Question about Online Learning Issue

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Forgive my ignorance on this subject. I have not been a student for years, and have no family members in school who I can ask.

I have read how college kids and pre-college kids hate online classes. But, though I am retired, I have viewed professional webinars where the presenter gave the webinar from his or her home on Zoom, and the participants could raise their hand and ask a question. The presenter was visible, but usually the attendees were not. Full viewing options certainly could be added.

If that is the format, rather than just having a written lecture format without seeing or hearing the instructor, why is that so bad?

I understand nothing is as instructive and stimulating as being in a class with other classmates present.

Especially for large lecture hall classes that are by nature impersonal, why couldn't professors do it that way.
If the students want to view each other, that works for Zoom. Same thing for smaller classes.

I realize there are other issues about professors objecting about in-person classes and students not wanting to overpay for less than a full college experience. I am just trying to understand how they are defining online classes, and whether the webinar format with a live instructor and seeing other students on Zoom, is or is not a satisfactory learning option.

I have no dog in this fight. I am just trying to learn the issue better.

Thanks for any input.
 
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Forgive my ignorance on this subject. I have not been a student for years, and have no family members in school who I can ask.

I have read how college kids and pre-college kids hate online classes. But, though I am retired, I have viewed professional webinars where the presenter gave the webinar from his or her home on Zoom, and the participants could raise their hand and ask a question. The presenter was visible, but usually the attendees were not. Full viewing options certainly could be added.

If that is the format, rather than just having a written lecture format without seeing or hearing the instructor, why is that so bad?

I understand nothing is as instructive and stimulating as being in a class with other classmates present.

Especially for large lecture hall classes that are by nature impersonal, why couldn't professors do it that way.
If the students want to view each other, that works for Zoom. Same thing for smaller classes.

I realize there are other issues about professors objecting about in-person classes and students not wanting to overpay for less than a full college experience. I am just trying to understand how they are defining online classes, and whether the webinar format with a live instructor and seeing other students on Zoom, is or is not a satisfactory learning option.

I have no dog in this fight. I am just trying to learn the issue better.

Thanks for any input.

The negativity has to do with the stagnant nature of the interactions on Zoom and also student distraction.

Studies have shown that online is a lot less effective in terms of knowledge retention and student outcomes.

It should be said that online course development is poor and we invest very little in creating technology and coursework that might be highly successful online, and this is probably because there is very little profit in developing such software.

Lastly, we are social animals. This makes the classroom experience difficult to reproduce, but perhaps not impossible.
 

Wordbomar

"Walker on McGee with four.."
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Number 1: Over half of the professors don't offer zoom sessions. They just give busy work assignments and due dates.

Number 2: A lot of professors are extremely technologically challenged and don't answer emails or messages in a timely manner. (Or post things incorrectly, forget to put things in discussion boards, etc)

Number 3: The learning environment is just different. The zoom sessions are very stagnant and less natural. Every educator will tell you that, and students have a tougher time engaging in this style.
 
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Number 1: Over half of the professors don't offer zoom sessions. They just give busy work assignments and due dates.

Number 2: A lot of professors are extremely technologically challenged and don't answer emails or messages in a timely manner. (Or post things incorrectly, forget to put things in discussion boards, etc)

Number 3: The learning environment is just different. The zoom sessions are very stagnant and less natural. Every educator will tell you that, and students have a tougher time engaging in this style.

On #2, all faculty are required to take the summer training sessions if they don't have a handle on it. Normal turnaround on email is less than 48 hours. This is common practice given the deluge of emails and the workload.
 

Wordbomar

"Walker on McGee with four.."
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On #2, all faculty are required to take the summer training sessions if they don't have a handle on it. Normal turnaround on email is less than 48 hours. This is common practice given the deluge of emails and the workload.

I know they're trying their hardest, and it's not ideal cirumstances. But in a normal online class format, email turnaround is much quicker and the classes are more organized. I was just explaining why students are saying online doesn't work as well.
 
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I had great success with online classes. Granted I was motivated to do so, and the classes were only 25-30 people. It involved active daily discussion as well as weekly assignments on our own time. Also, didn't take them at UConn....

But for lecture classes, as well as the overwhelming multitude of kids taking it solely because it fills a requirement (and burns money), it must be a nightmare for all involved....
 

Dream Jobbed 2.0

“Most definitely”
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I type this from my dining room table in an online discussion of a webinar as part of UConn’s Admin Prep Program. This is now my 3rd class in this format. It’s already much more interactive and fluid. Educators (good ones) adapt. Not ideal but it’s probably not what people are picturing.
 
