Question about our seniors

[UConn82]

Hi,

A good number of BYers know much more than I about basketball. Therefore, I ask for input, so that I can learn.

Ono, CW, and E are all seniors. They were all very highly rated coming out of high school--CW was #1, E was #2, and Ono around #4.

Given that, one would expect each to play like an AA, especially in their senior year.

Yet, to my untrained understanding, none do so--not just yesterday, but rather habitually.

Why?

Is E still hurting. The word on the street is that she was finally healthy this year. Maybe she is playing out of position at PG. But that seems not the full answer.

CW seems so inconsistent. Are my expectations for her too high?

Ono never takes over a game, again to my untrained eye. And she seems not to play well against the best competition, when we need her the most.

I am not trying to bash the seniors. I just want to understand.

Thoughts?

 

[Conndog]

The one who I think is most likely to get replaced by a healthy Azzi is Evina. She is suffering something and her shooting has been the primary change- her rebounding is good still, but she is very reluctant to shoot. Azzi, on the other hand, will be great addition scoring wise. Probably will start platooning them both, maybe Evina to start game but then Azzi comes in for solid 10 minutes to get used to game speed.
I think Ono will have decent games still and so too will Christyn. Christen is still good defender who can shoot too and is great at back door cuts.

 

[Topdawg]

Some players get very cautious when there is a short bench. That impacts their ability to play smoothly. Competence and confidence alone are not enough in these circumstances. You need fearlessness and swag. For different reasons, think Nika, Dorka, and Caroline. The seniors will do better when the bench is stronger. They will then take more risks.. go figure..just my 2 cents..

 

[TeamFirst!]

E was the best player on the team just 2-3 games ago. We are over reacting. If anything, Ono is playing better than last year to me, overall. Efficiency is important and they all are certainly trying. Let's face it. The competition is good also.

 

[veryolddog]

I originally thought you were talking about those over 65 on this board when I saw your head line.

 

[CocoHusky]

@STLCardinal posted some comments from Geno's presser in another thread that are very applicable hearzz;
************************************************
Geno from his press conference, in answer to a question about parity."
“…I also think a lot of the highly rated recruits around the country, ones a lot of people say are sure-fire, can’t miss, great players coming out of high school, and all the recruiting services tout how great these kids are, are quite frankly not that good, relative to a few years ago. They’re not that good. So what ends up happening is those next level kids, now they’re better than they’ve ever been, and they’re going to different schools and they’re knocking off these teams that have these big time recruits. You’re starting to see more of that and you’re gonna keep seeing more of that….On the women’s side, what would be our version of one and dones, they’re not as good as they used to be. So it’s given that next level team that was always on the periphery of top twenty, maybe twenty-five, thirty, (or) fifteen, could never crack the top ten, they’re not necessarily getting those big time recruits but they’re getting really, really good players who come, show up every night, bust their butt and beat these other guys. I think that’s gonna happen more and more and more.”
************************************************
There is no question that CW , ONO and EW have underachieved relative to even their own expectations as UCONN players. CW as a freshman stated that "People are going to start to feel UCONN"
ONO's sister in law Dearica Hamby compared her to Elena Delle Donne Candace Parker and predicted stardom for her under Geno's tutelage. A few silly BY touted EW as the best and most impactful transfer ever in the NCAA.

This senior class is a few shorts months from graduation and perhaps the most disappointing aspect is their collective inability to lead in times of adversity and to play consistently AKA like SENIORS. CW spent an entire year battling a crisis of confidence and is prone to disappear in big games and big moments Eg. CW played 40 in the Louisville game- perhaps one of the quietest 40 minutes games in recent UCONN WBB history. ONO continues not to realize her value to the team by simply avoiding silly fouls and staying on the floor Eg. ND game was perhaps her best game of her career and one in which she fouled out. I would also add Dorka to this senior group. Eg., 1st half of Creighton game Dorka looked like an AA-2 second half she looked pedestrian. I remarked in the Creighton game chat that Evina does not look well. I am not sure if that's injury or illness but she is not the same player from earlier in the season.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Why is it that Gleyber Torres can hit as a second baseman and can't hit as a shortstop? Why does Evina sometimes seem tentative to take her shot as a point but was a consistent 10 (or so) PPG as a 2? I don't have the foggiest idea.

