Pulisic's thoughts on the US development system | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Pulisic's thoughts on the US development system

Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
27,702
Reaction Score
38,209
“As a result of my dual citizenship, I’ve been able to play in Europe, training at the Dortmund academy, since I was 16. Without it? I would have had to wait until I was 18. And for a soccer player … man, ask anyone and they’ll tell you — those age 16–18 years are everything. From a developmental perspective, it’s almost like this sweet spot: It’s the age where a player’s growth and skill sort of intersect, in just the right way — and where, with the right direction, a player can make their biggest leap in development by far.

In the U.S. system, too often the best player on an under-17 team will be treated like a “star” — not having to work for the ball, being the focus of the offense at all times, etc. — at a time when they should be having to fight tooth and nail for their spot. In Europe, on the other hand, the average level of ability around you is just so much higher. It’s a pool of players where everyone has been “the best player,” and everyone is fighting for a spot — truly week in and week out. Which makes the intensity and humility that you need to bring to the field every day — both from a mental and physical perspective — just unlike anything that you can really experience in U.S. developmental soccer.”

Simply put, unless we can raise the level of the pro game and unless we can do better at consolidating our best young players with a few Super Clubs in MLS, and actually paying them competitively we’re not going to the environment he is describing.
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,529
Reaction Score
60,968
Well, when Pulisic was 14 he was considered one of the top prospects in the world. So yeah I think we get a pretty good handle on it.

We’ve had great junior teams in the U-20s and the U-17s in the past. But after that the players lag their peers worldwide. The missing link is that pro environment from 16-18,19, 20 years old and getting meaningful minutes.
Now your are sounding like Bruce. Nobody's falling through the cracks?
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
32,974
Reaction Score
85,981
Now your are sounding like Bruce. Nobody's falling through the cracks?

I take that concept with a huge heaping helping of salt. I don't know enough about youth soccer, I'll admit that. But I know a bit about basketball and football (and even baseball). Enough to know that there are many more eyes evaluating basketball and football players at that age, and they still get it very, very wrong. I'm not saying we don't notice some of the right kids, but we miss many I'm sure.

That's why I think that whatever the solution is, it has to involve local/regional efforts to get the best kids better competition and coaching. You can't rely on a handful of kids like Pulisic, who can go to Europe, or who have the ability to send the kid far away to a camp. There have to be local options that are at least better. It seems like a sub-division of MLS would be a good place to start, and of course, we'd all like to see relegation. The draft as it is structured provides little incentive for teams to sign and develop young players. That seems to be a big part of our problem.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,531
Reaction Score
8,305
Pulisic started on a local PA team. During my time we had local 'select' teams, ODP, regional pools/camps then the national pool. More quality coaches for the younger kids (u10-12) will help funnel better kids to better teams, and ultimately to MLS academies, Europe, college, etc. My parents shelled out for trainers, travel, club fees, winter ball, camps, etc. It's a legitimate limiting factor!

There aren't enough eyes, especially in certain communities, which Herc Gomez pointed out, and too many people are getting paid too much for there to be a significant change, as Zoo mentioned.

It's up to the kid and the family to 'self select' and seek out the best opportunity. One guy I played with wasn't a top player on our team, but he switched clubs to find the right philosophy and turned it into a D1 ride. Sacrifices have to be made at that 'critical age' to maximize development, and taking a proactive posture to find those evaluating eyes for a trial. It's happening everywhere else, and for us to think we can compete without our best pushing themselves is crazy. It calls for a youngster to grow up quickly and is something we're not used to in comparison to hoops or football, but needs to be done.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
27,702
Reaction Score
38,209
Pulisic started on a local PA team. During my time we had local 'select' teams, ODP, regional pools/camps then the national pool. More quality coaches for the younger kids (u10-12) will help funnel better kids to better teams, and ultimately to MLS academies, Europe, college, etc. My parents shelled out for trainers, travel, club fees, winter ball, camps, etc. It's a legitimate limiting factor!

There aren't enough eyes, especially in certain communities, which Herc Gomez pointed out, and too many people are getting paid too much for there to be a significant change, as Zoo mentioned.

It's up to the kid and the family to 'self select' and seek out the best opportunity. One guy I played with wasn't a top player on our team, but he switched clubs to find the right philosophy and turned it into a D1 ride. Sacrifices have to be made at that 'critical age' to maximize development, and taking a proactive posture to find those evaluating eyes for a trial. It's happening everywhere else, and for us to think we can compete without our best pushing themselves is crazy. It calls for a youngster to grow up quickly and is something we're not used to in comparison to hoops or football, but needs to be done.

In Europe, once you are in the pro track families don’t have to pay a dime. Clubs invest in talent and make a profit selling them or getting solidarity payments.

MLS doesn’t want a player market or solidarity payments. Toronto recently paid a bunch of local clubs and it irked the MLS brass.

MLS wants homogeny and vertical integration. No real transfer fees, just “allocation” money and the lower divisions under their control.

What incentive is there for lower division teams to invest in development?
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
32,974
Reaction Score
85,981
In Europe, once you are in the pro track families don’t have to pay a dime. Clubs invest in talent and make a profit selling them or getting solidarity payments.

MLS doesn’t want a player market or solidarity payments. Toronto recently paid a bunch of local clubs and it irked the MLS brass.

MLS wants homogeny and vertical integration. No real transfer fees, just “allocation” money and the lower divisions under their control.

What incentive is there for lower division teams to invest in development?

