OT: - Poverty and Recruiting | The Boneyard

OT: Poverty and Recruiting

storrsroars

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Stamford now has more population than Syracuse.

Time to position the Stamford Branch for D1!
 
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I spent some time in Syracuse many years ago, and I could never figure out why anybody in their right, non-nose-picking-mind would want to live or go there. Here's more about syracuse today.


Syracuse makes list no one wants to be on: Top 10 U.S. cities with highest poverty

Syracuse makes list no one wants to be on: Top 10 U.S. cities with highest poverty
My son goes to college in upstate NY near Utica, about 45 minutes from Syracuse. All the cities in upstate NY outside of Albany are pretty depressed. He does some community service work in Utica and I asked him why anyone would want to live in these areas. He said a lot of immigrants go there because it's a cheap place to live. Cheap for a reason.
 

cohenzone

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My son is a prof at a Syracuse college (not SU). His wife is a speech therapist with the Syracuse public school system. The schools are in tough shape. They live just outside the city. Public schools in suburban Syracuse are ok. His last position was in a fairly isolated southern university. He says that town was generally more sophisticated than Syracuse.

The area around Syracuse has a lot to do. The restaurants in and around Syracuse are pretty good and almost always busy. Like a lot of cities in the northeast that were manufacturing centers, the center city is hurting. Without SU, it would be much worse. Whether any of these places can recover is open to question. Maybe they should go into coal mining.

The weather is not as bad as all that. A few winters in the last ten years have been worse in CT than in Syracuse. They are great at snow removal. My son’s place is just south of Syracuse. The lake effect snow bands are often more just to the north. Syracuse isn’t high on my list of places to live, but those lists of bad places to live are obviously not a comprehensive picture.
 

whaler11

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My son is a prof at a Syracuse college (not SU). His wife is a speech therapist with the Syracuse public school system. The schools are in tough shape. They live just outside the city. Public schools in suburban Syracuse are ok. His last position was in a fairly isolated southern university. He says that town was generally more sophisticated than Syracuse.

The area around Syracuse has a lot to do. The restaurants in and around Syracuse are pretty good and almost always busy. Like a lot of cities in the northeast that were manufacturing centers, the center city is hurting. Without SU, it would be much worse. Whether any of these places can recover is open to question. Maybe they should go into coal mining.

The weather is not as bad as all that. A few winters in the last ten years have been worse in CT than in Syracuse. They are great at snow removal. My son’s place is just south of Syracuse. The lake effect snow bands are often more just to the north. Syracuse isn’t high on my list of places to live, but those lists of bad places to live are obviously not a comprehensive picture.

We lived in a small town between Syracuse and Utica (50 miles east of Syracuse) 40 years ago. First job out of grad school and, being young and enjoying skiing and cheap home prices, it was fine for three to four years. The lake effect snow, and lack of sunlight from November to April was pretty depressing, as there was less sunlight than Buffalo. Lake effect every morning from November until the lakes froze in December, followed by wind-driven major storms all winter gave us 120 to 150 inches of snow annually. There was a small ski area about 50 miles north that got over 400 inches of snow annually.

Went through our old town, and Utica, and near Syracuse this past June and not much has changed. Very nice small communities along the Finger Lakes (your typical summer home environments that have outside money keeping them up), but our old town and the larger towns and center cities are just old. Old factories that would be converted to nice lofts in DC, or other areas with growth, sit empty or house "incubators". Old housing, old public buildings, old arenas, lots of tenement houses. Probably the same in Syracuse but we bypassed it. By the late-70's Syracuse had already lost a huge number of manufacturing jobs. There were a number of large factories (GE and others as I recall) that shrank over the decades (massive parking lots less than a quarter filled). Carrier still has a presence I guess, but not sure what else.

