rabbit holes and roll cages

[Dann]

Dan, I appreciate your optimism re: the B1G and I am on-board the USS CT. But, are you willing to go on record as saying that you would turn down an ACC invite in our current position and hope that the B1G invites us? And if so can you please explain how sitting on the sidelines would help us in any of the following areas: finances, perception, attendance, recruiting, infrastructure, coaching?

I understand the concern if there is a GOR, but honestly if we sign up with UNC, VT, FSU, CU, et al there is no way we would need to be the first to 'test' it. And if you think the B1G cares that we are 'easier' to get because we aren't in a conference, we have been easy to get for about 3 years now and it hasn't helped one bit.

Dan, would you take a big 12 invite now if you were uconn?

ok, i dont even know where to begin to defend my crazy guy stance, (fishy stopped reading this post right here)but here it goes. the 2 quotes above are from another thread, i just really liked the idea of this title for a thread and decided im hfd so it fits. here we go.

first off not to long ago i said the byu and uconn to the b12 rumors would happen. recently what have u seen? b12 rumors with uconn...i may not be a espn employee or uconn employee, but i am a freaking beast. i play the media game and the fan game better than most of u could imagine. u don't know the half of the half of the half ounce of it. i'm ten steps ahead of u all. ok enough of the funny guys stuff. gonna throw this fatty in and type away.

to give u both quick answers:
acc? no
b12? depends
now let me explain before u go all ham on me. right now we know that the perfered climate for the future is 4 confs of 16 or more teams each. "4 x #" if u will right now. we know that 3 confs have already claimed slots. the sec, pac and b1g. of those 3, based on uconns metrics alone we know that only the b1g is a possible spot no matter what your opinion of the odds are. the 4th spot is up for debate/war/networkwar. its between the acc and the b12 as we all know. one has bigger #'s and one has better $ and so on with the battle. nd vs texas and all the other metrics. but neither right now has claimed that 4th spot.

what we do know is that the 3 big boys so far all have slots left to fill and so do the other 2. one of both may get ripped apart but the ending no matter how u want it to be will have 4 conf's. either 1 of the 2 battling eats up the other with the big 3 or both of the b12 and acc get ate up and all the leftovers possible form a clear 4th and are the underdog conf of the 4 but they clearly live. so right now, uconn is not in either spot while almost every other school is. were on the outside.

what uconn needs to do before finding a home is find out where it can live as a school but also that conf must live. otherwise we are "leftout" anyway. but uconn going to either does not tip the sclae for that conf living, we are not powerful enough. were not. but, uconn going to one of those 2 confs with certain other teams can be powerful enough. heres a example of my above answer.

if uconn and cincy go to the acc 2moro, neither of us make the acc a auto lock to be 1 of the big 4. the sec and b10 could add acc schools after that and then the b12 could pluck acc schools and the acc is the left out conf. so uconn joining did not help the acc. the position the acc is in right now is not power so no matter who the acc adds its not enough to stop other confs. there is 1 exception to that. its nd for fball with uconn as #16. i would actually argue with u if nd joined that cincy would go instead of us. you can connect the dots on why i would say that. but anyway, that would be the one exception fwiw. nd has enough pull where they would make the acc the 4th power conf.

the b12 on the other hand gets a depends. why? if uconn was added with a byu or cincy, again thats not enough for the b12 to claim victory over the acc. the sec and b1g could still potentially rip apart the b12 with the pac also. the gor is not what u guys think it is. wvu posters have pumped its bulletproff vest way to muc. any b12 could leave 2moro. the issue is its home game rights are owned by the league. what would then happen is the league and the school leaving would not carry that on for 12 years of missery, they would instead go to court and find a # $ wise that a buyout could be reached. that # will be big tho becuase the b12 will ask for it to be paid for 12 years out. so like 10mil a year type money. very big basically but its breakable. if you were kansas for example and did that and go to the b1g then when your making 40 a year the 10 isn't such a big deal as u still make 30mil which is another 10 higher then the b12 contract. ok, i would however say yes to the b12 if any acc school was also with us as #11 and uconn #12 or even more 13..14.... why? becuase that would be the answer of the b12 beating the acc out. md started the possiblity of the acc being weak, but md alone isn't enough as they aren't powerful enough by themselves to kill the acc.

sitting on the sidelines this doesn't help any of those things. thats a fact but its a huge risk wich we are taking and 1 that i agree with which most if not all here dont. thats where my stance itches all of u. i like the risk becuase i think the worst case in the end for us is being left out in the 5th conf. mayn of u think the worst case is tulane and ecu bball game. the reason i have been so crazy on warde all this time is i like the risk we are playing, but since we are playing it that way, we need to do everything we can to counter it in the meantime which we aren't. thats my rift with warde and the coaching situations and marketing and recuriting grades and so on...i like the risk, but i don't like how we are executing the actual on field parts of it. but thats a different story.

