The other day on the Boneyard, in response to a comment that UConn had been outcoached against Marquette, Nan wrote, "It’s easy to criticize—let’s hear some specifics of things Geno should be doing that he isn’t already doing." For the sake of the 95-year-old to whom I faithfully report Boneyard wisdom, I was looking forward to some thoughtful, considered, constructive replies. But someone suggested that the thread be closed, and it promptly was. Are our own coaching strategies off limits? We do not hesitate to point out—respectfully, for the most part (thanks to Nan's good moderating)—how individual players can improve or continue to excel.
Questioning coaching
- Thread starter Wessex
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In games, the players are reminded of time and score. When it comes to "critiquing" I think posters should consider something similar...time and situation. I always assume that players, parents, recruits, etc. read some of these posts or at least hear of them. So while I might not jump on a bandwagon to close a thread some are so nasty, overly harsh, and so void of constructive criticism that I don't feel a need to voice keeping them open. Not to mention, who cares what I think!
But, I hear you. Geno is a great coach, but he's not perfect and I'm sure he wouldn't disagree. But, I'm not a fan of piling on folks when they are down. After a loss...folks should pause and consider how to make a point without being destructive.I'd be willing to read any criticism of Geno's coaching from anyone who can match his experience, expertise, and success. I no one can so any opinions are worthless.
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When your V-8 is running on 6 cylinders, coaching it will do nothing to make run better.
I have never had trouble expressing my opinions on this forum. Sometimes, people disagree with my views and that is fine.
When it comes to coaching, I have a few thoughts to offer. Some of us have played and coached so may have a deeper understanding of what I am about to say.
in college games, a lot of the coaching and preparation happens before the game. You come in with a plan. You come prepared to execute and win. In evenly matched situations, If the plan is executed well, and the opposition allows you to control the game, you usually win. If the opposing team disrupts your plan either because of greater effort or better skill, you often lose. In-game coaching identifies situational advantages to call plays that require orchestration to give you an edge to score points, e.g., in time constrained situations. On some days you have the option of going to a player who is having an exceptional day, e.g., ”just get the ball to Lou and set a screen.”
In the games we have lost, our plans got disrupted. Either key players got injured or we failed to execute things we already knew how to do, or we were plain exhausted and did not have the energy to fight. We are at our best when we run the motion offense and shoot well from the outside. Then the paint opens up and triangles that take advantage of mismatches or create opportunities for back cuts allow us to score well. In the games we lose, we try to force a triangle against a crowded paint area while our one shooter is guarded aggressively on the weak side. This is not what the coach is asking the team to do.
On defense, when we play well, we make seamless switches on the outside and make it hard for the opposition to penetrate and score. We rebound on the inside. When we are tired, players get beat, they get screened/stranded, and we foul more than we want to.
Playing at this level is not easy, coaching is not easy! That said, I am happy to listen to points of view on coaching if they are thoughtful and insightful. If they come from a place of emotion rather than knowledge that is ok some of the time. Know that I come from a place of enormous respect for the players, the coaches, and the tradition that is UConn basketball.
When it comes to coaching, I have a few thoughts to offer. Some of us have played and coached so may have a deeper understanding of what I am about to say.
in college games, a lot of the coaching and preparation happens before the game. You come in with a plan. You come prepared to execute and win. In evenly matched situations, If the plan is executed well, and the opposition allows you to control the game, you usually win. If the opposing team disrupts your plan either because of greater effort or better skill, you often lose. In-game coaching identifies situational advantages to call plays that require orchestration to give you an edge to score points, e.g., in time constrained situations. On some days you have the option of going to a player who is having an exceptional day, e.g., ”just get the ball to Lou and set a screen.”
In the games we have lost, our plans got disrupted. Either key players got injured or we failed to execute things we already knew how to do, or we were plain exhausted and did not have the energy to fight. We are at our best when we run the motion offense and shoot well from the outside. Then the paint opens up and triangles that take advantage of mismatches or create opportunities for back cuts allow us to score well. In the games we lose, we try to force a triangle against a crowded paint area while our one shooter is guarded aggressively on the weak side. This is not what the coach is asking the team to do.