Christyn was highly ranked in high school where she dominated in a game where the tallest opponents were between 5'10" and 6'2" and she was the quickest, most athletic player on the floor. In college it is a different story. And, she has never developed consistency with her 3 point shot that would enable her to slash more often.

ONO is playing much better as she has ramped up her rebounding aggressiveness. With the advent of Paige Bueckers her offensive responsibilities have changed where she is much more of a facilitator. Her much improved 20 foot shot will pay many dividends with the return of Paige and Azzi.

 

[CocoHusky]

Why is it that Gleyber Torres can hit as a second baseman and can't hit as a shortstop? Why does Evina sometimes seem tentative to take her shot as a point but was a consistent 10 (or so) PPG as a 2? I don't have the foggiest idea.

Christyn was highly ranked in high school where she dominated in a game where the tallest opponents were between 5'10" and 6'2" and she was the quickest, most athletic player on the floor. In college it is a different story. And, she has never developed consistency with her 3 point shot that would enable her to slash more often.

ONO is playing much better as she has ramped up her rebounding aggressiveness. With the advent of Paige Bueckers her offensive responsibilities have changed where she is much more of a facilitator. Her much improved 20 foot shot will pay many dividends with the return of Paige and Azzi.

Not picking on your post per say I'm just sick tired of hearing this: "Things will get better once Paige returns."
UCONN WBB is starting 4 Seniors and a Freshman. The best player has been a Freshman. What does that say about these 4 seniors?

 

[HuskylnSC]

"Things will get better once Paige returns."

I addressed the 3 seniors and the only thing I said about the return of Paige is that ONO's improved shooting from 20 feet will pay dividends and it will. The fourth senior had 10 points 3 assists 3 rebounds and a block and played the game the way we expected.

Also after watching the spark a rusty Nika provided in limited minutes, do you doubt that the team will play better when Paige and Azzi return.

 

[Jeff H]

Whatever anyone's opinion of Christyn, given 4 full (non-covid shortened) seasons she likely would have finished her UConn career a 2000 point scorer.

 

[sun]

I am not trying to bash the seniors. I just want to understand.

A lot of really good sports teams end up playing down to the level of their competition.
That means that for whatever reason, the team ends up playing just good enough to win.
If the win is what matters the most, then the seniors are just like anyone else on the team and will have their ups and downs.

I like CW's new hair style and that she's trying out a new look.
She gets criticized a lot, maybe because she been trying to overcome a seemingly shy or timid personality.
Evina has said that she loves her chocolate milk, especially on game day.
The seniors are just people like anyone else and have their own personalities, strengths and weaknesses.
Everything is susceptible to change.
Look at Aubrey, she went from being a top athlete to not being able to play at all.
She may come back in the future, we can only wait & see how it will affect her.

 

[CocoHusky]

I addressed the 3 seniors and the only thing I said about the return of Paige is that ONO's improved shooting from 20 feet will pay dividends and it will. The fourth senior had 10 points 3 assists 3 rebounds and a block and played the game the way we expected.
Also after watching the spark a rusty Nika provided in limited minutes, do you doubt that the team will play better when Paige and Azzi return.

I have no doubt the team will play better once Paige returns.
I also didn't have any doubt that the 4 seniors would be playing more consistently either, yet here we are.

 

[Zarathustra]

I think GENO is hiding some "stuff" preparing for the
upcoming game in Oregon against the DUCKS! No
showing your cards before the " showdown".
Note: " E" took almost NO SHOTS, Dorka
did not show any offense in the second half. Is this
by chance or design???