so thats my answer to each. i honestly think for all the doom about CR, we are in a very nice spot quietly. we can go anywhere. who knows if we will but we have many possiblities. other schools do not have all of these. thats why i am not pro joining the acc, unless its nd fball we go with. but as u all know i hate the acc anyway and dream b1g...

now if u want to talk about the uconn and uva mishap or the b1g potential list and stuff i can go on but this is where i stand with those questions asked to me. i would enjoy talking about these things if u guys want to but anyway, flame away now.

 

[king conn]

ok, i dont even know where to begin to defend my crazy guy stance, (fishy stopped reading this post right here)but here it goes. the 2 quotes above are from another thread, i just really liked the idea of this title for a thread and decided im hfd so it fits. here we go.

first off not to long ago i said the byu and uconn to the b12 rumors would happen. recently what have u seen? b12 rumors with uconn...i may not be a espn employee or uconn employee, but i am a freaking beast. i play the media game and the fan game better than most of u could imagine. u don't know the half of the half of the half ounce of it. i'm ten steps ahead of u all. ok enough of the funny guys stuff. gonna throw this fatty in and type away.

to give u both quick answers:
acc? no
b12? depends
now let me explain before u go all ham on me. right now we know that the perfered climate for the future is 4 confs of 16 or more teams each. "4 x #" if u will right now. we know that 3 confs have already claimed slots. the sec, pac and b1g. of those 3, based on uconns metrics alone we know that only the b1g is a possible spot no matter what your opinion of the odds are. the 4th spot is up for debate/war/networkwar. its between the acc and the b12 as we all know. one has bigger #'s and one has better $ and so on with the battle. nd vs texas and all the other metrics. but neither right now has claimed that 4th spot.

what we do know is that the 3 big boys so far all have slots left to fill and so do the other 2. one of both may get ripped apart but the ending no matter how u want it to be will have 4 conf's. either 1 of the 2 battling eats up the other with the big 3 or both of the b12 and acc get ate up and all the leftovers possible form a clear 4th and are the underdog conf of the 4 but they clearly live. so right now, uconn is not in either spot while almost every other school is. were on the outside.

what uconn needs to do before finding a home is find out where it can live as a school but also that conf must live. otherwise we are "leftout" anyway. but uconn going to either does not tip the sclae for that conf living, we are not powerful enough. were not. but, uconn going to one of those 2 confs with certain other teams can be powerful enough. heres a example of my above answer.

if uconn and cincy go to the acc 2moro, neither of us make the acc a auto lock to be 1 of the big 4. the sec and b10 could add acc schools after that and then the b12 could pluck acc schools and the acc is the left out conf. so uconn joining did not help the acc. the position the acc is in right now is not power so no matter who the acc adds its not enough to stop other confs. there is 1 exception to that. its nd for fball with uconn as #16. i would actually argue with u if nd joined that cincy would go instead of us. you can connect the dots on why i would say that. but anyway, that would be the one exception fwiw. nd has enough pull where they would make the acc the 4th power conf.

the b12 on the other hand gets a depends. why? if uconn was added with a byu or cincy, again thats not enough for the b12 to claim victory over the acc. the sec and b1g could still potentially rip apart the b12 with the pac also. the gor is not what u guys think it is. wvu posters have pumped its bulletproff vest way to muc. any b12 could leave 2moro. the issue is its home game rights are owned by the league. what would then happen is the league and the school leaving would not carry that on for 12 years of missery, they would instead go to court and find a # $ wise that a buyout could be reached. that # will be big tho becuase the b12 will ask for it to be paid for 12 years out. so like 10mil a year type money. very big basically but its breakable. if you were kansas for example and did that and go to the b1g then when your making 40 a year the 10 isn't such a big deal as u still make 30mil which is another 10 higher then the b12 contract. ok, i would however say yes to the b12 if any acc school was also with us as #11 and uconn #12 or even more 13..14.... why? becuase that would be the answer of the b12 beating the acc out. md started the possiblity of the acc being weak, but md alone isn't enough as they aren't powerful enough by themselves to kill the acc.