On defense, when we play well, we make seamless switches on the outside and make it hard for the opposition to penetrate and score. We rebound on the inside. When we are tired, players get beat, they get screened/stranded, and we foul more than we want to.
Playing at this level is not easy, coaching is not easy! That said, I am happy to listen to points of view on coaching if they are thoughtful and insightful. If they come from a place of emotion rather than knowledge that is ok some of the time. Know that I come from a place of enormous respect for the players, the coaches, and the tradition that is UConn basketball.
KnightBridgeAZ
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Excellent analysis @Topdawg.
Yesterday I watched Stanford whip Arizona. Apart from anything else (actual coaching, game planning, etc.) there is also a reality that (sometimes) things just don't go your way. I watched highly talented players from Stanford make really remarkable shots regardless of the defense. I watched Arizona players toss up bricks that they normally make, and one of our better players go absolutely scoreless (and I saw no evidence that Stanford was targeting her specifically for defense).
My point is that there are times things just don't go your way. Perhaps Geno made a bad decision - and perhaps he didn't. Maybe the cumulative effect of a short bench caught up with them on a day the good opponent brought their "A" game. And perhaps a couple shots missed that a player normally makes and a couple of the other team's shots fell that wouldn't normally.
Anyone wanting to critique a coach strictly off of one game (or 2, including one against an undefeated opponent) is missing the point. Judging off the season shows first rate coaching, in my opinion, and as my wife has pointed out over the years - unless you are experienced and a true "insider" you just don't know enough to give an intelligent opinion.
Yesterday I watched Stanford whip Arizona. Apart from anything else (actual coaching, game planning, etc.) there is also a reality that (sometimes) things just don't go your way. I watched highly talented players from Stanford make really remarkable shots regardless of the defense. I watched Arizona players toss up bricks that they normally make, and one of our better players go absolutely scoreless (and I saw no evidence that Stanford was targeting her specifically for defense).
My point is that there are times things just don't go your way. Perhaps Geno made a bad decision - and perhaps he didn't. Maybe the cumulative effect of a short bench caught up with them on a day the good opponent brought their "A" game. And perhaps a couple shots missed that a player normally makes and a couple of the other team's shots fell that wouldn't normally.
Anyone wanting to critique a coach strictly off of one game (or 2, including one against an undefeated opponent) is missing the point. Judging off the season shows first rate coaching, in my opinion, and as my wife has pointed out over the years - unless you are experienced and a true "insider" you just don't know enough to give an intelligent opinion.
Aluminny69
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Personally, I thought CD did a better coaching job with the substitutes than Geno. I think the subs might get nervous with Geno, knowing that one mistake will get them pulled out, right back on the bench.
you dont need to have 11 championships, 38 years of coaching experience and over a 1000 wins to have a valid opinion. I think many people don't get this. opinions shouldn't be automatically discarded because somebody's resume doesnt stack up to GAs.
My biggest critque of GA is that he doesn't have much tolerance for mistakes and doesn't let some players play through those mistakes. Young players become paralysed, afraid to use their instincts, and may come robotic and over think, when they play because they are so petrified of making a mistake.
That said, it is obviously a double edged sword. Playing players that continue to make mistakes can cost you games. Playing players that are mentally and phyiscally exhausted can also cost you games.
My biggest critque of GA is that he doesn't have much tolerance for mistakes and doesn't let some players play through those mistakes. Young players become paralysed, afraid to use their instincts, and may come robotic and over think, when they play because they are so petrified of making a mistake.
That said, it is obviously a double edged sword. Playing players that continue to make mistakes can cost you games. Playing players that are mentally and phyiscally exhausted can also cost you games.
RedStickHusky
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I suppose that any opinion is "valid" to the extent that someone has actually claimed it as their own. Conversely, "validity" in that sense does not magically convert opinion to fact. We are all off course, entitled to our opinions. None of us are entitled to be right. People tend to have trouble with that last bit.
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RedStickHusky
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I tend to credit Geno (and Chris and Jamelle and, frankly, many if not most posters on the Yard) with knowing a -ton more about basketball than I do. I may toss out the occasional "why?", but I don't think I ever have (or will) used a "he should have". That doesn't mean I don't enjoy other posters opinions, I frequently do find them entertaining. I just don't take them very seriously. FWIW, Geno gets a lot more rope on the boneyard than Dan Hurley does...