The contrast is especially stark when you compare Syracuse/Utica/Rochester with Charleston, SC, San Antonio, TX, Charlotte, NC, Nashville, TN, Raleigh/Durham, etc. Basically anywhere outside the Northeast is growing. Recruits probably don't care much because they're in their own cocoon and looking ahead to some NBA city, you know, like the Syracuse Nationals.
 

cohenzone

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We lived in a small town between Syracuse and Utica (50 miles east of Syracuse) 40 years ago. First job out of grad school and, being young and enjoying skiing and cheap home prices, it was fine for three to four years. The lake effect snow, and lack of sunlight from November to April was pretty depressing, as there was less sunlight than Buffalo. Lake effect every morning from November until the lakes froze in December, followed by wind-driven major storms all winter gave us 120 to 150 inches of snow annually. There was a small ski area about 50 miles north that got over 400 inches of snow annually.

Went through our old town, and Utica, and near Syracuse this past June and not much has changed. Very nice small communities along the Finger Lakes (your typical summer home environments that have outside money keeping them up), but our old town and the larger towns and center cities are just old. Old factories that would be converted to nice lofts in DC, or other areas with growth, sit empty or house "incubators". Old housing, old public buildings, old arenas, lots of tenement houses. Probably the same in Syracuse but we bypassed it. By the late-70's Syracuse had already lost a huge number of manufacturing jobs. There were a number of large factories (GE and others as I recall) that shrank over the decades (massive parking lots less than a quarter filled). Carrier still has a presence I guess, but not sure what else.

The contrast is especially stark when you compare Syracuse/Utica/Rochester with Charleston, SC, San Antonio, TX, Charlotte, NC, Nashville, TN, Raleigh/Durham, etc. Basically anywhere outside the Northeast is growing. Recruits probably don't care much because they're in their own cocoon and looking ahead to some NBA city, you know, like the Syracuse Nationals.
Don’t knock Dolph Shayes I went to Cuse Law summer session for a few weeks when Archbold Stadium was still there. When you’re in school it really doesn’t matter how crappy the town is assuming the school has enough going on. Places like Colgate are totally isolated and William and Mary is next to a fake town.
 
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My son goes to college in upstate NY near Utica, about 45 minutes from Syracuse. All the cities in upstate NY outside of Albany are pretty depressed. He does some community service work in Utica and I asked him why anyone would want to live in these areas. He said a lot of immigrants go there because it's a cheap place to live. Cheap for a reason.

There are pockets of depression in the big cities, but Buffalo has had $4 billion in investments the last few years. There are cranes all over the place, new high rises, new developments, like a night and day difference between now and when I moved here 15 years ago. Rochester is nice too. These 2 cities are underrated. Architecture, food, sports, etc. I don't disagree with your assessment of Utica (though I have to say Utica is the only place to get good pizza upstate) or Syracuse, but the same does not apply for all of the cities upstate. Of course, there is huge poverty in sections of Buffalo as well even if it didn't make that list. Put it this way, your average family home in the gentrified parts of Buffalo runs you $450-850k. Compare that to Syracuse--night and day. Homes in those areas are 3x more expensive in Buffalo. And a $50k home bought in a high crime area of Buffalo in 2007 is now worth $250k.
 
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There are pockets of depression in the big cities, but Buffalo has had $4 billion in investments the last few years. There are cranes all over the place, new high rises, new developments, like a night and day difference between now and when I moved here 15 years ago. Rochester is nice too. These 2 cities are underrated. Architecture, food, sports, etc. I don't disagree with your assessment of Utica (though I have to say Utica is the only place to get good pizza upstate) or Syracuse, but the same does not apply for all of the cities upstate. Of course, there is huge poverty in sections of Buffalo as well even if it didn't make that list. Put it this way, your average family home in the gentrified parts of Buffalo runs you $450-850k. Compare that to Syracuse--night and day. Homes in those areas are 3x more expensive in Buffalo. And a $50k home bought in a high crime area of Buffalo in 2007 is now worth $250k.

Glad to hear it. Friends who lived in Buffalo always spoke passionately about how much they liked living there and how bad a rap people gave Buffalo.
 
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I am old enough to remember when Syracuse had an NBA team. The Nationals. For some unknown reason they were my favorite team when I was a little kid.
 
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Everyone I’ve met from Buffalo loves it. Granted, these people are all what I guess you’d call, upper middle class. A couple of educators, an engineer etc. They say Buffalo is wildly underrated and a great place to live for a multitude of reasons.
 