sitting on the sidelines this doesn't help any of those things. thats a fact but its a huge risk wich we are taking and 1 that i agree with which most if not all here dont. thats where my stance itches all of u. i like the risk becuase i think the worst case in the end for us is being left out in the 5th conf. mayn of u think the worst case is tulane and ecu bball game. the reason i have been so crazy on warde all this time is i like the risk we are playing, but since we are playing it that way, we need to do everything we can to counter it in the meantime which we aren't. thats my rift with warde and the coaching situations and marketing and recuriting grades and so on...i like the risk, but i don't like how we are executing the actual on field parts of it. but thats a different story.

so thats my answer to each. i honestly think for all the doom about CR, we are in a very nice spot quietly. we can go anywhere. who knows if we will but we have many possiblities. other schools do not have all of these. thats why i am not pro joining the acc, unless its nd fball we go with. but as u all know i hate the acc anyway and dream b1g...

now if u want to talk about the uconn and uva mishap or the b1g potential list and stuff i can go on but this is where i stand with those questions asked to me. i would enjoy talking about these things if u guys want to but anyway, flame away now.

so if I follow what you are saying, we are in this position more because of dumb ( or bad ) luck more than anything Warde or Susan are doing.
I still think our chances of landing in the so called final 4 are better if we are in one of the final five conferences now. We are easier to exclude if we are already excluded, plus our programs will get worse in the meantime.
BTW, it is huge that Louisville is currently laying the wood to #3 Florida tonight. Who is the last team to defeat Louisville this year? When the media spinning begins to this off season of C.R. and they start in with how bad our football is, we have this to throw in their faces. Not to mention the Fla Sts and Clemsons.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[HobokenHusky]

About the 4th or 5th paragraph down regarding the big 12, I had the same thought when that rumor started. Us, Cincy, and 4 Acc teams, plus WVU, that is 7 of 8 in an eastern division. Still very unlikely, but that is very doable logistically. It would make more sense than current B1G with the psu/ru/Maryland offshoot.

 

[jdb50]

"and decided im hfd so it fits." Reminds me of Eddie Murphy "Hey I'm Gumby Damnit!" Would love to be #11 and 12 with Cinci to Big 12.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

HFD - Where are you seeing these BYU/UConn to Big12 rumors?

 

[RMoore1999]

i forgot to mention the acc-msg thing. uconn and cincy own msg right now. i can explain this later also but its extemeley valueable and espn wants it.

At the game and can't take anymore of C--S......gators suck....

So please tell me about the UVA-UConn mishap.

 

[Dann]

ok so the msg-acc/espn thing 1st:

right now up until a certain date when other fball schools get voting rights, the BE has the c7 and then uconn, cincy and usf who can vote on things. 2/3 of the fball side need to vote to blow up the conf. what would then be settles would be the name/brand, the $ and all ncaa issue stuffa nd then #3 the contract to msg. the bball schools would try to get as much as possible. the bowl ties in fball wise can be thrown out the window or some will stay with w/e fball schools are left in the nbe. they are not important to this and not a chip to argue as the c7 have no use for them.

the acc loves its tobacco road tney. espn however loves msg. espn pumps that week in msg just as much as they pump any bowl game in fball, its worth that much to them $ and inventory wise. so if espn tells the acc they play the tney at msg, they are playing it there and thats what espn wants. it wants the acc to be the feature all week in msg. how can espn get that. well it needs to find homes for 2 of the 3 fball schools. clearly thats cincy and uconn over usf. once it can do that, espn will have those 2 blow the league up and thru negoation will give the c7 the big eats name brand and ncaa tie ins. it also needs to then add 1 of cincy or uconn or both to then aquire the msg tie in. as u know i have said that uconn is not ready to go to the acc yet. this is why u saw and will see again espn all of a sudden pimp cincy. they can get cincy and msg. uconn would be willing to give that up because the answer then is uconn is going to the b12 or b10 and they are happy. thats how espn gets msg.

the other half of this is that once the blow up happens, espn will bid and own the c7. they will buy into the c7 contract wise for winter inventory. they will then tell the c7 who to add. they will not go small but big getting certain teams and markets. part of this is that they will grab a certain # of a10 teams. enough where the a10 gets blow up. why? becuase the a10 has inked the new brooklyn arena for its tney. espn will want that for the c7's new home. now espn can double play nyc as the tney week pump job. thats espns dream idea. it also keeps the c7 in nyc which is important to them, very important.

the a10 technically has 16 teams right now, here is how it breaks down to a blow up:
1) remember that uncc thread? they will go all sports to cusa soon. they are gone
2)temple is leaving for the big east all sports, they are gone
3)umass plays fball in the mac, they will jump ship when things go bad but i'm not sure if they jump before or after

so lets say they have 14 members then that can vote as umass can not be a jump ship classification yet. of those 14 the big east will add the following. bulter, xav, dayton, duq, stl for sure. thats 5. now pick your blocks vs invites. 1 of vcu or richmond, i think vcu. thats 6. las and stjoe are blocked by nova and gw is blocked by gtwon. fordham may be blocked by sju and uri by prov.