BRS24
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These are all good points - dammed if you do and if you don't.
I think the challenge is when GA puts in Amari, Ayanna, or Ines, the flow and timing of the offense is affected by their lack of experience. Allowing them to play through mistakes is a good thing, however it then may bog down the offensive possessions. With the exception of the Marquette game and the obvious mental fatigue that made everything seem much harder, the 5 starters have a really good connection, and even if you sub just one of them, the timing breaks down a lil bit, and the read and react style becomes less so.
Our offensive "playbook" is not easy. Geno is trying to teach the players how to play basketball. There are a lot of really good players that can go 1v1 and score at will, until they come up against a lock down defender, then what? The other 4 players are now forced to pickup a bit more of the scoring.
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Outsider’s opinion.
I think there should be a 48 hour moratorium following a loss on criticism of coaching and players negative performance. Let the emotion settle.
I watched a 30 year old, heavy traffic message board split into factions and die due to negative gamethreads and overly emotional posts following football games (and politics)
I think there should be a 48 hour moratorium following a loss on criticism of coaching and players negative performance. Let the emotion settle.
I watched a 30 year old, heavy traffic message board split into factions and die due to negative gamethreads and overly emotional posts following football games (and politics)
i think ti often happens that when people quickly type something in, they often forget to put in qualifying words that would make it very clear that they are not trying to say it is a fact.
For example your post (and mine for that matter), may be interpreted as stating a fact, but it is merely an opinion.
A very tough subject in a way, offering opinions or viewpoints here. I have not been following WBB nearly as long as many here, but followed Uconn‘s solely and peripherally when Auriemma and Dailey were hired because I knew Chris Dailey a bit when she was at Rutgers and thought her a really nice and genuine person and a terrific coach.
I found out about this site around Stewart’s sophomore or junior year, read posts occasionally and then joined, I think in 2019 or so; somewhere in between those times I pretty much abandoned MBB, except for St. John’s, which I have rooted for forever.
I offer this because my perspective is probably much different than many here, I certainly root for Uconn, no question, but not with the zeal, passion, and sense of history (Auriemma/Dailey era) that many here do. I am first and foremost a basketball junkie and in some ways, the women’s game is the last vestige of the way the game I think is supposed to be played.
So to the thread‘s subject; to me, and it‘s only my opinion offered from the perspective offered above, there are not many here willing to discuss Uconn‘s team, players and coaches and the games objectively and openly. Players are either revered or wide open to criticism and to this point I offer two sets of players; Collier and Samuelson / Williams and Ono. Both pairs had terrific careers, the knock, whether valid or not and I don‘t think it remotely is, is that neither pair were able to win the FF games and produce championships. I know Collier and Samuelson won as freshman (Stewart, etc. senior years), but they were role players, not relied on and expected to produce.
Anyway, the way both pairs were treated on this board is in completely different ways. Collier and Samuelson rarely, rarely, were criticized, while Williams and Ono were at times vilified, sometimes to the point of being talked about in terms that could only be described as downright nasty and mean-spirited.
Why? I don’t have a clue but maybe it was just timing, because after three years of no championship perhaps many of the self-entitled posters who seem to think it is UConn’s God given right to never lose, to win every game by 30 and hoist the championship trophy year after year just had enough, I don’t know.
But I offer this, Uconn is still year over year absolutely in the mix, but the improvement in WBB just in the less than a decade I have been following more closely has improved by leaps and bounds; both in terms of number of high quality players, ”lesser” players on the next tier if you will who are still very capable of playing at a very high level on a given day, and certainly in the number of very high quality coaches. IMO, the days of Uconn or any team, as a “can’t be beaten with all 30 point wins, unprecedented win streaks and just give me the championship trophy now” are gone forever.
So respectful analysis, opinions and yes, criticisms, IMO, of Uconn‘s team would make the board much more interesting and put Uconn‘s team and players in a much more realistic light. Alas, at least from my perspective, it seems that those things seem to be taken almost as personal affronts and I am not sure to whom, posters or the team, but probably both.
I found out about this site around Stewart’s sophomore or junior year, read posts occasionally and then joined, I think in 2019 or so; somewhere in between those times I pretty much abandoned MBB, except for St. John’s, which I have rooted for forever.
