Question on Recruiting (offer and acceptance) | The Boneyard

Question on Recruiting (offer and acceptance)

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Once a school offers, how does it slow roll a player's or multiple players' acceptance if they are the second or lower choices, and the higher choice is still in play? Is the school taking a chance by offering multiple players from the same position too soon or will they recruit over a player after the offer (e.g., WV's recruitment of Hinds over Boatright)? Presumably, the player may accept as soon as offered, even if it is not official until the LOI is received. I also know a coach can state that they will stop recruiting a position once filled, but who knows if that will happen.
 
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There are three steps in a player committing verbally to a program:
1) Coach offers player
2) Player accepts offer
3) Coach accepts the acceptance of that offer.

The initial offer in step #1 doesn't mean a whole lot. In most cases, it's just the coach telling the player that he's going to start recruiting him. The coach knows that the player isn't going to accept immediately, and if the player is a "B lister" then the coach won't push all that hard for a visit and a commitment until the "A listers" are off the board.

There's a lot of finesse involved in making sure the B listers don't commit too early, but also don't know that they are B listers.
 
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There are three steps in a player committing verbally to a program:
1) Coach offers player
2) Player accepts offer
3) Coach accepts the acceptance of that offer.

The initial offer in step #1 doesn't mean a whole lot. In most cases, it's just the coach telling the player that he's going to start recruiting him. The coach knows that the player isn't going to accept immediately, and if the player is a "B lister" then the coach won't push all that hard for a visit and a commitment until the "A listers" are off the board.

There's a lot of finesse involved in making sure the B listers don't commit too early, but also don't know that they are B listers.


Gonna have to disagree with all of this.
 
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Gonna have to disagree with all of this.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/hi...-concern-for-high-school-football-coaches.ece

The link refers to football recruiting, but the same general concept applies to basketball.

In general, the concept of an offer has been diluted over the last 15 years, according to the experts. It is not uncommon, Luginbill said, for a player to receive an offer from a school, only to discover that the school wouldn’t recognize his oral commitment without other targets going elsewhere.

“Just getting an offer doesn’t mean much anymore,” Kennedy said.
 
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/hi...-concern-for-high-school-football-coaches.ece

The link refers to football recruiting, but the same general concept applies to basketball.

In general, the concept of an offer has been diluted over the last 15 years, according to the experts. It is not uncommon, Luginbill said, for a player to receive an offer from a school, only to discover that the school wouldn’t recognize his oral commitment without other targets going elsewhere.

“Just getting an offer doesn’t mean much anymore,” Kennedy said.
That article is about offering 7th and 8th graders football scholarships. Obviously those are taken with a grain of salt, the whole idea that it even happens is ridiculous. It's not at all the same as offering high school juniors and seniors basketball scholarships.
 
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That article is about offering 7th and 8th graders football scholarships. Obviously those are taken with a grain of salt, the whole idea that it even happens is ridiculous. It's not at all the same as offering high school juniors and seniors basketball scholarships.

I only linked to the entire article so you wouldn't think I pulled the excerpt I pasted out of thin air. But the concept absolutely does apply to basketball recruiting. There is no obligation on the part of the coach offering a scholarship to honor that offer at any time the player wants to accept it.

Take Khadeen Carrington as an example. When we offered him back in 2012, we probably would have taken him on the spot. Since then, we landed Rodney Purvis and Daniel Hamilton and now have less of a need for a shooting guard than we did a few months ago. For the sake of argument, if we assume that Ollie only wants one more guard in this class, would he take Carrington today if he thinks we have a legitimate shot at Josh Perkins? Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't - but these are the kinds of decisions that coaches make all the time.
 

CAHUSKY

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That article is about offering 7th and 8th graders football scholarships. Obviously those are taken with a grain of salt, the whole idea that it even happens is ridiculous. It's not at all the same as offering high school juniors and seniors basketball scholarships.
It actually is pretty similar. Coaches offer a ton of kids, some of them who they really want and will take a commitment from immediately and others are conditional based on another player being more desired first. Schools have plan A guys who they take immediately, plan B guys they take after plan A turns them down so on.
 
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I personally don't consider conditional offers to be a scholarship offer.
 
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It actually is pretty similar. Coaches offer a ton of kids, some of them who they really want and will take a commitment from immediately and others are conditional based on another player being more desired first. Schools have plan A guys who they take immediately, plan B guys they take after plan A turns them down so on.

This sounds plausible. If this is the case, I wonder who are our conditional and firm offers.
 

Husky25

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This sounds plausible. If this is the case, I wonder who are our conditional and firm offers.

Conditional often refers to something that individual can control, such as GPA and performance. That's why teams can offer 14 year olds. Any number of excuses can invalidate an offer.

Scholarship offers are not unlike contractual offers in law or business, with one key difference. An offer may be rescinded even after its been accepted, because the verbal is nonbinding on both parties.

Any lawyer or 20 year old business student can rattle off the four resolutions to an offer (Acceptance, Rejection, Counter-Offer, Rescission), all of which answer and close the original offer. In terms of scholarships, there is really no opportunity to counter and an S-A may reject an offer as a matter of course (i.e. accepting another school's offer).

However, because of the NLI day, official acceptance cannot be made until that specific date. As a result, the offer is held open and valid until the fax comes in or a school rescinds the offer prior to official acceptance.

Its obviously not a good practice for schools to rescind offers (though it does happen), especially after the verbal, even if it is non-binding. An individual recruit gets one shot at the process, so recruits as a general group are able to back out of the verbals without staining the rest of the population. If a coach gets that reputation, not many players are going to want to commit early or at all. The coach is left with up to 5 empty scholarships that year. If that happens more than once in a 3 year period, that coach ain't coachin' no more. So the leverage is still with the recruit.