thats 6 of 14. i'm not sure if thats enough to blow up the league or not. i imagine the a10 could recover by adding some more maac teams or merging the 2 or something. what it is tho is enough for the brooklyn contract to be blown up. they have some type of language to back out based off what teams are in the conf and what value it hold etc etc. espn/big east just took the vlaue out of the league. brooklyn is now the new home to the big east. espn vs espn2 becomes a battle that week of the 2 confs meanwhile the big 4 games are all on there networks. thats how they make sure that the network is carried in all areas if fball didn't do it already...

so the c7 plus those 6 get you 13. the league will go to 16 or 18 for a monster round robin conf of all the best bball schools. they will create a fcs fball league where the likes of butler, nova, dayton, duq,gtown and crew can call fball home also, dont underrate this being a nice piece to the puzzle. the other sports league works as there is enough schools in it for every sport to some how live together. the question is those lst 3 or 5 slots. i think they will be mostly west schools like drake, creigh, wsu types. you could also argue a boston u type or davidson. we shall see...

ok next i'll go into the uva-uconn messup

 

[uconNYC]

B12 would be a very interesting recruiting dynamic. Presuming a level playing field in terms of coaches, academics, facilities, etc. Who would win the recruiting battles between ACC (SU), B1G (RU) and B12 (UConn)?

 

[UConnDan97]

B12 would be a very interesting recruiting dynamic. Presuming a level playing field in terms of coaches, academics, facilities, etc. Who would win the recruiting battles between ACC (SU), B1G (RU) and B12 (UConn)?

RU. But there is no stopping that now. Not only are they in a premier league, but the kids are "home-grown". CT and NY don't produce the amount of football talent that NJ does, unfortunately for us. But that doesn't mean that we can't find relatively equivalent talent and coach them up, leveraging our superior facilities and kinesiology expertise (a.k.a., the last 10 years)...

 

[junglehusky]

Good write up, but can anyone answer why does it have to be 4 big boy conferences, and not 5? Or 3 superior conferences and two tweener conferences? This is the centerpiece of dan's post, and a lot of other people are thinking about this, and not just messageboard / twitter types but writers and even coaches and administrators are thinking about this. But though I can understand it's interesting to think/talk about, I don't see why people would conclude that it has to happen this way. I haven't heard any explanation as to why 4 is the magic number and only 4, not 3 not 5.

Is this about breaking away from the NCAA? Because if it is, I think it's going to be a smaller number of schools than 4 x 16 or 4 x 20, and I would think it would be done independent of conferences period. Some group with the biggest budgets who would go all-out fielding professional teams (this is assuming TV money continues to increase and the bubble doesn't burst, which in the long run is impossible). This would be a national breakaway, your Michigans, Tennessees, USCs, Texas. Maybe some of the big name schools from the Big Ten decide they actually value academics and the NCAA. If that happens, schools like UConn, BC, Duke, Kansas, Minnesota, Miss St., and a lot more (probably some bigger football names too) are going to be left behind no matter if they're in the Big Ten or whatever conference is perceived to be "major". And the breakaway is really unlikely due to the minefield of lawsuits that are sure to explode. I wouldn't put money on it quite yet.

Is it about networks destroying each other's property? It does feel like ESPN destroyed the BE possibly to prevent NBC sports from getting a property, but come on, was it really worth all that cost to them? The NBE/NNBE wasn't going to turn NBC sports into a winner overnight. ESPN is clearly the dominant player and will continue to be that. And who would go after the ACC to hurt ESPN? If the ACC is destroyed its schools would go to the Big Ten and the Big12... correct me if I'm wrong but both leagues have at least partial deals with ESPN, right?

Anyway, leaving aside all of that for a minute. Dan's paragraph about sitting on the sidelines (i.e. turning down the ACC) - just one question. Where will UConn get athletics revenue during the time it's waiting on the sidelines? We need that income to improve / maintain success overall. To pay coaching staffs. To build the bball facility. To expand the Rent hopefully in a few years. To run the day to day operations. How much money will we get in whatever-the-conference-formely-known-as-the-Big-East-will-now-be-known-as from TV revenue, versus how much would we get in the ACC? And if it's significantly less, do you seriously think Susan Herbst or any sane person would turn down the money the ACC would offer? How many years do you think UConn can afford to wait on the sidelines collecting a smaller paycheck? What happens if Cincy gets snapped up by the Big12?

