Power 5 leaders exploring holding their own fall sports championships

[oldanintheway]

FYI for any interested parties.... Down here watching the UVA team(UCONN scheduled visit Sept.18th gone of course) running b*ll buster sprints in the 95 degree heat with masks on. Their schedule as of today-first 5 games away, last 5 games home.

 

[noeynox]

I think many of the power 5 athletes get scholarships worth 60 to 70 thousand per year plus tutoring etc. Many of these athletes would be very lucky to get a job cooking burgers at McDonalds . If they kill the golden goose thousands of minority men and women will trade in Michigan and Duke Diplomas for jobs in Dunkin’ Donuts if they are lucky.

Dear Lord, i hope this is sarcasm.

 

[billybud]

Maybe not that sarcastic...

Duke:

This year's overall acceptance rate is 8.3 percent. Last year, the University's regular decision acceptance rate was 7.3 percent and the overall acceptance rate was 9.2 percent.

I am sure that some of the athletes playing at Duke would not be at Duke if not for athletic ability.

UNC:

-- There were 341 student athletes playing football or basketball between 2004 and 2012 under the “special-talent policies,” meaning they otherwise would not have been admitted on academics alone.

 

[noeynox]

Maybe not that sarcastic...

Duke:

This year's overall acceptance rate is 8.3 percent. Last year, the University's regular decision acceptance rate was 7.3 percent and the overall acceptance rate was 9.2 percent.

I am sure that some of the athletes playing at Duke would not be at Duke if not for athletic ability.

UNC:

-- There were 341 student athletes playing football or basketball between 2004 and 2012 under the “special-talent policies,” meaning they otherwise would not have been admitted on academics alone.

Big gap from getting into Duke to flipping burgers. Most here couldn't get into Duke either. Im guessing most have done better than Dunkin.

 

[Watchdog]

Some schools (65 of them) generate fabulous revenues in football but there are several sides to this and too many players seem to believe their options in life are hitting the lottery of a pro career or poverty.

One of the things I find most heartening about RE, and especially Dan Hurley, is their attempts to better prepare their players for life after UConn through speakers they bring in or programs they offer. No one can guarantee equality of outcome for anyone, but all the schools should be able to prepare kids for equality of opportunity and provide some extra support for kids that may need direction.

This quote from one of the PAC-12 players exhibits a mindset no college kid should have:
“Guys who come from low-income backgrounds, when they leave to go school (sic) they can go back to having nothing. One small group of people are pulling in all the money when it could go to so many communities.”

So, by inference, this athlete is saying we go to school and play for four or five years but the education we receive has no value. That could well be the case if their coursework is simply designed to keep them eligible (UNC) but offers no pathway to meaningful employment.

When I think of what college sports should do for kids I think of one of my all-time favorite Huskies. Lyman DePriest reportedly came from a background where few kids made good lives for themselves after their playing careers ended, but Lyman did.

 

[Excalibur]

These schools do NOT want to give up tens of millions of dollars because the NCAA says so.

How much money do the fall championships other than football generate?

 

[Slick]

Dear Lord, i hope this is sarcasm.

No Sarcasm here. Just the cold facts that are going to become very apparent when these kids lose their golden ticket.

 

[billybud]

The very real problem in America is that we have developed a generally bifurcated labor market.

No longer do we assemble TV's, refrigerators, electronics, make steel, etc...we have offshored many jobs where one coud make a decent living working with his hands. The trades have lost money to the cost of living and non union hiring since 1985.

In the American section of the global economy, we have many higher skilled, better pay jobs that require education and training....and at the other end, we have a plethora of low skill, low pay service jobs in retail, hotels and restaurants, fast food service, etc.

Those without the education/training for the higher skill jobs will be at a disadvantage. And Black's are disproportianately affected because of educational preparation...

The National Assessment of Educational Process found:

ONLY ABOUT A THIRD OF U.S. high school seniors are prepared for college-level coursework in math and reading. And while the performance of the country’s highest achievers is increasing in reading, the lowest-achieving students are performing worse than ever.

“The decline is real,” said Peggy Carr, acting commissioner of the National Center for Education Statistics – a research arm of the Department of Education – who also spoke on the press call. “There is a widening of the gap between the highest- and lowest-performing students. The students at the lower end are getting worse.”

Broken down by race, the scores also leave much to be desired.

While 32 percent of white students and 47 percent of Asian students scored at proficient or above in math, only 7 percent of black students and 12 percent of Hispanic students did.

Similar gaps were present in reading: 46 percent of white students and 49 percent of Asian students scored at or above proficient, while only 17 percent of black students and 25 percent of Hispanic students did so.


Earning a living is a paramount need for anyone to fully partake in our way of life....the thought of being permanently relegated to mimimum wage jobs may be a root of current social unrest.