 

[LoboDays]

@STLCardinal posted some comments from Geno's presser in another thread that are very applicable hearzz;
************************************************
Geno from his press conference, in answer to a question about parity."
“…I also think a lot of the highly rated recruits around the country, ones a lot of people say are sure-fire, can’t miss, great players coming out of high school, and all the recruiting services tout how great these kids are, are quite frankly not that good, relative to a few years ago. They’re not that good. So what ends up happening is those next level kids, now they’re better than they’ve ever been, and they’re going to different schools and they’re knocking off these teams that have these big time recruits. You’re starting to see more of that and you’re gonna keep seeing more of that….On the women’s side, what would be our version of one and dones, they’re not as good as they used to be. So it’s given that next level team that was always on the periphery of top twenty, maybe twenty-five, thirty, (or) fifteen, could never crack the top ten, they’re not necessarily getting those big time recruits but they’re getting really, really good players who come, show up every night, bust their butt and beat these other guys. I think that’s gonna happen more and more and more.”
************************************************
There is no question that CW , ONO and EW have underachieved relative to even their own expectations as UCONN players. CW as a freshman stated that "People are going to start to feel UCONN"
ONO's sister in law Dearica Hamby compared her to Elena Delle Donne Candace Parker and predicted stardom for her under Geno's tutelage. A few silly BY touted EW as the best and most impactful transfer ever in the NCAA.

This senior class is a few shorts months from graduation and perhaps the most disappointing aspect is their collective inability to lead in times of adversity and to play consistently AKA like SENIORS. CW spent an entire year battling a crisis of confidence and is prone to disappear in big games and big moments Eg. CW played 40 in the Louisville game- perhaps one of the quietest 40 minutes games in recent UCONN WBB history. ONO continues not to realize her value to the team by simply avoiding silly fouls and staying on the floor Eg. ND game was perhaps her best game of her career and one in which she fouled out. I would also add Dorka to this senior group. Eg., 1st half of Creighton game Dorka looked like an AA-2 second half she looked pedestrian. I remarked in the Creighton game chat that Evina does not look well. I am not sure if that's injury or illness but she is not the same player from earlier in the season.

I had never seen that quote from Geno. He is right. Recruiting is a crap shoot. It’s impossible to predict which players will grow or plateau. Which will become a leader or a wallflower. Which will want the ball with 5 seconds left or want to let others handle the pressure.

One possible reason for the underperformance of our seniors this season is the addition of a super star last season. When you are the supporting cast, no one is expecting as much as they are now with the super star out of the lineup. now. The pressure is on them and they don’t seem to be the players that can rise to it.

Before yesterdays game, they showed a clip of Geno talking to the team. He told them that all the pressure is on him and not on the players. That’s a coach who could see that his seniors where feeling pressure. We know they are better than we have seen recently. Maybe confidence will be restored as we get deep into the BE schedule against teams that couldn’t beat good high school teams. Or maybe they are just good college basketball players needing a great one to lead them.

 

[veryolddog]

From his disussion, it sounds like UConn should add a psychaitrist to its staff for the players or go after players who have less than stellar rankings so they will bust their butts when playing for the team.

 

[CocoHusky]

I had never seen that quote from Geno. He is right. Recruiting is a crap shoot. It’s impossible to predict which players will grow or plateau. Which will become a leader or a wallflower. Which will want the ball with 5 seconds left or want to let others handle the pressure.

One possible reason for the underperformance of our seniors this season is the addition of a super star last season. When you are the supporting cast, no one is expecting as much as they are now with the super star out of the lineup. now. The pressure is on them and they don’t seem to be the players that can rise to it.

Before yesterdays game, they showed a clip of Geno talking to the team. He told them that all the pressure is on him and not on the players. That’s a coach who could see that his seniors where feeling pressure. We know they are better than we have seen recently. Maybe confidence will be restored as we get deep into the BE schedule against teams that couldn’t beat good high school teams. Or maybe they are just good college basketball players needing a great one to lead them.