 

[ctchamps]

I have to agree with HFD that UConn is outside looking in and jumping to either the ACC or B12 can end up being a situation of jumping from the fire to the frying pan. The risk is the timing of events. The longer UConn is in some cluster pluck of a conference the greater the potential its major sports programs lose significance. But jumping too quickly into something could preclude a more stable option. There will have to be some thought in making a decision when one presents itself and there certainly will need to be an element of luck.

Sadly most people won't agree with HFD and insist on taking the ACC offer the moment it presents itself. When the fire is lapping the feet, people don't care where they are jumping. They just want the pain to stop.

 

[ctchamps]

Good write up, but can anyone answer why does it have to be 4 big boy conferences, and not 5? Or 3 superior conferences and two tweener conferences? This is the centerpiece of dan's post, and a lot of other people are thinking about this, and not just messageboard / twitter types but writers and even coaches and administrators are thinking about this. But though I can understand it's interesting to think/talk about, I don't see why people would conclude that it has to happen this way. I haven't heard any explanation as to why 4 is the magic number and only 4, not 3 not 5.

Is this about breaking away from the NCAA? Because if it is, I think it's going to be a smaller number of schools than 4 x 16 or 4 x 20, and I would think it would be done independent of conferences period. Some group with the biggest budgets who would go all-out fielding professional teams (this is assuming TV money continues to increase and the bubble doesn't burst, which in the long run is impossible). This would be a national breakaway, your Michigans, Tennessees, USCs, Texas. Maybe some of the big name schools from the Big Ten decide they actually value academics and the NCAA. If that happens, schools like UConn, BC, Duke, Kansas, Minnesota, Miss St., and a lot more (probably some bigger football names too) are going to be left behind no matter if they're in the Big Ten or whatever conference is perceived to be "major". And the breakaway is really unlikely due to the minefield of lawsuits that are sure to explode. I wouldn't put money on it quite yet.

Is it about networks destroying each other's property? It does feel like ESPN destroyed the BE possibly to prevent NBC sports from getting a property, but come on, was it really worth all that cost to them? The NBE/NNBE wasn't going to turn NBC sports into a winner overnight. ESPN is clearly the dominant player and will continue to be that. And who would go after the ACC to hurt ESPN? If the ACC is destroyed its schools would go to the Big Ten and the Big12... correct me if I'm wrong but both leagues have at least partial deals with ESPN, right?

Anyway, leaving aside all of that for a minute. Dan's paragraph about sitting on the sidelines (i.e. turning down the ACC) - just one question. Where will UConn get athletics revenue during the time it's waiting on the sidelines? We need that income to improve / maintain success overall. To pay coaching staffs. To build the bball facility. To expand the Rent hopefully in a few years. To run the day to day operations. How much money will we get in whatever-the-conference-formely-known-as-the-Big-East-will-now-be-known-as from TV revenue, versus how much would we get in the ACC? And if it's significantly less, do you seriously think Susan Herbst or any sane person would turn down the money the ACC would offer? How many years do you think UConn can afford to wait on the sidelines collecting a smaller paycheck? What happens if Cincy gets snapped up by the Big12?

You bring up some good points about conference configurations. I would say that the end picture is up in the air because of the various competing interests.

 

[Dann]

4x 12, 14, 16, 18 or 20 allows for the follwoing

a bcs playoff with 4 auto bids from each conf. or a expanded playoff of 8 teams with each division of each conf getting a bid. thats why going big in the future will allow for regional divisions as all that matters fball wise among other $ reasons for going big.

14 is a bad # schedule wise so confs will eitherbe 12, 16, 18 or 20.

12 means 2 divisions of 6, so 5 games in divison and then 3 other division games. its small but it allows u to play half of the other divison each other year

14 means 2 divisions of 7 so 6 games. now u can't play half the other division so the split is always un equal on a yearly basis to who plays what teams and sos/rpi type numbers

16 means 2 8 team divisions with 7 games each. it alows u to play 1 cross over game for a 8 game schedule and 4 ooc

18 and 20 mean just your division u play which is truly what i believ will happen eventually as this will one day become a divisions thing with the conf name just being the umbrella company u wear a patch of on your jersey and are on tv network wise.

in bball the bigger leagues allo for a round robin sports wise so all teams play each other h/w rotate every other year. in the grand scheme it allows a 32 team or 64 team march madness between the 4 leagues. espn will try to get the big east into this as a power bball only league and argue they are bball worhty, just watch and wait for that...

in all other sports, travel $ matters so having big divisions keeps travel down to regional areas somewhat. thats good for ad's...

in fball, conf get all the $ for tv and bowl stuff. in bball, the ncaa makes the $. the big boys feel ripped off from the ncaa. eventually the nca will either give up the to the big boys or the big boys will split. when this happens who ever gets the uconn and unc's of the college sports world will have a extra pay day coming as they are worth a load compared to others. but that day is far away and never truly a fact so conf can't bank on that and add bball teams right now. it has to make fball/tv/$ sense and the bball factor is a bonus later on.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Please use capital letters.