If you graduate from high school and read on the 6th grade level...the odds get stacked against you. Schooling is as important as it ever was. But more so,

 

[uconndogs]

Totally agree. Good education and access to it is critically important to addressing so much of what ails our society. It's a critically important topic to address that requires thoughtful and challenging dialogue. Unfortunately, I don't think this country can have that type of discussion right now. But, if we want to really get to solutions, education is one of the key areas to address.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I think many of the power 5 athletes get scholarships worth 60 to 70 thousand per year plus tutoring etc. Many of these athletes would be very lucky to get a job cooking burgers at McDonalds . If they kill the golden goose thousands of minority men and women will trade in Michigan and Duke Diplomas for jobs in Dunkin’ Donuts if they are lucky.

Please. These kids are not getting anywhere near Fair Market Value for their labor.

Yes, SOME go to Duke. Most go to Alabama, Auburn, Missouri, Texas, etc. Sometimes great schools. Often not. Certainly their athletic endeavors make them very unlikely to achieve a degree in anything particularly worthwhile or employable like STEM. Your Communications Degree from LSU and $1.75 will get you a buss pass.

But they generate MILLIONS. And they get free scholarships for... what, a $40,000/year school? Their return on the billion dollar college football industry is basically an entry-level accounting job and a lifetime of CTE which luckliy is not that long. You can make that at a warehouse if you hurl boxes fast enough. Probably safer for your health, too.

College football programs (and all NCAA sports really) have exploited young labor -- mostly non-white -- for decades. And as they ask their athletes to, once again, put their own lives at risk so University Presidents can put a donor's name on a gleaming new training facility, while these kids just hope to stay healthy enough to ACTUALLY get paid their Fair Market Value (minus Owner's Stake).

If I was an athlete, I'd realize that I AM the product, and college football can't do anything without me, so why should I sacrifice everything, once again, for the entertainment of the masses?

 

[Slick]

Please. These kids are not getting anywhere near Fair Market Value for their labor.

Yes, SOME go to Duke. Most go to Alabama, Auburn, Missouri, Texas, etc. Sometimes great schools. Often not. Certainly their athletic endeavors make them very unlikely to achieve a degree in anything particularly worthwhile or employable like STEM. Your Communications Degree from LSU and $1.75 will get you a buss pass.

But they generate MILLIONS. And they get free scholarships for... what, a $40,000/year school? Their return on the billion dollar college football industry is basically an entry-level accounting job and a lifetime of CTE which luckliy is not that long. You can make that at a warehouse if you hurl boxes fast enough. Probably safer for your health, too.

College football programs (and all NCAA sports really) have exploited young labor -- mostly non-white -- for decades. And as they ask their athletes to, once again, put their own lives at risk so University Presidents can put a donor's name on a gleaming new training facility, while these kids just hope to stay healthy enough to ACTUALLY get paid their Fair Market Value (minus Owner's Stake).

If I was an athlete, I'd realize that I AM the product, and college football can't do anything without me, so why should I sacrifice everything, once again, for the entertainment of the masses?

These kids have a choice. they can turn down the Scholarships to UNC, UCLA, USC etc. Then they can pump some gas or get a minimum wage job and maybe find happiness?

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

These kids have a choice. they can turn down the Scholarships to UNC, UCLA, USC etc. Then they can pump some gas or get a minimum wage job and maybe find happiness?

It's cool how you make it very obvious you think so little of them that they are either athletes or basically worthless members of society. "Either do this or pump gas."

Did it over occur to you that someone who could be an elite athlete could also be elite in other ways?

 

[Slick]

It's cool how you make it very obvious you think so little of them that they are either athletes or basically worthless members of society. "Either do this or pump gas."

Did it over occur to you that someone who could be an elite athlete could also be elite in other ways?

Irish I absolutely feel that some of these athletes could be elite in other ways. However if they are elite students and minorities that would have an excellent chance of getting Grant money along with student loans that they can pay back with the good jobs that they would command when they graduate.

 

[Exit 4]

If I was an athlete, I'd realize that I AM the product, and college football can't do anything without me, so why should I sacrifice everything, once again, for the entertainment of the masses?

There are perhaps 100k kids in any given year that would happy to take a free education in exchange for playing a sport they love. If it was such a bad deal we wouldnt see nearly the interest we do in what is a very valuable carrot (ie compensation). So yeah, kids can sit out, but its probably 10 deep per slot for eager kids to fill the void. And, even if a whole team opts out for a game or a season, who is really losing here, the kids who are only 18-22 for a short window or the school? Yeah the school will lose $ and that hurts, the kids will lose an opportunity of a lifetime. In the case of college athletics, it really is the opportunity of a life time, there is no way to go back to his window. If you don't feel that yearn, you probably shouldn't be playing your respective sport and thats okay, the world will be fine.

