ProspectNation Top 100 for 2017

[UConnCat]

I have said in many of my post on other threads that Boothe is number 1 so @Hoopdreams is not the only one who says this. She is the Joyner Holmes of this class and it shouldn't be up for discussion.

Westbrook is a great talent but not a number 3 talent...again it helps to be near the scouting services home. I got a chance to watch her all summer and never thought she was a top 5 talent.

Boykin was ranked in the top 10 and played on the nike circuit for the last two years but they dropped her down to near 20. Miller never played on the nike circuit but was raised in to the top 10....while both didn't play in July.

Richards was second on her team in scoring behind Holmes and second and rebounding to Holmes. This was on a team that made it to the final four at nike nationals. When i watched her at usa it looked to me like she was worried about messing up.....now i could be wrong.

Jade Williams, Miller, and Andy were all helped out by making the USA team. Now i Will say this.if they are this good why would are they the first team to lose a game at U16? That alone should disqualify them from making the top 10 unless the world has caught up this much.

This leads me to my next argument.....jade Williams(#7 2017) and Collier (#4 2018) were on a team that had the #24 and #22 kids on it, but they didnt qualify for nike nationals. I have watched these girls play all over the country and do not be fooled by the politics of these services.

Joyner by far is the number 1 kid in the 2016 class and all we ask from these services is to be consistent with your reasoning.

Here is someone with bluestar agreeing with my thoughts with joyner.also notice he has Boothe on his first team and walker on his second team.

Well, as for automatically disqualifying players on USA youth teams that failed to win gold, there was a U19 team that failed to win gold in 2001 and was coached by a guy who is now in the Naismith HOF and has won several collegiate championships. Some of the players were pretty good too: Taurasi, Beard, Powell, Pondexter to name a few. So, USA does lose on occasion.

Seems like you get around to see a lot of players. Do you publish your own recruiting rankings?

 

[triaddukefan]

Excuse my errors on above post. Responded from my phone

So have you ever seen Mikayla Boykin in action? If so... thoughts ?

 

[Alydar]

If what has been posted here is accurate then I look forward to 2 years from now when UConn will play Texas since it's widely assumed Holmes is signing with the Longhorns. Same with Maryland if they sign Boothe.

I've read a lot of comments here about the various biases of some of the ranking services and of the USA basketball selection committee. While I have no doubt that those who earn a living coaching and running camps promote players for personal reasons, I also have to wonder about the biases of anyone who spends their summer at these AAU events. From what I have seen, the only people at these events are recruiters, ranking services and family. I doubt there is anyone at these events without a bias.

 

[TerpWomenFan]

If what has been posted here is accurate then I look forward to 2 years from now when UConn will play Texas since it's widely assumed Holmes is signing with the Longhorns. Same with Maryland if they sign Boothe.

I've read a lot of comments here about the various biases of some of the ranking services and of the USA basketball selection committee. While I have no doubt that those who earn a living coaching and running camps promote players for personal reasons, I also have to wonder about the biases of anyone who spends their summer at these AAU events. From what I have seen, the only people at these events are recruiters, ranking services and family. I doubt there is anyone at these events without a bias.

Fortunately for UConn the Maryland game will be in Connecticut so they will still be favored. Texas will be an interesting team the next few years. can they get to that 2nd tier level after UConn with Notre Dame, South Carolina, Tennessee, Baylor, etc.

 

[UcMiami]

snsservices - curious what your connections to the AAU are as you seem to be at most of the events.

And I'll take issue with your comment about the U16 losing and that pointing to them being less talented than _____ players. I assume you would not make the same determination about the USA National team that won Bronze in 2006 Worlds. Stuff happens, and the U16 team played one bad half of basketball in the medal rounds - and I am not sure the coaching on that team was completely up to standard USA excellence.

 

[UConnCat]

If what has been posted here is accurate then I look forward to 2 years from now when UConn will play Texas since it's widely assumed Holmes is signing with the Longhorns. Same with Maryland if they sign Boothe.

I've read a lot of comments here about the various biases of some of the ranking services and of the USA basketball selection committee. While I have no doubt that those who earn a living coaching and running camps promote players for personal reasons, I also have to wonder about the biases of anyone who spends their summer at these AAU events. From what I have seen, the only people at these events are recruiters, ranking services and family. I doubt there is anyone at these events without a bias.