 

[RMoore1999]

ok so the msg-acc/espn thing 1st:

right now up until a certain date when other fball schools get voting rights, the BE has the c7 and then uconn, cincy and usf who can vote on things. 2/3 of the fball side need to vote to blow up the conf. what would then be settles would be the name/brand, the $ and all ncaa issue stuffa nd then #3 the contract to msg. the bball schools would try to get as much as possible. the bowl ties in fball wise can be thrown out the window or some will stay with w/e fball schools are left in the nbe. they are not important to this and not a chip to argue as the c7 have no use for them.

the acc loves its tobacco road tney. espn however loves msg. espn pumps that week in msg just as much as they pump any bowl game in fball, its worth that much to them $ and inventory wise. so if espn tells the acc they play the tney at msg, they are playing it there and thats what espn wants. it wants the acc to be the feature all week in msg. how can espn get that. well it needs to find homes for 2 of the 3 fball schools. clearly thats cincy and uconn over usf. once it can do that, espn will have those 2 blow the league up and thru negoation will give the c7 the big eats name brand and ncaa tie ins. it also needs to then add 1 of cincy or uconn or both to then aquire the msg tie in. as u know i have said that uconn is not ready to go to the acc yet. this is why u saw and will see again espn all of a sudden pimp cincy. they can get cincy and msg. uconn would be willing to give that up because the answer then is uconn is going to the b12 or b10 and they are happy. thats how espn gets msg.

the other half of this is that once the blow up happens, espn will bid and own the c7. they will buy into the c7 contract wise for winter inventory. they will then tell the c7 who to add. they will not go small but big getting certain teams and markets. part of this is that they will grab a certain # of a10 teams. enough where the a10 gets blow up. why? becuase the a10 has inked the new brooklyn arena for its tney. espn will want that for the c7's new home. now espn can double play nyc as the tney week pump job. thats espns dream idea. it also keeps the c7 in nyc which is important to them, very important.

the a10 technically has 16 teams right now, here is how it breaks down to a blow up:
1) remember that uncc thread? they will go all sports to cusa soon. they are gone
2)temple is leaving for the big east all sports, they are gone
3)umass plays fball in the mac, they will jump ship when things go bad but i'm not sure if they jump before or after

so lets say they have 14 members then that can vote as umass can not be a jump ship classification yet. of those 14 the big east will add the following. bulter, xav, dayton, duq, stl for sure. thats 5. now pick your blocks vs invites. 1 of vcu or richmond, i think vcu. thats 6. las and stjoe are blocked by nova and gw is blocked by gtwon. fordham may be blocked by sju and uri by prov.

thats 6 of 14. i'm not sure if thats enough to blow up the league or not. i imagine the a10 could recover by adding some more maac teams or merging the 2 or something. what it is tho is enough for the brooklyn contract to be blown up. they have some type of language to back out based off what teams are in the conf and what value it hold etc etc. espn/big east just took the vlaue out of the league. brooklyn is now the new home to the big east. espn vs espn2 becomes a battle that week of the 2 confs meanwhile the big 4 games are all on there networks. thats how they make sure that the network is carried in all areas if fball didn't do it already...

so the c7 plus those 6 get you 13. the league will go to 16 or 18 for a monster round robin conf of all the best bball schools. they will create a fcs fball league where the likes of butler, nova, dayton, duq,gtown and crew can call fball home also, dont underrate this being a nice piece to the puzzle. the other sports league works as there is enough schools in it for every sport to some how live together. the question is those lst 3 or 5 slots. i think they will be mostly west schools like drake, creigh, wsu types. you could also argue a boston u type or davidson. we shall see...

ok next i'll go into the uva-uconn messup

You're turning into the Dude of Connecticut with these cliffhangers....

 

[Dann]

You're turning into the Dude of Connecticut with these cliffhangers....

i am actually batman. suck on that!

 

[WestHartHusk]

HFD,

You are a man of your word. I don't agree with everything, but there is a certain logic to your post.