It seems we are poised to see some strong attempts to organize student athletes in the years ahead. It will be interesting to see how those play out. If the sit outs become too frequent amateur athletics will suffer as people will lose interest. Without fan interest none of this big time stuff happens. And maybe that is all okay because maybe at that point we'll have better minor league systems so we can all just walk away from the evil college athletics machine (sarcasm). Maybe it will kill the golden goose - it could. It certainly will be another force pushing to make FBS football in particular smaller.

FWIW - I fully support unlimited cash compensation to NCAA athletes. I would only have a few requirements;
i) the athletes can't use university trademarks,
ii) the athletes will have to register all their compensation deals with an NCAA clearing house using a form contract,
iii) the schools are prohibited from providing direct comp - but any booster club or any other entity not controlled by the schools can provide comp including individuals.
iv) I would have no $ limit and no service requirement.
v) athletes would need to be educated about taxes since this comp would be all self employment income (welcome to the real world).

Let it rip. There is no ethical reason to prohibit unlimited comp to the kids. They should be free to earn whatever they can.

 

[Huskygrad88]

These kids have a choice. they can turn down the Scholarships to UNC, UCLA, USC etc. Then they can pump some gas or get a minimum wage job and maybe find happiness?

It’s not a binary decision. They can also, as they are doing, try to get a better deal. We’ll ultimately see how much power they have. The best I can equate to your argument is that as an employee at a company you can either get paid whatever the employer picks and work as many hours as they want, or you can quit. No, there are other options including asking for a raise, improving benefits, etc. That’s all they are doing. Happens all the time.

 

[Exit 4]

It’s not a binary decision. They can also, as they are doing, try to get a better deal. We’ll ultimately see how much power they have. The best I can equate to your argument is that as an employee at a company you can either get paid whatever the employer picks and work as many hours as they want, or you can quit. No, there are other options including asking for a raise, improving benefits, etc. That’s all they are doing. Happens all the time.

Sure, athletes might decide they no longer like "the deal" mid season and sit in mass, but so be it if it happens. If there are forfeits, there are forfeits. Student athletes striking over "conditions" has never been issue before, but probably best to accept it will be a thing ahead.

 

[billybud]

If a state employee in Florida strikes, they get fired....it is not legal for them to strike. Teacher's in Florifa may not strike...they did once 50 years ago and laws were passed.

And now if they do, there are others to take their places.

If a college athlete wants to sit out, that is his right...just remove his stipend and tuition and move on to the next one.

 

[phillionaire]

If a college athlete wants to sit out, that is his right...just remove his stipend and tuition and move on to the next one.

NFL players that are paid millions of dollars are deciding that their teams and league aren’t doing enough for their protection, why would you punish unpaid amateurs that feel like they aren’t being protected either? That would be terrible optics for any university and a really terrible thing to do to a STUDENT-athlete.

 

[Exit 4]

NFL players that are paid millions of dollars are deciding that their teams and league aren’t doing enough for their protection, why would you punish unpaid amateurs that feel like they aren’t being protected either? That would be terrible optics for any university and a really terrible thing to do to a STUDENT-athlete.

Not that I disagree with your general sentiments, but I think it is notable when looking at the pro sports that it seems more of the “have already made it” guys are the ones opting out rather than those climbing to a big contract. It’s far easier for Solder or Beckham to sit given the coin already made rather than guys 20 through 52 on the NFL roster.

 

[BlueDogs]

Please. These kids are not getting anywhere near Fair Market Value for their labor.

Yes, SOME go to Duke. Most go to Alabama, Auburn, Missouri, Texas, etc. Sometimes great schools. Often not. Certainly their athletic endeavors make them very unlikely to achieve a degree in anything particularly worthwhile or employable like STEM. Your Communications Degree from LSU and $1.75 will get you a buss pass.

But they generate MILLIONS. And they get free scholarships for... what, a $40,000/year school? Their return on the billion dollar college football industry is basically an entry-level accounting job and a lifetime of CTE which luckliy is not that long. You can make that at a warehouse if you hurl boxes fast enough. Probably safer for your health, too.

College football programs (and all NCAA sports really) have exploited young labor -- mostly non-white -- for decades. And as they ask their athletes to, once again, put their own lives at risk so University Presidents can put a donor's name on a gleaming new training facility, while these kids just hope to stay healthy enough to ACTUALLY get paid their Fair Market Value (minus Owner's Stake).

If I was an athlete, I'd realize that I AM the product, and college football can't do anything without me, so why should I sacrifice everything, once again, for the entertainment of the masses?

The difference for most is that it is an honor put on the helmet and pads to play a game you love for a school. There is no product without the brand that brings the fans. Fair market is go show up with no college ball experience and try and make an NFL practice squad. Clueless.