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There are pockets of depression in the big cities, but Buffalo has had $4 billion in investments the last few years. There are cranes all over the place, new high rises, new developments, like a night and day difference between now and when I moved here 15 years ago. Rochester is nice too. These 2 cities are underrated. Architecture, food, sports, etc. I don't disagree with your assessment of Utica (though I have to say Utica is the only place to get good pizza upstate) or Syracuse, but the same does not apply for all of the cities upstate. Of course, there is huge poverty in sections of Buffalo as well even if it didn't make that list. Put it this way, your average family home in the gentrified parts of Buffalo runs you $450-850k. Compare that to Syracuse--night and day. Homes in those areas are 3x more expensive in Buffalo. And a $50k home bought in a high crime area of Buffalo in 2007 is now worth $250k.
Interesting about the home values. I was very pleasantly surprised by Buffalo when I last visited my sister. I like that much of the state's investment has gone in to UB and arts, not just trying to force businesses to move there. It makes for a more vibrant community. My wife ran the Buffalo Marathon, and I the half. We ran by some unbelievable houses by a big park. I asked my sister and she explained that those house cost a lot (upwards of $1mm+?). But she doesn't think she would get much more for her house than she paid about 7 years ago in Kenmore. It's a working class neighborhood, but definitely safe. Separately, I'm not a wing guy, but the wings are much better up there.

I've only met a few people that were from the Rochesters or Syracuses of the world. They seemed happy to be out of there and in the case of both Syracuse people didn't even admit that they were from Syracuse for a while. They literally told everyone they were from "New York." They knew that implied NYC. My sister went to school in Rochester before Boston and Buffalo. She had no desire to go back to Rochester and didn't think there was a chance she'd stay in Buffalo. That was almost 15 years ago. I've met a number of people from Buffalo and have some clients there. Much like Hoophound mentioned, I've never met a person from Buffalo that talks badly about it. Many seem to move because of better opportunities... and weather, but all say it's a great place. I know some that moved back when having a family.

That all said, I don't think a recruit or his family cares at all about a school being in an impoverished city as long as the campus area is nice. I had a perfectly good time hanging out at Syracuse years ago and I'm sure it's still a perfectly fine campus.
 

uconnphil2016

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Hartford just missed this list. I think we’re 31.2 or 31.4 percent below the poverty line. The numbers for the poverty line are a joke, anyhow. It’s like 18k of income for a family of four or something. May even be lower than that
 
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Interesting about the home values. I was very pleasantly surprised by Buffalo when I last visited my sister. I like that much of the state's investment has gone in to UB and arts, not just trying to force businesses to move there. It makes for a more vibrant community. My wife ran the Buffalo Marathon, and I the half. We ran by some unbelievable houses by a big park. I asked my sister and she explained that those house cost a lot (upwards of $1mm+?). But she doesn't think she would get much more for her house than she paid about 7 years ago in Kenmore. It's a working class neighborhood, but definitely safe. Separately, I'm not a wing guy, but the wings are much better up there.

I've only met a few people that were from the Rochesters or Syracuses of the world. They seemed happy to be out of there and in the case of both Syracuse people didn't even admit that they were from Syracuse for a while. They literally told everyone they were from "New York." They knew that implied NYC. My sister went to school in Rochester before Boston and Buffalo. She had no desire to go back to Rochester and didn't think there was a chance she'd stay in Buffalo. That was almost 15 years ago. I've met a number of people from Buffalo and have some clients there. Much like Hoophound mentioned, I've never met a person from Buffalo that talks badly about it. Many seem to move because of better opportunities... and weather, but all say it's a great place. I know some that moved back when having a family.

That all said, I don't think a recruit or his family cares at all about a school being in an impoverished city as long as the campus area is nice. I had a perfectly good time hanging out at Syracuse years ago and I'm sure it's still a perfectly fine campus.

When friends leave Buffalo for California or Chicago, I tell them, "Go!!!" But--everything you said.
 
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Fwiw I doubt recruits care what the surrounding community is like, but I like the strategy.
 

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