I offer this because my perspective is probably much different than many here, I certainly root for Uconn, no question, but not with the zeal, passion, and sense of history (Auriemma/Dailey era) that many here do. I am first and foremost a basketball junkie and in some ways, the women’s game is the last vestige of the way the game I think is supposed to be played.
So to the thread‘s subject; to me, and it‘s only my opinion offered from the perspective offered above, there are not many here willing to discuss Uconn‘s team, players and coaches and the games objectively and openly. Players are either revered or wide open to criticism and to this point I offer two sets of players; Collier and Samuelson / Williams and Ono. Both pairs had terrific careers, the knock, whether valid or not and I don‘t think it remotely is, is that neither pair were able to win the FF games and produce championships. I know Collier and Samuelson won as freshman (Stewart, etc. senior years), but they were role players, not relied on and expected to produce.
Anyway, the way both pairs were treated on this board is in completely different ways. Collier and Samuelson rarely, rarely, were criticized, while Williams and Ono were at times vilified, sometimes to the point of being talked about in terms that could only be described as downright nasty and mean-spirited.
Why? I don’t have a clue but maybe it was just timing, because after three years of no championship perhaps many of the self-entitled posters who seem to think it is UConn’s God given right to never lose, to win every game by 30 and hoist the championship trophy year after year just had enough, I don’t know.
But I offer this, Uconn is still year over year absolutely in the mix, but the improvement in WBB just in the less than a decade I have been following more closely has improved by leaps and bounds; both in terms of number of high quality players, ”lesser” players on the next tier if you will who are still very capable of playing at a very high level on a given day, and certainly in the number of very high quality coaches. IMO, the days of Uconn or any team, as a “can’t be beaten with all 30 point wins, unprecedented win streaks and just give me the championship trophy now” are gone forever.
So respectful analysis, opinions and yes, criticisms, IMO, of Uconn‘s team would make the board much more interesting and put Uconn‘s team and players in a much more realistic light. Alas, at least from my perspective, it seems that those things seem to be taken almost as personal affronts and I am not sure to whom, posters or the team, but probably both.
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Some good basic thoughts.
As this season has progressed, several areas continue to suffer.
1. The lack of experience on the bench
2. The excessive number of turnovers per game
3. Key injuries
4. Early game fouls
To address #1 perhaps in practice, the non-starters are the only ones that can shoot in several drills when you fit them in after practice play has started just as they would coming off the bench. They must look for and shoot. Find your shot within the play.
#2: Turnovers, poor passes and sloppy one hand handling of passes result in the player sitting. A coach acts as a ref and calls it tight.
#3: Headbands for concussion incurred players or similar especially during practice in addition to a green bib.
#4: A coach needs to focus on how a game is being refed and relay that to the players throughout the game.
HuskyNan
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Geno
CAREER RECORDS | |
| 11 National Championships: | 1995, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 |
| All-Time: | 1,149-150 (.885/37 seasons) |
| UConn Record: | 1,149-150 (.885/37 seasons) |
| NCAA Tournament: | 131-22 (.856) |
| Conference Regular Season: | 554-62 (.899) |
| Conference Tournament: | 93-10 (.903) |
| Conference Overall: | 647-72 (.900) |
He also has 27 regular season and Tournament conference championships.
Records and achievements[edit]
- Highest winning percentage among NCAA basketball coaches (minimum 10 seasons), any level, men's or women's (.885)[49]
- Most NCAA Division I Championships, men's or women's (11)
- Most NCAA Division I Final Fours, men's or women's (20)
- Most NCAA Division I Tournament wins, men's or women's (121)
- Fastest women's coach to 700, 800, 900, 1,000 and 1,100 wins
- Fastest coach to 800, 900, 1,000 and 1,100 wins, any level, men's or women's
- With men's coaches Jim Calhoun (2004) and Kevin Ollie (2014), the only coaches at the same Division I school to win the men's and women's NCAA Tournaments in the same season
Dan
92-53, no championships yet
No knock on Dan Hurley, just pointing out Geno has a track record of figuring things out usually by the postseason.
In Geno we trust.