Exactly, but at least the people who publish recruit rankings identify themselves. Their biases are out there for all to see and judge. The same can't be said for those who challenge those rankings anonymously on message boards.

 

[snsservices]

So have you ever seen Mikayla Boykin in action? If so... thoughts ?

Yes i have seen her play.....i was actually at the game in Tennessee when she got hurt.

I really feel she's a top 10 kid when she's healthy. I think she tried to come back to fast but when healthy she's a problem. A healthy Boykin is the number one pg in the class. Great size, can shoot, and get to the basket whenever she wants.

I've been told that i do need to start a scouting service.....but the problem is there are to many right now and no one knows who's to trust when reading them.

I will say this, the two guys i respect the most when it comes to scouting these girls is Dan Olsen and Mark Williams. Both of these guys are sitting at the game with there clip board out taking notes and off by themselves. Others are socializing with other club coaches and college coaches, some are even taking selfiies with other kids on the sideline.

 

[snsservices]

Exactly, but at least the people who publish recruit rankings identify themselves. Their biases are out there for all to see and judge. The same can't be said for those who challenge those rankings anonymously on message boards.

Not challenging at all. This is my opinion and I'm able to give my opinion without it being based on someone else's rankings.

Thought it may come in handy knowing or hearing it from someone who actually watches the games. If you go back and read my other post you will see that i am pretty consistent.

 

[triaddukefan]

Yes i have seen her play.....i was actually at the game in Tennessee when she got hurt.

I really feel she's a top 10 kid when she's healthy. I think she tried to come back to fast but when healthy she's a problem. A healthy Boykin is the number one pg in the class. Great size, can shoot, and get to the basket whenever she wants.

.

Thats the kind of stuff I like to hear/read

 

[DobbsRover2]

Fortunately for UConn the Maryland game will be in Connecticut so they will still be favored. Texas will be an interesting team the next few years. can they get to that 2nd tier level after UConn with Notre Dame, South Carolina, Tennessee, Baylor, etc.

Um yeah, UConn will "fortunately" be favored by 35+, and if the game was in MD they'd be favored by 33+. Whether MD can get back up to the 2nd tier this year will be interesting to see, since it's been a while since they've kind of bounced around over the last ten years. Maybe the Terps can finally put two straight good years together.

 

[UcMiami]

Um yeah, UConn will "fortunately" be favored by 35+, and if the game was in MD they'd be favored by 33+. Whether MD can get back up to the 2nd tier this year will be interesting to see, since it's been a while since they've kind of bounced around over the last ten years. Maybe the Terps can finally put two straight good years together.

They had two good years already - aiming for three but with Lexi gone?!

 

[DaddyChoc]

If what has been posted here is accurate then I look forward to 2 years from now when UConn will play Texas since it's widely assumed Holmes is signing with the Longhorns. Same with Maryland if they sign Boothe.

half right with the assumptions so far...

 

[DobbsRover2]

They had two good years already - aiming for three but with Lexi gone?!

Yeah, true dat. Two in a row even if one of them was with 7 losses. If they can do a Final Four three-peat, they will definitely establish some bragging rights over some of the Top 5 teams who haven't been as productive in late March.

 

[CocoHusky]

I have said in many of my post on other threads that Boothe is number 1 so @Hoopdreams is not the only one who says this. She is the Joyner Holmes of this class and it shouldn't be up for discussion.

Boykin was ranked in the top 10 and played on the nike circuit for the last two years but they dropped her down to near 20. Miller never played on the nike circuit but was raised in to the top 10....while both didn't play in July.

Jade Williams, Miller, and Andy were all helped out by making the USA team. Now i Will say this.if they are this good why would are they the first team to lose a game at U16? That alone should disqualify them from making the top 10 unless the world has caught up this much.

This leads me to my next argument.....jade Williams(#7 2017) and Collier (#4 2018) were on a team that had the #24 and #22 kids on it, but they didnt qualify for nike nationals. I have watched these girls play all over the country and do not be fooled by the politics of these services.