I don't believe ONO or Christyn struggles have anything to do with the arrival of Paige.
CW struggled most in her sophomore season-before Paige arrived.
Likewise ONO's inconsistency began in big games when she was a starter as a sophomore and was also before Paige arrived.

 

[CocoHusky]

I think GENO is hiding some "stuff" preparing for the
upcoming game in Oregon against the DUCKS! No
showing your cards before the " showdown".
Note: " E" took almost NO SHOTS, Dorka
did not show any offense in the second half. Is this
by chance or design???

Evina played 33 minutes and took 2 shots yesterday. If that was by "design" it was a piss poor one as were the 6 turnovers she committed.

 

[msf22b]

To reiterate a point I've made before...

I'm not a big statistics man...but the stats and what my eyes tell me
is that the seniors...(perhaps E excluded...not sure what her problem is...)
are playing their normal game

Which is: to quite significantly underachieve the expectations we (and Geno) had for them when recruited.

That is undeniable and most likely (but not with certainty) will not significantly change.

I'm already thinking ahead to the next level...
They won't be the most highly recruited going forward...
And if they don't make an immediate impression may have difficulty retaining a roster spot...perhaps Olivia excepted (you can't teach hight)
and the example of Mercedes Russel always comes to mind...
How useful she has become with different coaching
and how much better Danger is as a pro...but she was dang good in college.
So it could happen...Will it?
i'd bet against.

 

[LoboDays]

I think GENO is hiding some "stuff" preparing for the
upcoming game in Oregon against the DUCKS! No
showing your cards before the " showdown".
Note: " E" took almost NO SHOTS, Dorka
did not show any offense in the second half. Is this
by chance or design???

Hysterical. I can almost see Geno’s pre-game instructions….

“Ok, we have Oregon coming up soon so I don’t want to see anyone looking good out there today. We can’t let them know what to practice for. Evina, your job is to not shoot and turn the ball over from time to time. CW, throw up your usual bricks. Dorka, try not to do much of anything in the second half. ONO, just sort of wander out to the top of the key from time to time and maybe get in some foul trouble. Oregon is a big game for us. Let’s not mess it up by looking good today.”

 

[Happydad745]

I can use myself as a reference of one example....I have played a lot of Senior Softball, I am a Shortstop. Our team adds players when we are short. We we add a superior player to our team, I perform better. I think CW and EV really miss Paige on the floor. She helps them play better by taking some of the pressure off of their output.

 

[BobbyJ]

@STLCardinal posted some comments from Geno's presser in another thread that are very applicable hearzz;
************************************************
Geno from his press conference, in answer to a question about parity."
“…I also think a lot of the highly rated recruits around the country, ones a lot of people say are sure-fire, can’t miss, great players coming out of high school, and all the recruiting services tout how great these kids are, are quite frankly not that good, relative to a few years ago. They’re not that good. So what ends up happening is those next level kids, now they’re better than they’ve ever been, and they’re going to different schools and they’re knocking off these teams that have these big time recruits. You’re starting to see more of that and you’re gonna keep seeing more of that….On the women’s side, what would be our version of one and dones, they’re not as good as they used to be. So it’s given that next level team that was always on the periphery of top twenty, maybe twenty-five, thirty, (or) fifteen, could never crack the top ten, they’re not necessarily getting those big time recruits but they’re getting really, really good players who come, show up every night, bust their butt and beat these other guys. I think that’s gonna happen more and more and more.”
************************************************
There is no question that CW , ONO and EW have underachieved relative to even their own expectations as UCONN players. CW as a freshman stated that "People are going to start to feel UCONN"
ONO's sister in law Dearica Hamby compared her to Elena Delle Donne Candace Parker and predicted stardom for her under Geno's tutelage. A few silly BY touted EW as the best and most impactful transfer ever in the NCAA.