In this case, and as stated above, a school may pay extra attention to Recruit A vs. deemphasizing B, until they know where A is leaning, and then offer B.

There are thousands of recruits and only a few hundred D1 programs (for Basketball, only 120 D1A football programs) You hear all the time that So & So school paid attention to me from the start so I went with the school that wanted me, when in fact the school wouldn't mind having both, but was playing the odds that one of them was going somewhere else.
 

UConn Dan

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Care to break out the finer points for those with no Insider account or access to ESPN (either real or self imposed)?
No time to breakdown, but here's the article:
What does a scholarship offer mean?
in.gif


May, 7, 2013
May 7
12:54
PM ET
By Adam Finkelstein | ESPN.com
Every Friday, I write a collection of recruiting news and notes to sum up the week that was in the Northeast region. Last week’s article was essentially a running tally of Northeast prospects and who they had claimed scholarship offers from in the previous five days. With the April evaluation period having just come to a close, it was far and away the longest list I have produced this year.

By the time I was done, I felt compelled to add this disclaimer: Reporting scholarship offers is one of the more difficult things to do in recruiting, because it’s almost impossible to confirm from the source since college coaches aren't permitted to speak about prospective student-athletes. Therefore, all offers are only as good as the source of the information and should all be considered “fluid.”

So what does that really mean? Essentially, it means that while scholarship offers are often perceived to be definitive, more often than not they are anything but.

To better illustrate that point, here are three conversations I’ve had firsthand in recent years:

Conversation No. 1: It was last summer in the final week of the July evaluation period. I was standing next to a high-major college head coach, who asked me for my opinion about a player. I answered the question, but followed up with a question of my own.

“Haven’t you already offered him,” I asked.

“Aw hell, I don’t know,” he responded. “We might have.”

Conversation No. 2: It was two summers ago and there was a prospect whose recruitment had taken off, leading him to essentially pick up new scholarship offers every day. I had a conversation with a high-major assistant coach that went like this:

“What’s the latest with [the player’s] recruitment,” he asked.

“Apparently he has a ton of offers, but supposedly you guys are in there pretty good,” I answered.

“I’m not even sure we can take him,” the coach responded.

“But you just offered, right?” I asked.

“I had to do that just to stay in the mix,” the assistant answered. “[The head coach] doesn’t even know I did.”

Conversation No. 3: Last August, just after the end of the live evaluation period, I got a call from an assistant coach at a school.

“I just read on Twitter that we offered [player 1] and [player 2],” he said.

“You didn’t know?” I asked.

“No, because we didn’t offer,” the coach responded. “We barely know who those guys are. [The AAU coach] called and said we should be on the kids, but that was it. Then we see on Twitter that we supposedly offered them.”

***
The moral of these three stories is this: Scholarship offers are nowhere near as tangible as they may sometimes appear. Whether it’s a college coach, AAU coach, parent or even the player himself, there are plenty of scenarios where people can be motivated to create the allusion of an offer, even if one doesn’t exist.

In today’s era of social media, those allusions can spread like wildfire until they are widely perceived to be cold, hard facts. But in many cases, perception doesn’t match reality.

In its purest form, a scholarship offer is on the table if, and only if, that school would accept a commitment from the prospect on that very day. If the coaching staff is unsure or unwilling to make that commitment, then the player doesn’t have an offer.

Moreover, those true scholarship offers typically come directly from the head coach’s mouth to the player’s ears and are quickly reiterated to the AAU/grassroots coach and the high school coach to avoid any potential for miscommunication. If a prospect doesn’t hear the offer firsthand or hears it from an assistant coach, there is reason to be skeptical.

Even legitimate offers aren’t contractually binding, so there’s a definite yet undefined statute of limitations on them. How does a prospect know if his offer is no longer on the table? As soon as the phone stops ringing and that school stops pursuing him as aggressively, it’s pretty clear the school has moved on. If the school has changed coaching staffs, it’s starting from square one. If it has landed a commitment from a prospect in the same class and position, again, it’s a good bet the initial offer no longer stands.

Ultimately, the only true way to confirm a scholarship offer is to go right to the source: the college head coach. But the problem is twofold. First, college coaches aren’t allowed to comment on recruitable student-athletes. Second, as illustrated by the first conversation above, many college coaches don’t take these offers nearly as seriously as prospects and their parents and coaches do.

So with less clarity and more misinformation than ever before flying around online, what can be done about the issue of scholarship offers? The reality is that because there’s nothing binding about them, change isn’t going to come by way of the NCAA, nor should it need to.

Instead, the answer lies in education, awareness and maturity on the part of the prospect, his family and his coaches. They need to be aware of the fact that college coaches are sometimes intentionally ambiguous; be able to identify the warning signs of less concrete scholarship offers; understand the fleeting nature of even true offers; and temper their enthusiasm when rushing to their computer or smartphone to promote their latest news.

Admittedly, my weekly news and notes story might not be quite as long, but the disclaimer at the end might also not be necessary anymore.
 

Husky25

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Even legitimate offers aren’t contractually binding, so there’s a definite yet undefined statute of limitations on them. How does a prospect know if his offer is no longer on the table? As soon as the phone stops ringing and that school stops pursuing him as aggressively, it’s pretty clear the school has moved on. If the school has changed coaching staffs, it’s starting from square one. If it has landed a commitment from a prospect in the same class and position, again, it’s a good bet the initial offer no longer stands.

I guess I stand corrected on my "Programs don't rescind offers often" comment.

Everything else seems to hold true though...

This thread reminds me of that Offensive lineman from out west that said he was being heavily recruited by Cal and Oregon State. He had this huge press conference in his school gym and put the CAL hat on, only weeks later it turned out that he was never offered a Div 1A scholarship to begin with. ESPN did an Outside the Lines on it.
 
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