Joyner by far is the number 1 kid in the 2016 class and all we ask from these services is to be consistent with your reasoning.

It (#1 in'17) will always be up for discussion because you are essentially displacing Walker who has been number 1 for two solid years now.

Andy is spelled Andi in her own writings?
http://www.wiseeyesports.com/2017s-andra-espinoza-hunter-get-to-know-me-monthly-diary/

Consistency from the recruiting services will never be achieved IMO. The best you can hope for is written rationale- and speaking of which I Have the same questions as UC and UCONCat. Additionally, what is it that Holmes does better than Cox and Boothe does better than Walker to make this such a "non-discussion" in your opinion?

 

[CocoHusky]

Not challenging at all. This is my opinion and I'm able to give my opinion without it being based on someone else's rankings.

Thought it may come in handy knowing or hearing it from someone who actually watches the games. If you go back and read my other post you will see that i am pretty consistent.

Your opinions are welcome and appreciated, your critique of the other recruiting services is not justified. I'm Positive the other recruiting services watch the games and tryouts also,I have seen it with my own two eyes.

 

[UConnCat]

Not challenging at all. This is my opinion and I'm able to give my opinion without it being based on someone else's rankings.

Thought it may come in handy knowing or hearing it from someone who actually watches the games. If you go back and read my other post you will see that i am pretty consistent.

Of course you can give your opinion but you are presenting yourself on this board as someone who has some level of expertise on high school players. You've stated your disagreement with how certain players are ranked and you've also questioned the biases and work ethic of those who work for ranking services. Why not tell us who you are, how it is you know so much about high school players, how often you see players, etc., so we can decide how much weight to give to your opinions.

 

[easttexastrash]

You'd be the only one so far.

Well, sometimes only one person is right.

 

[easttexastrash]

It (#1 in'17) will always be up for discussion because you are essentially displacing Walker who has been number 1 for two solid years now.

Andy is spelled Andi in her own writings?
http://www.wiseeyesports.com/2017s-andra-espinoza-hunter-get-to-know-me-monthly-diary/

Consistency from the recruiting services will never be achieved IMO. The best you can hope for is written rationale- and speaking of which I Have the same questions as UC and UCONCat. Additionally, what is it that Holmes does better than Cox and Boothe does better than Walker to make this such a "non-discussion" in your opinion?

Who cares how Andi is spelled? Does that really make a difference in this conversation?

What does Holmes do better than Cox? She is a far superior athlete. She will step into college ready to complete physically, which I cannot say about Cox. I think Cox will find the speed of the college game difficult to deal with.

JMO!

 

[easttexastrash]

Keep the feedback coming, snsservices. Whenever people point to the recruiting services I like to remember that Nina Davis was ranked #52 in her class.

 

[CocoHusky]

Who cares how Andi is spelled? Does that really make a difference in this conversation?

What does Holmes do better than Cox? She is a far superior athlete. She will step into college ready to complete physically, which I cannot say about Cox. I think Cox will find the speed of the college game difficult to deal with.

JMO!

Who cares how Andi is spelled?
Apparently just me and Andi.
I disagree that Joyner is "a far Superior athlete" and is more college ready. IMO they are both great athletes with only a slight not to Joyner only if you are talking about running and jumping.
For Cox's USA Basketball Bio: Plays volleyball, was a district and all-area newcomer of the year in 2012-13 and the defensive player of the year in 2013-14; also competed in track and field as a freshman and claimed district and area titles in shot put and discus.
If we are talking basketball skills I would give a slight edge to Cox because she appears to be a better defensive player, more polished offensively in the post and appears to be a better passer-Again JMOs!

 

[snsservices]

Who cares how Andi is spelled?
Apparently just me and Andi.
I disagree that Joyner is "a far Superior athlete" and is more college ready. IMO they are both great athletes with only a slight not to Joyner only if you are talking about running and jumping.
For Cox's USA Basketball Bio: Plays volleyball, was a district and all-area newcomer of the year in 2012-13 and the defensive player of the year in 2013-14; also competed in track and field as a freshman and claimed district and area titles in shot put and discus.
If we are talking basketball skills I would give a slight edge to Cox because she appears to be a better defensive player, more polished offensively in the post and appears to be a better passer-Again JMOs!