This senior class is a few shorts months from graduation and perhaps the most disappointing aspect is their collective inability to lead in times of adversity and to play consistently AKA like SENIORS. CW spent an entire year battling a crisis of confidence and is prone to disappear in big games and big moments Eg. CW played 40 in the Louisville game- perhaps one of the quietest 40 minutes games in recent UCONN WBB history. ONO continues not to realize her value to the team by simply avoiding silly fouls and staying on the floor Eg. ND game was perhaps her best game of her career and one in which she fouled out. I would also add Dorka to this senior group. Eg., 1st half of Creighton game Dorka looked like an AA-2 second half she looked pedestrian. I remarked in the Creighton game chat that Evina does not look well. I am not sure if that's injury or illness but she is not the same player from earlier in the season.

Looks like Dearica and the rest of those folks have serious future potential in talent evaluation.

 

[Carnac]

I had never seen that quote from Geno. He is right. Recruiting is a crap shoot. It’s impossible to predict which players will grow or plateau. Which will become a leader or a wallflower. Which will want the ball with 5 seconds left or want to let others handle the pressure.

One possible reason for the underperformance of our seniors this season is the addition of a super star last season. When you are the supporting cast, no one is expecting as much as they are now with the super star out of the lineup. now. The pressure is on them and they don’t seem to be the players that can rise to it.

Before yesterdays game, they showed a clip of Geno talking to the team. He told them that all the pressure is on him and not on the players. That’s a coach who could see that his seniors where feeling pressure. We know they are better than we have seen recently. Maybe confidence will be restored as we get deep into the BE schedule against teams that couldn’t beat good high school teams. Or maybe they are just good college basketball players needing a great one to lead them.

Sometimes it is a crap shoot in figuring out who will be a star at this level. Players with a junk yard dawg persona and mentality are the players that won't come up small in BIG games. Rankings are nice, but don't tell the real makeup or fiber of a player. Who knew our three seniors would under achieve at this point when they were seniors in high school? Give me a junk yard dawg for a recruit. Someone as Geno says.........will be great when he needs them to be. We're seeing that national class rankings don't mean a whole lot.

Most of the top 10-15 teams don't have a lot or any top 50 players on their roster, yet they are competitive and they're winning. Their players show up and compete hard every game. Tennessee's (13-1) drought is over. They're ranked number 7 and are on the come. Look at their roster. How many top 50 players do they have? [Tenn roster]. Look at #6 Indiana's (11-2) roster. Same thing. How many top 50 players do they have on their roster? Look at #4 Arizona (10-0). How many of their players have you even heard of? These teams are getting it done without BIG NAME players. They compete, they don't fade in the 4th quarter, and they have bench players that can play. Arizona was 1 basket away from being the national champion last year.

Top ranked players are nice, but they can't help you if they can't compete at a high level consistently at this level. You'd better get it right the first time. You seldom find real "ballers", a player that can come in right now and help you win in the portal. If NaLyssa Smith (#14 Baylor 10-3) had chosen to leave when Kim Mulkey did, she would have had her choice of schools to transfer to. Most top 10 programs would have courted her hard. Get it right the first time.

 

[LoboDays]

Certain coaches are proving that you can turn good players into great teams.

 

[Carnac]

To reiterate a point I've made before...

I'm not a big statistics man...but the stats and what my eyes tell me
is that the seniors...(perhaps E excluded...not sure what her problem is...)
are playing their normal game

Which is: to quite significantly underachieve the expectations we (and Geno) had for them when recruited.

That is undeniable and most likely (but not with certainty) will not significantly change.

I'm already thinking ahead to the next level...
They won't be the most highly recruited going forward...
And if they don't make an immediate impression may have difficulty retaining a roster spot...perhaps Olivia excepted (you can't teach hight)
and the example of Mercedes Russel always comes to mind...
How useful she has become with different coaching
and how much better Danger is as a pro...but she was dang good in college.
So it could happen...Will it?
i'd bet against.

You make some excellent points.