Now we're talking the same language. Fully on board with that, not that I think it is likely to change.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
32,974
Reaction Score
85,981
Yup, won't change

I think the best chance for change would come from the big Euro clubs launching a pro league in the USA, focused on development. They could run it the way they do in Europe, and pluck players before the get to the MLS system or college. There's nothing MLS could do about it. They could demand transfer fees from MLS or other clubs. It would drive MLS to change and probably to merge with them and create a two tier league with relegation.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,531
Reaction Score
8,305
The transfer fee structure is the biggest limiting factor, I think. Isn't Neymar's Brazilian club still getting paid on his moves?
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,529
Reaction Score
60,968
I take that concept with a huge heaping helping of salt. I don't know enough about youth soccer, I'll admit that. But I know a bit about basketball and football (and even baseball). Enough to know that there are many more eyes evaluating basketball and football players at that age, and they still get it very, very wrong. I'm not saying we don't notice some of the right kids, but we miss many I'm sure.

That's why I think that whatever the solution is, it has to involve local/regional efforts to get the best kids better competition and coaching. You can't rely on a handful of kids like Pulisic, who can go to Europe, or who have the ability to send the kid far away to a camp. There have to be local options that are at least better. It seems like a sub-division of MLS would be a good place to start, and of course, we'd all like to see relegation. The draft as it is structured provides little incentive for teams to sign and develop young players. That seems to be a big part of our problem.
The big thing I think that has been discussed with kids/teens falling through the cracks is lot's of kids don't have the financial clout to "be seen". They are not getting to these tournaments, playing in the leagues where players get seen.
 

whaler11

Head Happy Hour Coach
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,364
Reaction Score
68,239
Word on the street is that Gulati won’t run. But Kyle Martino is the MLS’s puppet candidate.

Sort of unrelated but his wife is incredibly hot.

I sort of hate him just for that.
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,529
Reaction Score
60,968
Sort of unrelated but his wife is incredibly hot.

I sort of hate him just for that.
We might have different views on "incredibly hot". Susan Sarandon's daughter. Eva Amurri

eva-amurri-martino-susan-zoom-b7749eb9-e5bf-45b2-9ebe-0730cd338c48.jpg
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,285
Reaction Score
9,284
We might have different views on "incredibly hot". Susan Sarandon's daughter. Eva Amurri

eva-amurri-martino-susan-zoom-b7749eb9-e5bf-45b2-9ebe-0730cd338c48.jpg
there are better pictures of her... but I get your point. She is not unattractive tho, and could feed an entire villages children with milk... if you get what I'M sayin'... amiright ;)
 

whaler11

Head Happy Hour Coach
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,364
Reaction Score
68,239
9297FE09-F29C-4615-95A9-B531D3E99434.png
We might have different views on "incredibly hot". Susan Sarandon's daughter. Eva Amurri

You found the worst picture of her ever taken.

Her Californication seasons are unreal.

The movie she is in where she is a high school teacher sleeping with a student she looks ridiculous.
 

whaler11

Head Happy Hour Coach
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,364
Reaction Score
68,239
317656C6-91AE-45AE-8867-F7EDF9C158CA.png
If you need one with her mother so bad
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,529
Reaction Score
60,968
View attachment 27039 If you need one with her mother so bad
She just doesn't do much for me. Definitely not "incredibly hot", I probably wouldn't even go with "hot". But hey, whatever does it for you and Kyle.

Speaking of which, I saw Martino play last night (FS1) on "Kick In for Houston". Stuart Holden's fundraiser game for Houston (floods). Pretty fun watch. 7v7 on a small field.

Holden, Steve Nash, Martino, Dempsey, Hamm, McBride, Beasley, Ching, DeRosario, GAM, Charlie Davies, Lalas, Scott Kelly (astronaut), a way out of shape Donovan, a couple YouTube "stars" (???), Holden's brother, DeRosario's son, Wondo, and a surprisingly good Bode Miller. (probably missing a couple)
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,744
Reaction Score
48,449
I take that concept with a huge heaping helping of salt. I don't know enough about youth soccer, I'll admit that. But I know a bit about basketball and football (and even baseball). Enough to know that there are many more eyes evaluating basketball and football players at that age, and they still get it very, very wrong. I'm not saying we don't notice some of the right kids, but we miss many I'm sure.

That's why I think that whatever the solution is, it has to involve local/regional efforts to get the best kids better competition and coaching. You can't rely on a handful of kids like Pulisic, who can go to Europe, or who have the ability to send the kid far away to a camp. There have to be local options that are at least better. It seems like a sub-division of MLS would be a good place to start, and of course, we'd all like to see relegation. The draft as it is structured provides little incentive for teams to sign and develop young players. That seems to be a big part of our problem.

Europe is not that different in terms of the process (I'm not referring to level of competition). Lots of kids travel to join academies. Some at a very young age. Remember, Messi was a pre-teen when he left Argentina for Spain.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
32,974
Reaction Score
85,981
Europe is not that different in terms of the process (I'm not referring to level of competition). Lots of kids travel to join academies. Some at a very young age. Remember, Messi was a pre-teen when he left Argentina for Spain.

The difference is who does that. Poor kid from Argentina or the Paris slums or child of wealthy parents in the DC suburbs or Virginia. It’s easy to abandon a life path with crappy prospects. It’s less easy if your options outside soccer are good.
 

Online statistics

Members online
75
Guests online
1,883
Total visitors
1,958

Forum statistics

Threads
160,120
Messages
4,219,172
Members
10,083
Latest member
unlikejo


.
Top Bottom