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Most likely closed because this horse has been beat to death. FF losses, any loss for that matter, and there’s a thread questioning Geno. And it’s the same thing over and over
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As an external follower-- one who relies on the posted games 8greatful for such services), I think there is a tendency to confuse a multiplicity of things. There is of course a few here who would take your head if you do anything less than bow down to GA. And of course the many who know how a game ended up in the loss column and what should have been done to secure the win. I for one (all knowing) find myself in front of my computer watching a re-run screaming 'stupid' to a player who made an errant pass. (Of course I could see it coming) I might even like the fact that CD played the bench or multiple players-- and some schools do.
Perhaps it is all about style. We are all spectators and so we can analyze a game or players without bringing-in the coach(s) and/or players. I'm free to move players around, in-and-out as I would like. This has little or nothing to do with real games or players. I am in agreement with the poster who wrote that it is find to have other opinions about how a game might be won; deducing that if we had done this and that the game would have been won, is useless-- a fallacy.
I don't know why Amari and Patterson are not able to help in a sustainable way. I don't watch or know anything about HS-basketball. I did see her in the 3x3 summer games and came away less than convinced when compared with the many here. I know that there are 2-3 members who follows recruitment and would be curious to have them comment on where they expected a player to be. I'm not asking for a criticism of a player, but a curious assessment based on what they saw in HS and what the coaches were after.(I find it meaningless when I read that this player scored 50-points in their last 2 games. AG had 40-points game, but I wouldn't call her a shooter? If she were then it is unfortunate for her and the team that the latter didn't develop that aspect of her game) I mentioned Amari because she gets little playing time, GA says that her skill-set is quite good, but it is clear to me that she doesn't move on offense. That must be a no no for a team running a motion offense.
Perhaps it is all about style. We are all spectators and so we can analyze a game or players without bringing-in the coach(s) and/or players. I'm free to move players around, in-and-out as I would like. This has little or nothing to do with real games or players. I am in agreement with the poster who wrote that it is find to have other opinions about how a game might be won; deducing that if we had done this and that the game would have been won, is useless-- a fallacy.
I don't know why Amari and Patterson are not able to help in a sustainable way. I don't watch or know anything about HS-basketball. I did see her in the 3x3 summer games and came away less than convinced when compared with the many here. I know that there are 2-3 members who follows recruitment and would be curious to have them comment on where they expected a player to be. I'm not asking for a criticism of a player, but a curious assessment based on what they saw in HS and what the coaches were after.(I find it meaningless when I read that this player scored 50-points in their last 2 games. AG had 40-points game, but I wouldn't call her a shooter? If she were then it is unfortunate for her and the team that the latter didn't develop that aspect of her game) I mentioned Amari because she gets little playing time, GA says that her skill-set is quite good, but it is clear to me that she doesn't move on offense. That must be a no no for a team running a motion offense.
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My perspective is strictly as a fan. I have never coached at a high level (coached my son's early elementary school after school league team - qualification to be a star you could actually throw the ball up high enough to get it in the hoop). I never played competitive ball (wrestled and played soccer through high school - pick up basketball games and neighborhood tennis).
I was a huge Lakers fan starting from the Jerry West days, never missed a game of Magic's era and was a fan through Kobe's retirement. I was a big Syracuse men's bball fan beginning in grad school at Uconn in the late seventies for about the next decade due to our close relationship with our best friends who hailed from Syracuse. Visited them and saw a lot of games live over many years while downing our share of 'dome foams'.
I began regularly watching the Uconn women play during 2000 and became somewhat obsessed during Maya's time. Never looked back. The way Uconn wcbb played the game was to me 'real basketball' and over time I quit watching the men both collegiately and professionally - the style just didn't appeal to me.
I was a lurker on the boneyard for many years before I actually joined. Almost joined on a couple occasions but just never pulled the trigger. During the 'Stewart years' I read fairly religiously but I became fairly disheartened by the combination of, at times rather brutal criticism of Sanyia Chong and at best discounting her contributions. I had followed her high school career in the Hudson Valley (I live across the Hudson from Ossining). She was vilified by many, ironically for being responsible for the only two loses of her entire Uconn career (the loss to Stanford her sophomore year ending one winning streak, and the loss to Mississippi which ended the longest basketball winning streak ever).