 

[junglehusky]

in fball, conf get all the $ for tv and bowl stuff. in bball, the ncaa makes the $. the big boys feel ripped off from the ncaa. eventually the nca will either give up the to the big boys or the big boys will split. when this happens who ever gets the uconn and unc's of the college sports world will have a extra pay day coming as they are worth a **** load compared to others. but that day is far away and never truly a fact so conf can't bank on that and add bball teams right now. it has to make fball/tv/$ sense and the bball factor is a bonus later on.

From this post... I see a lot of scheduling reasons for why different numbers of schools make sense for conferences. I still don't see why it has to be 4 conferences not 5 not 3. From the conference's point of view, it seems like it's playing Risk, counting all the countries and trying to figure out where they'll go. But when fans or bloggers do this they're still playing the game with the boundary condition that it has to end with four empires. But as you said above, conferences (and schools) can't bank of the fact of a breakaway league, and they also can't bank on there only being 4 conferences. That was always a sportswriter's theory (with a small t). They can make contingecy plans for it if it becomes more likely to happen, but right now if anyone is actually betting money or their school's future on it happening, they are failing their fiduciary responsibility to their school. If they are being responsible, they're considering $$$ of course which is motivation for all of the moves that were made. But it's a series of smaller , shorter term economic decisions (compared to a god's-eye view) driving the process, not a guided process with a goal at the end. That means uncertainty for everyone. The schools are just chasing dollars. The networks are providing the dollars, but they're not making it contingent on only having 4 properties. And I think that in a couple decades, if not sooner, the bubble for sports TV $$$ is going to burst, or at least plateau.

(No, I'm not an economist, but I did read Freakonomics along with everybody else).

 

[RioDog]

`The time has come,` HFD said ,
`To talk of many things.
Of rabbit holes and roll cages
Of cabbages and Kings
And why CR is boiling hot
And whether pigs have wings.`

(With apologies to Lewis Carroll)

 

[SubbaBub]

This has epic thread potential. Just the right mix of comedy, reason, insanity and attitude. I'm just happy to be a part of it.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RMoore1999]

i am actually batman. suck on that!

Good work...per usual, you've pretty much nailed it (though Connecticut can go ACC today and jump to B1G tomorrow).

But still awaiting the UVA/ct mishap angle...spit it up already.

 

[Dann]

Good work...per usual, you've pretty much nailed it (though Connecticut can go ACC today and jump to B1G tomorrow).

But still awaiting the UVA/ct mishap angle...spit it up already.

this will be the thur late night chat. prob 11ish. the late night crowd here on the CR board has been real good lately.

 

[Dann]

so the uva and uconn mess:

when the b10 started talking last summer to ruty and md, the rutgers site had a inside source that knew of this. during the fall he alerted the base several times that atleast contact was being had consistently. what wasn't really know was what teams and time frame. the orginal more for the b10 was to take 4 teams and put the private schools 2 isalnds by the time it was done. they wanted to take 2 teams form the B# and 2 from the ACC. uva and uconn were the other 2. when they got ready to make this happen here was the hold up.
ruty-ready to go at any cost
md-had a escrow $ issue
uva-had a pres/bot issue
uconn-had a image issue

the move was actually supose to be done a week earlier than it actually happened. then went to pull the trigger and things were to messy to do so. then the under armor guy put up the $ for md. at the same time uva wasn't getting sorted out and the b10 had no choice but to only take 2 for the moment. uconns image problem was that nothing was getting done so it was a smlal issue the b10 thought but compared to rutgers where they were everything good to go, u can see how we took the back seat. this is why i have been non stop on warde and crew. we needed to clean house and fix our issues which mostly we still havn't and it really scares me as a fan that as a school we can't get this done. i honestly will say this and i dont mean to be the dam devil but i would fight anyone right now in the street for a b10 invite, i would go to jail if uconn could get to the promise land. thats how i feel(please don't take that and flame) and it pains me that we can't get a thing done in our athletic department, it really does. susan is doing all she can meanwhile warde is at dunkin.

what the b10 was trying to do was this:
-they wanted nyc/phili/dc with big publics
-they wanted to put cuse on a island
-they thought pitt to the b12 would happen eventually as a result
-they wanted to put duke and wake on a island also by making unc the next target. basically kill off competition slowly while also capuring the markets
-they wanted to build the best bball conf ever and also be top 3 fball wise without taking a project team(like a memphis type basically)

they were going to go to 16 and then let the sec hammer away at who it wants with unc being the battle. the b10's plan was to go after unc and try to force nd as #18. nd isn't that dumb. they know if the 1b0 can go to 18 then they can go to 20. so nd is does see the writing on the wall and is now influencing all this. that is why gtech is a serious matter and so is bc. its becuase nd wants a couple certain schools for road games if they are going to be in this eastern market. do u see now why i am just up in all types of flames daily? we had the ticket and becuase we had a issue and uva was a mess we didn't go. if we were good to go who knows if they pick ruty or uconn. not looking for a argument between the 2....but now the uva thing still seems a bit messy but figured out. but nd is now a player in all this after the b10 basically fired a warning shot and said speak or be over. now nd has influence and guess what? that makes it harder for uconn to get back into the yes section of a invite.