 

[billybud]

We have corrupted college ball...

When I graduated from high school in the way-way back (56 summers back), you could play all year at a school like FSU, Auburn or Miami and not once be on TV in regular season.

The NCAA allowed the broadcasting of eight national games (half of which were Big Ten and Notre Dame was on Saturday night) .....and allowed regional broadcasts in five weeks of the year. Until 1984 that was college ball.

Now we have 111 games in regular season that have had at least 2 million watching per game...it is big entertainment, big money. Billions in media dollars flowing to conferences.

Bobby Bowden was paid $35,000 a year when he came to FSU....now, 100 times that amount for a coach does not make anyone blink.

The kids have long ceased to be scholar athletes at the higher levels of football....the NCAA has allowed sliding scales and other subterfuges to allow college players on the field who, otherwise, would never attend that college.

We have made up fields of study designed to keep up a facade of these players actually being bonafide students...all the while they are spending many hours in football preparation.

If, as the Department of Education has published, that only 17% of Black 12th graders can read at a proficient level and 6% are proficient at math, and a preponderance of the better players are Black, do we really believe that they all come out of that 17% that may be college material?

We have conveniently bought into that fiction so that we can enjoy an entertainment that we imagine to be an amateur product compared to the NFL.

And is it any wonder that it is the kids themselves who understand that and are now pulling back the curtain so that we all can not ignore the NCAA wizard pulling the levers?

 

[Skiblets]

We have corrupted college ball...

When I graduated from high school in the way-way back (56 summers back), you could play all year at a school like FSU, Auburn or Miami and not once be on TV in regular season.

The NCAA allowed the broadcasting of eight national games (half of which were Big Ten and Notre Dame was on Saturday night) .....and allowed regional broadcasts in five weeks of the year. Until 1984 that was college ball.

Now we have 111 games in regular season that have had at least 2 million watching per game...it is big entertainment, big money. Billions in media dollars flowing to conferences.

Bobby Bowden was paid $35,000 a year when he came to FSU....now, 100 times that amount for a coach does not make anyone blink.

The kids have long ceased to be scholar athletes at the higher levels of football....the NCAA has allowed sliding scales and other subterfuges to allow college players on the field who, otherwise, would never attend that college.

We have made up fields of study designed to keep up a facade of these players actually being bonafide students...all the while they are spending many hours in football preparation.

If, as the Department of Education has published, that only 17% of Black 12th graders can read at a proficient level and 6% are proficient at math, and a preponderance of the better players are Black, do we really believe that they all come out of that 17% that may be college material?

We have conveniently bought into that fiction so that we can enjoy an entertainment that we imagine to be an amateur product compared to the NFL.

And is it any wonder that it is the kids themselves who understand that and are now pulling back the curtain so that we all can not ignore the NCAA wizard pulling the levers?

There is literally nothing to argue with from this long missive. The question is - can the genie be put back in the bottle or does it all have to burn down and rise again like the Phoenix?

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

The difference for most is that it is an honor put on the helmet and pads to play a game you love for a school. There is no product without the brand that brings the fans. Fair market is go show up with no college ball experience and try and make an NFL practice squad. Clueless.

The is the same line of BS managers try to use all the time. "You should take pride in your work and this company, and that's why I can't give you a raise this quarter."

Pride is always what they try to sell you when they're exploiting you. The difference is these elite athletes cannot be easily replaced and they are starting to realize it.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Exit 4]

The is the same line of BS managers try to use all the time. "You should take pride in your work and this company, and that's why I can't give you a raise this quarter."

Pride is always what they try to sell you when they're exploiting you. The difference is these elite athletes cannot be easily replaced and they are starting to realize it.

So much to chew on here, but gonna side step the life discussions and focus on "cannot be easily replaced." I couldn't disagree more. No one is watching college athletics in any sport thinking these are the best athletes in the world (gymnastics perhaps an exception). They are too young in almost every sport to meet the criteria. What we are watching is just pure competition. Remove some athletes? No problem, you won't notice. When one exits, another will step in to make the play and become the hero. Pro sports is totally different, you expect the best, you expect pros. These are kids, we are watching just for pure competition - my school vs your school.

The world needs a G league for football and maybe that could be the XFL (albeit the effort has failed over and over). A G league would allow those that feel exploited by college athletics another path. Of course, if kids are truly exploited I remain totally baffled as to why so many want a scholarship and so few walk away from scholarships, especially so few that actually make the grade and contribute once on a team.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The P5 are screwed from a legal liability standpoint if they go through with a season and DII and DIII don't.

 

[billybud]

I assume then, that all Dvision II and III schools are cancelling in person classes?

 

[huskymedic]

Can kicked up to the next block....

 

[huskymedic]