Tv. That's what diminished minor league baseball. Before TV almost every small town had some level of a minor league team. TV decreased emphasis on local affiliation, while conversely made it easier for alumni to continue to watch and support their college teams even though they were no longer close to them. In this country school loyalty supersedes local affiliations unlike in Europe and in other countries where local is still paramount.. Minor leagues which thrive on local support, no longer have much value in the USA. local minor league or simi pro teams would be the only teams that a few of the vast majority presently playing in college would even have an opportunity to play for. Most would end up playing in city or rec leagues for enjoyment period.

Collage teams have a built in alumni, student and local audience. All three help them to succeed finacially, with the locals being the least valuable. The only sports, who even under these circumstances are able to support themselves are football and men basketball. By watching how much even the limited of WNBA teams struggle we get a picture of the value of women's basketball, based on talent alone in the USA. The actual monetary value based on talent that most college players have to offer on the open market is close to nothing. Even the cash cows of college football and basketball teams would struggle, as purely minor league teams, if they were not associated with their college brand. So lets quite this delusional idea that the college athletes are being exploited. It's the college brand affiliation that brings in the money not their talent. An example of that is how people still have interest and follow players that are no longer playing for their college team. School spirit and related affiliations are what drives college teams financial support.

That said both coach's and student athletes on scholarship both sign contracts. The issue is really the terms of those contracts. Just because colleges often give coaches contracts that favor coaches does not mean the are obligated to provide the same options to students. Still the added option that WCBB players now have to continue as professionals does require adjustments to the old contracts that were based on athletes being there primarily for a degree. The degree is often now secondary. As such student athletes should have the right to consider what is also best for their professional options. Still the college program has rights as well. It just seems that the rights of both parties need to be spelled out more specifically in a contract and not be left to the discretion of the NCAA who has their own monetary agenda.

Just a few thoughts ------I like the idea listed by mbr33ct of a player being allowed to transfer with out sitting out if the coach leaves. I would also include if a player is not getting at least a certain amount of playing time. Why should a player sit on the bench only to provide security and depth for a team while hindering their own professional prospects? Schools should also be given the option of signing individual contracts which eliminate sitting out a season because of transfer . A highly sought out recruit could demand that be included in their contract. It would also insure that a lesser sought after player would not use a program that takes a chance, gives the opportunity and develops a player, who then leaves for a better program. They should be held to their contract with the penalty of sitting out the next year, but giving the school the option to waive it. Schools should be allowed to waive any conditions in their favor with out being restrained by a league or the NCAA. And if they are restrained than the student needs to consider that factor before they sign.