think about it.

ruty and md make 14. the b10 needs to build a east division, tosu is ok with it as long as they get 2 things, 1 #nd in the east and #2 michigan as a crossover game if the league is at 18. at 20 they know the division play 9 games so no crossover. dont underrate how much of a team player tosu is being in all this.
uconn
uva
unc
gtech
nd
bc
thats 20. cuse is not a option, dont kid yourself. there is a reason they tried to run for years to the acc and then finally did. the issue is the b10 may be able to get nd at 18 in which case 19 and 20 need to be extremely powerful moves to happen. a school like uconn does not have that power. the belief is nd wont go before it has to and that 20 is the game, but how would we ever know if they think they would rather be in a 18 team league. a 18 team b10 means 9 in the east division and 8 games. also means 4 ooc games. a 20 team b10 is 3 ooc games ion the grand scheme, see the issue? its unclear if nd wants a 18 or 20 team league. then there is one other factor. the b10 really likes kansas and yes they are a great fit for the conf. what kansas brings is a better layout to the east/west divisions of the conf.

thats 21 teams for 18 or 20 spots, see why i am so uneasy? the last resort as i have said all along is a beat up acc which is a mix of left over acc schools/big east schools/few cusa potentials. but its very hard now to get into the b10. nd wants boston and its a question of if the b10 will look the other way on bc's metrics to add them. i honestly think and i hate to say this but uconn should offer the b10 a deal that until the rent is 60k large, when nd plays @uconn they can play in nyc or fox or fenway. agree to something like that. it may take us 5 years to expand so nd gets a nice deal at first and that allows nd vs uconn to build a footing in boston for the game eventually in ct down the road.

the rent has naming rights that go up in 2018 i believe. i would liek this to be announced yesterday that we are going to sell the rights to the company that puts 30 mil down up front and sign a 15 year deal with them. something like that. take that 30mil and expand to 60k for 2019 and we now have a sponsor for 15 years. companys like sobe imho should be the targets of such a idea for example. this is the type of proactive thing we need to do for the b10 to see we are serious and we can be a better add than bc. i think that would tip nd's scale enough that our bball and other stuff woukld then be ok for nd to have uconn over bc.

if i was ad, i would have had most of this done before we played a fball game this fall, i kid not. warde has no vision, no media balls and no clue what he is doing.

the list for the b10 has 7 schools on it. fsu and clem tried to get on the list, they couldn't. mizzu was on the list but not worth the add. cuse and pitt and simply not on the list. its 7 schools and 4 to 6 of them will be in the league by either 2015 or 17. bank on that.

 

[Dann]

now lets talk about the aau. i know a bit about it but not all. to be honest i dont give a about it(sorry dan97 ) but i understnad its a great thing for uconn and the state so i am pro getting into it. i just dont feel something liek that and athletics should mesh in any way, but the truth is it does so i want to play the dam game...

another poster here posted at it and he was right on, i forget who but it wasn't upstater. upstate does a nice job also among others on this topic. maybe it was dooley or moore? i forget hopefully u chime in here sorry i forgot who posted it. uconn is within reach on all metrics of the aau but not highly ranked in any metrics. the deal is tho that we fit right now. we also for a smaller state school and smaller state population wise then opthers in the aau/cic, have great % numbers as to the aau fitting uconn stats wise how ever that works i do not know. the deal was with uconn going ot the b10 that the aau would then vote us in and the cic would include uconn. this is where susan made a power move that was huge. she is trying her ass off. she has many aau connections as i have posted about before. she knew that she could get into the aau with the b10 invite but that uconn would be looked at as a fringe add and questionable. so what she did was back up her talk. she created the tech park plan and w/e else that thing has. she also went on a uge teacher/research search with adding faculty and all that . what she was doing was syaing get us in now, and we will over the next 5 years expand so much research wise that we will look like a great add and no one can question it. she basically guaranteed the b10 schools, the aau and cic that adding uconn was the right move as we would be a research monster within a couple years. it was a huge power move by her and one that proves that her haed is in the game longrun. this is why i am so pro susan but not warde.