Yeah I know, none of this has anything to do with the title of this thread, Questioning coaching. Hopefully I'll get to that. I have a friend that is a truly gifted musician. He taught music and directed all the high school theater productions over a couple decades or so while also conducting and leading many church and community choirs and bands. On numerous occasions when we were at a less than stellar professional show or concert together he would come away from it commenting how incredibly awful the direction was or music direction was. He just couldn't not see that. From his 'perfectionist' viewpoint it just was so obvious exactly where any fault laid that it often spoiled the show or concert for him. I have no doubt that his assessments of where any short comings had come from - direction or performers - were accurate. I pretty much just knew that I 'liked the show or not'.
So I get it that, some of you with much more expertise than I just can't not see some of the faults in Geno's coaching. I really can't definitively say this or that negative situation was directly attributable to 'bad coaching'. I just don't see it from that level of culpability. Frankly, I am actually glad I don't have that degree of expertise.
I was a huge Lakers fan starting from the Jerry West days, never missed a game of Magic's era and was a fan through Kobe's retirement. I was a big Syracuse men's bball fan beginning in grad school at Uconn in the late seventies for about the next decade due to our close relationship with our best friends who hailed from Syracuse. Visited them and saw a lot of games live over many years while downing our share of 'dome foams'.
I began regularly watching the Uconn women play during 2000 and became somewhat obsessed during Maya's time. Never looked back. The way Uconn wcbb played the game was to me 'real basketball' and over time I quit watching the men both collegiately and professionally - the style just didn't appeal to me.
I was a lurker on the boneyard for many years before I actually joined. Almost joined on a couple occasions but just never pulled the trigger. During the 'Stewart years' I read fairly religiously but I became fairly disheartened by the combination of, at times rather brutal criticism of Sanyia Chong and at best discounting her contributions. I had followed her high school career in the Hudson Valley (I live across the Hudson from Ossining). She was vilified by many, ironically for being responsible for the only two loses of her entire Uconn career (the loss to Stanford her sophomore year ending one winning streak, and the loss to Mississippi which ended the longest basketball winning streak ever).
Yeah I know, none of this has anything to do with the title of this thread, Questioning coaching. Hopefully I'll get to that. I have a friend that is a truly gifted musician. He taught music and directed all the high school theater productions over a couple decades or so while also conducting and leading many church and community choirs and bands. On numerous occasions when we were at a less than stellar professional show or concert together he would come away from it commenting how incredibly awful the direction was or music direction was. He just couldn't not see that. From his 'perfectionist' viewpoint it just was so obvious exactly where any fault laid that it often spoiled the show or concert for him. I have no doubt that his assessments of where any short comings had come from - direction or performers - were accurate. I pretty much just knew that I 'liked the show or not'.
So I get it that, some of you with much more expertise than I just can't not see some of the faults in Geno's coaching. I really can't definitively say this or that negative situation was directly attributable to 'bad coaching'. I just don't see it from that level of culpability. Frankly, I am actually glad I don't have that degree of expertise.
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I very much agree. I've seen many instances where Ines, Amari and Ayanna have passed up open looks because they are hesitant to shoot. Shouldn't be that way.
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RedStickHusky
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Fair dinkum as my aussie friends like to say.
RedStickHusky
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The Dude abides.
HuskyNan
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Got to disagree with the bolded statement. No one person is responsible for a loss.
cohenzone
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Hurley‘s major sin is he is constantly being compared to Jim
Calhoun who some on the men’s board seem to have forgotten had some underperforming teams. A comment in this thread suggests GA doesn’t instill confidence by letting players play through mistakes. I think they never saw Jim Calhoun’s merry go round substitutions. .
This season has been borderline miraculous. For a huge chunk of the season they have had 4 players on the bench (if Brady is as good as advertised) who alone would be NC contenders. So with a depleted team that is going through an exhausting stretch, they take #1 down to the wire then have to travel to play a good, disciplined team and only were out of it the last few minutes. And, BTW, Geno subbed a good bit in this game. The world ended, we lost 2 in a row for the second time in 30 years. Geno isn’t perfect, but even when half full like this year he manages to put out way more Rolls Royces than Edsels.
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