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Online learning is different in the fact that you, the student, is taking control of their own learning. They are doing the work instead of the teacher/professor doing all of the work themselves with the students just copying down stuff. Also, if you have a question you need to advocate for yourself as no one else will. In normal class, another student can ask a question that you might have had without saying anything.

Students nowadays, I feel, are told what to do and when to do it, instead of thinking for themselves. They've never had to think for themselves before the 'rona hit. Students who are independent thinkers probably did very well since school closed. Those that aren't did poorly.

Learning styles don't actually make a difference. Studies have shown that just because you "might" be better with hands-on learning doesn't mean you can't learn through auditory or visual processes. You just have to work harder at those and many kids choose not to.
 
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Online learning is different in the fact that you, the student, is taking control of their own learning. They are doing the work instead of the teacher/professor doing all of the work themselves with the students just copying down stuff. Also, if you have a question you need to advocate for yourself as no one else will. In normal class, another student can ask a question that you might have had without saying anything.

Students nowadays, I feel, are told what to do and when to do it, instead of thinking for themselves. They've never had to think for themselves before the 'rona hit. Students who are independent thinkers probably did very well since school closed. Those that aren't did poorly.

Learning styles don't actually make a difference. Studies have shown that just because you "might" be better with hands-on learning doesn't mean you can't learn through auditory or visual processes. You just have to work harder at those and many kids choose not to.
As a viewer of several legal webinars, and not as a student, I found the power point presentations coupled with a good lecturer who explained and amplified the power point, to be satisfying. It beats traveling to a seminar. Maybe part of it is that I don't have to take a test at some point in the future. If the lecturer is stimulating and you can view him or her, absent the social interaction of being there in person, I cannot see why the experience cannot be positive.
 
C

Chief00

On #2, all faculty are required to take the summer training sessions if they don't have a handle on it. Normal turnaround on email is less than 48 hours. This is common practice given the deluge of emails and the workload.
So the student’s now don’t know what they are experiencing LOL. Respectfully, it’s time to retire.
 
C

Chief00

Online learning is different in the fact that you, the student, is taking control of their own learning. They are doing the work instead of the teacher/professor doing all of the work themselves with the students just copying down stuff. Also, if you have a question you need to advocate for yourself as no one else will. In normal class, another student can ask a question that you might have had without saying anything.

Students nowadays, I feel, are told what to do and when to do it, instead of thinking for themselves. They've never had to think for themselves before the 'rona hit. Students who are independent thinkers probably did very well since school closed. Those that aren't did poorly.

Learning styles don't actually make a difference. Studies have shown that just because you "might" be better with hands-on learning doesn't mean you can't learn through auditory or visual processes. You just have to work harder at those and many kids choose not to.
This won’t work great for kids from urban schools that need that support.
 

Chin Diesel

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Been doing my master's classes online. For me it has been good because I can do the coursework while I travel for work or am at home.

Couple of things. The classes I'm taking are mostly in the social sciences and humanities for human factors, performance improvement, operational efficiency stuff. No labs or clinicals are required. Another area why I believe it works is the faculty all have backgrounds in instructional methodology and distance learning. Producing online content and delivering online content is their specialty.

What I like most about it is flexibility to get stuff done on my time line but also having firm dates. I prefer teachers who start the week on Monday and end on Sunday night but not all do the same- reading the syllabus and course schedule is imperative.
For a typical Mon-Sun class flow....
Mon-Wed read required reading from text books, teacher's note on the class site, any teacher videos and other embedded videos or text.
Wed-Thurs go online and start a thread with basic metrics for length and content.
Thurs-Sun Read other students threads and reply to at least two other students' threads. Answer all replies to students who commented on your own thread.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
No kidding the weekly discussions are like doing stuff on the Boneyard.
Throughout the semester you'll usually have a handful of 3-5 page papers due or a smaller number of 7-10 page papers due.
Some classes had tests, some did not.

Teachers were always responsive to emails within 24 hours on weekdays and at some point on the weekend.

Things I didn't like is too much kids gloves in the class discussions. Maybe I get jaded from the Boneyard but when 95% of the comments to anyone's posts start with "I really like how what you wrote related to in a book or video" it gets boring. OTOH how many time do students go back in forth in a classroom? Not too much.
 
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I'll give an analogy that might make some sense. Would you rather watch the Huskies live from courtside seats or watch them on TV in your living room?

Both my kids did online learning for 2 months. They both hated it. Said it was boring without the teacher-student interaction and also no interaction with your fellow classmates. Remember, most schools were forced very quickly to adopt online learning so there are definitely things they could improve on, and probably will, for the fall but I really don't think online classes can replace being in smaller classes. If the online class is replacing a 400 person lecture hall class then maybe there's not much of a difference.
 