Everything you named for Cox does not take much athleticism so you are not making a good case as far as Cox being a better athlete than Holmes.

Holmes is a better athlete and it's not really close.....but the reason Holmes wasn't the number 1 on all boards is because some scouts felt she takes plays off. That's the only reason I've heard from 2 different services but all the services I've talked to have said that Holmes is the better talent and has more upside.

Holmes can actually play the 1 through 5 and you can't say that about Cox. Every scouting service in the state of Texas ( where they are both from) has Holmes the number 1 kid. They see both of those kids a whole lot more than anyone on this board.

 

[snsservices]

Here you go.....and trust me when i say this. Cox can't handle the ball and split double teams like this.

 

[Alydar]

Here you go.....and trust me when i say this. Cox can't handle the ball and split double teams like this.

Doing it against high school level players,(most of whom never get one college scholarship offer), and doing it against elite level college players (which is what we are concerned with on this board) are two very different things. I've read too many times about players being able to play the 1-5 and have yet to see even one that can do it in college. There is a lot more to being a pg than bringing the ball over the half court line. Candice Parker was always credited with that 1-5 skill set and yet I saw Moore strip her last night on the perimeter like she was taking candy from a baby.

I have no opinion as to the relative abilities of any of the 2016 class but one thing I have noticed in the AAU games I have seen streamed is that there is little in the way of defense and even less in the way of teamwork skills such as passing & setting screens. I have yet to see anyone take a charge in an AAU game. They appear to me to be little more than a showcase for individuals to display their individual offensive skills to recruiters in an endless string of games where it's rare to see 2 passes in a possession. And I've seen enough of these "mixtapes" to know that it's silly to form an opinion of a player based on one of them. I'll wait to see how Holmes does against Morgan Tuck next year before I anoint her as "ridiculous and unstoppable".

What I find ironic is that the company producing this particular highlight video uses the expression "pass the ball" in their name and yet arely do I ever see one of the players in their mixes do that.

 

[willtalk]

snsservices - curious what your connections to the AAU are as you seem to be at most of the events.

And I'll take issue with your comment about the U16 losing and that pointing to them being less talented than _____ players. I assume you would not make the same determination about the USA National team that won Bronze in 2006 Worlds. Stuff happens, and the U16 team played one bad half of basketball in the medal rounds - and I am not sure the coaching on that team was completely up to standard USA excellence.

I would agree with you on your perspective. Interestingly enough the selection committee picked players who would operate as a team, yet picked a coach who still thought she was coaching her high school team with individual Stars that have to carry a team. Most coaches do not know how to handle a roster filled with talented individual. This coach especially. I suppose she was picked due to her three good seasons based entirely on the talent she had on her team at the time. The rest of her record is mediocre at best.

When you get a team and have one week to pick your starters this should not result in that line up being set in stone. That is high school methodology. She had a rotation that never changed irregardless of the production of the line up. Players have good day/weeks and bad one's. When you are dealing with players you have only had a week to evaluate that makes it essential that you don't lock yourself into a line up mindset. In the game they lost they were facing a very athletic team that the post starters she locked herself into were not able to adapt too. They were too slow defensively and ineffective offensively. Yet she went back to that same lineup after the team has cut the lead down towards the end of the game. A fast athletic team will always beat a post up team when a shot clock is involved. Interestingly enough the two post players she started and continued to play despite poor production through out the tournament didn't play at all the last game. This is one coach that needs to go. She is way over her head. Why are there so few states that use a shot clock in high school. The game in California is on a much different level than they play in other states. That is one reason that the Cal Stars dominated AAU this season. The New Jersey Team played the same type of up tempo style. The USA u16 coach could not handle that type of up tempo game they faced in the game they lost. And for a team that was supposed to be team oriented there was very little passing with players mostly taking it one on one or jacking ups shots when they got their hands on it.

The days when the USA can just field a group of all stars and expect to win entirely on talent is gone.

 

[CocoHusky]

Everything you named for Cox does not take much athleticism so you are not making a good case as far as Cox being a better athlete than Holmes.

Exactly my point! Joyner is better athlete, Cox better basketball player because Cox doesn't "take plays off" like Joyner does by your own admission.