Chin Diesel

Power of Love
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I'll give an analogy that might make some sense. Would you rather watch the Huskies live from courtside seats or watch them on TV in your living room?

Both my kids did online learning for 2 months. They both hated it. Said it was boring without the teacher-student interaction and also no interaction with your fellow classmates. Remember, most schools were forced very quickly to adopt online learning so there are definitely things they could improve on, and probably will, for the fall but I really don't think online classes can replace being in smaller classes. If the online class is replacing a 400 person lecture hall class then maybe there's not much of a difference.

Both my HS kids liked it. Even while in their rooms with classes they were on their phones with their friends and chatting back and forth. Also, if it was a 45 minute class, they'd have about 20 minutes of zoom time with their teacher and then they would have class work assigned. During that time they'd chat with friends as well. Plus, at night and on weekends they were seeing their friends. They already had the laptops for school and while attending class in person they did their class work on their laptop and had to send it electronically to their teacher while in the building. Not much changed in that regard.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
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Forgive my ignorance on this subject. I have not been a student for years, and have no family members in school who I can ask.

I have read how college kids and pre-college kids hate online classes. But, though I am retired, I have viewed professional webinars where the presenter gave the webinar from his or her home on Zoom, and the participants could raise their hand and ask a question. The presenter was visible, but usually the attendees were not. Full viewing options certainly could be added.

If that is the format, rather than just having a written lecture format without seeing or hearing the instructor, why is that so bad?

I understand nothing is as instructive and stimulating as being in a class with other classmates present.

Especially for large lecture hall classes that are by nature impersonal, why couldn't professors do it that way.
If the students want to view each other, that works for Zoom. Same thing for smaller classes.

I realize there are other issues about professors objecting about in-person classes and students not wanting to overpay for less than a full college experience. I am just trying to understand how they are defining online classes, and whether the webinar format with a live instructor and seeing other students on Zoom, is or is not a satisfactory learning option.

I have no dog in this fight. I am just trying to learn the issue better.

Thanks for any input.

As a professional, I too have webinar based training. But think about what it is there to accomplish. You need to ingest some information. How to do X. How we are now marketing Y. What the new standard is for products like Z. It's fact based. It is there to impart a basic level of knowledge, usually on top of your current understanding.

College has some of that. Some of the freshman classes, like geography, psych 101, that probably works. Those are mostly about cramming facts into your head. But if that is all college is, nobody should go anywhere but community college. They do that just fine. The idea is to be in a shared environment where you are not just learning fact A, you are learning how to learn. How to think about things differently. How to debate. I feel like debate is a good example...do you think that could be done effectively on zoom?
 
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My son's end of school year on-line college classes were a mix of zoom and video lectures. He had a great British History class with a very vibrant professor that was his favorite class until they had to go on-line. Although the lectures were on zoom, the class just totally lost its luster. The pre and post class discussions with the professor which were the basis for great in-class discussions were lost. There was simply a lack of back-and-forth that was present in a live classroom.

The video classes were even worse. No connection with the professors and simply listening and regurgitating the information. That is not what college should be. He took an economic statistics class in the first summer session to keep himself busy during lockdown. He was honest that he did not feel the class was the same value as in-person even with the A grade.

My daughter's high school reduced the daily class periods from 8 to 4 during on-line teaching and it worked very well. The teachers had to do zoom classes and the administration and staff spent all of spring break working to make the transition to on-line work. Trying to do a full HS classload on-line would not be good for teenagers.

I conclude that the on-line learning works well in a more structured HS curriculum vs. the varied college classes. It was a social nightmare for both kids and neither one wants to start the fall on-line.
 
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I did my masters in engineering online, while working professionally. I liked the flexibility and as others have mentioned it's a lot more effective since I was motivated to take classes. Engineering is probably a subject more conducive to online learning since there's a lot of math that at that point you either get it or you don't. It's tough if there's lab based learning, but again that was mostly done for me in undergrad so most of my grad classes revolved around higher level math and theory.

It took a while for me to learn how to learn while in undergrad and I think that's what makes the online learning more difficult at that stage in life. I cruised through high school near top of my class and really struggled first year of undergrad until I figured out how to take advantage of the on site resources at school: study groups, office hours with TA/professor, etc. Those are not as easily accomplished via online so you can really dig yourself in a hole pretty quick (I imagine).

I'm sure the major reason kids hate it is the lack of true social interaction, which they probably make up for with more parties, which takes the focus away from the education part of college...which is already easy enough to do without the added incentive.
 
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So the student’s now don’t know what they are experiencing LOL. Respectfully, it’s time to retire.

Have no idea what you are even talking about here. My post was about email response.
 

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