Poll Which Three Players Should UConn Nominate for WBCA AA

[Los24]

Again I completely disagree, all the players switch on defense at Uconn, who guards who is not an issue unless Geno decides that there is a player on the other team that needs special attention when he goes to Williams or Nurse. Yes Williams and Collier usually play closer to the basket as both Nurse and KLS are playing guards spots because of their skills. KLS has shown she can easily post but she has skills that the other players don't on the perimeter that opens the floor for them. When KLS posts the question is who passes the ball, the only other good post passer is Williams, so you see Collier benefits from the skills of both Williams and KLS along with Nurse on the perimeter and Chong, not the other way around. Collier is open as she is the third or fourth option of the defense or you are saying every coach that Uconn has played against is an idiot

I think both JudgeSCR and hugefan have great points are mostly agreeing but with different perspectives. Judge is right regarding a big part of her being open is everything she does before getting the ball. Hugefan is right that a big portion is the offense, quick ball movement and KLS (and Kia) on the perimeter that does not allow double teaming or even enough time for a help defender. Also, since Gabby is not a traditional big hanging down low but usually spends the majority of her time in the high post Gabby does help open up spacing. As both her shot becomes more consistent and she takes it more often then it will just open things up more. However, if you look at the Maryland game, many teams are willing to give her an open look as they do not think she will hit it consistently. SMU game she did not take many nor made any outside shots (if she hit one I apologize to those that like to harp on an exact specific and miss the greater point.)

However, there is no denying Pheese is a better offensive player. Just list the amount of ways that Pheese can score (effectively) vs the amount of ways Gabby can score. Rebounding is a wash. Give Gabby credit for assists as it contributes to the offense. Add the other variables to evaluate that Judge highlights and they all favor Pheese. I think its safe to say that Pheese is a better offensive player both with the stats and the eye test. Plus if you want to give Gabby credit for assist then you need to add in that she has twice as many turnovers than Pheese, and in fact leads the team which hurts the offense.

## Player GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 Collier, Napheesa.. 16-16 491 30.7 127-195 .651 7-17 .412 47-59 .797 40 88 128 8.0 34 2 32 21 28 33 308 19.3
15 Williams, Gabby.... 16-16 449 28.1 81-151 .536 1-4 .250 28-40 .700 42 92 134 8.4 31 0 78 43 20 46 191 11.9

Since Geno is the best coach he builds balanced teams with players that compliment each other but do most things well. So yes Lou can shoot lights out but Kia and Soniya can shoot really well. Yes Gabby can score on bigs, but so can Pheese and Lou is not asked to because it would clog things up. Gabby can pass better and Pheese can shoot better. Kia is good on defense and KLS beats her in steals. Gabby is the best disruptor but Pheese is not far off (if you look at steals/blocks.) Nurse helps lead to keep things settled, but Gabby has stepped up as a leader too. Its trivial because the number one stat is 16 -0 this season and 91 -0 is nice too....LOL

What I take from it all is we are spoiled with talented and highly skilled players that we have nothing better to do than compare who is better on our own team since the rest of the teams do not offer enough concern to discuss them.

 

[jonson]

Again I completely disagree, all the players switch on defense at Uconn, who guards who is not an issue unless Geno decides that there is a player on the other team that needs special attention when he goes to Williams or Nurse. Yes Williams and Collier usually play closer to the basket as both Nurse and KLS are playing guards spots because of their skills. KLS has shown she can easily post but she has skills that the other players don't on the perimeter that opens the floor for them. When KLS posts the question is who passes the ball, the only other good post passer is Williams, so you see Collier benefits from the skills of both Williams and KLS along with Nurse on the perimeter and Chong, not the other way around. Collier is open as she is the third or fourth option of the defense or you are saying every coach that Uconn has played against is an idiot

So, you are saying that every opposing coach treats the team's second leading scorer (by only a point or so) as the team's "third or fourth" offensive option behind KLS and? I personally find this difficult to believe. I also don't think that this team's offense can be broken down so easily into those who open things up for other players and those who don't. Indeed, if I recall correctly, UConn was -7 against Notre Dame with Collier on the bench and +21 with her on the court, something Geno pointed out in postgame interviews.

But, if you are right about the thinking of the coaches whose teams we have played this year, then, yes, it does seem as if they are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

 

[JudgeSCR]

Again I completely disagree, all the players switch on defense at Uconn, who guards who is not an issue unless Geno decides that there is a player on the other team that needs special attention when he goes to Williams or Nurse. Yes Williams and Collier usually play closer to the basket as both Nurse and KLS are playing guards spots because of their skills. KLS has shown she can easily post but she has skills that the other players don't on the perimeter that opens the floor for them. When KLS posts the question is who passes the ball, the only other good post passer is Williams, so you see Collier benefits from the skills of both Williams and KLS along with Nurse on the perimeter and Chong, not the other way around. Collier is open as she is the third or fourth option of the defense or you are saying every coach that Uconn has played against is an idiot

You are talking theoretically about what you think might happen. I am talking about what actually happens in the game.

1) The reality is that KLS rarely posts up. In fact, in the last three games she only scored 4 baskets when she posted up -- that is she went to the blocks and received a pass (not counting fast breaks or drives) -- yes I chart some of the games. As much as you want to posit that KLS posting up is a significant part of the offense it just isn't yet.

2) Yes, they switch on defense. But their basic defense keeps KLS, Chong and Nurse out of the paint guarding the other teams bigs, except when they go zone, then KLS can be anywhere (as can Gabby and Napheesa). Next game count how many times you see KLS on the other team's center in the blocks (as opposed to at the foul line after a pick). Not much if at all.

3) How in the world is Napheesa the third or fourth option on offense? Your fourth option is your second leading scorer (one point off the leader)? Your third or fourth option has taken the second most shots (by more than 40 over the next player)? Your third or fourth option leads the team in field goal percentage? So if all that is your fourth option you better get options two and three moving. Second, UConn runs, for the most part, a type of read and react offense. Without spending the next three paragraphs breaking it down, it does not have a first option, second option, third option, fourth option, fifth option. They have a bunch of options they look for: a back door, defenders going under the screen, players establishing position under the basket, a curl around a screen, etc. It really depends on the defense, how the offense reads it, who is hot or has a mismatch, etc. After looking for the first option the rest is reading the game and the defense. That is why it is (with movement and good spacing) so hard to defend. The defense doesn't know which "option" the team will follow and neither does the team until the play unfurls. That is why Geno's constant refrain is "figure it out". Because that is what this offense requires.

4) They all make each other better. That is why they are winning. So what is your point? That Napheesa benefits from the play of Williams, KLS, Nurse and Chong? Okay, I agree. Just as they benefit from her.

There is a reason the Kara Lawson keeps bringing up Napheesa as a potential POY candidate and it is certainly not that she is the fourth option. Or if she is the fourth option, she is the best fourth option women's college basketball has ever seen -- a fourth option that, as a sophomore, scores 19 points a game on 65% shooting. In that case, give me a team of fourth options.

 

[SciHiGuy]

This is thought provoking.
How about, naphesia, gabby and Kia for AA.
Let KLS win NPOY, etc....
Then let history sort it out. LOL we'll hear about it till the cows come home.

I get it...sorta like one wins the popular vote and the other wins the electoral vote... so that everybody is happy...right?

 

[diggerfoot]

I can understand everyone's point of view on this, considering that all four contribute so much. As far as proving one's point, a rationale has to be both reliable and valid. Reliability is the easy part, provide the statistics that support your criteria. But which criteria is more valid? What makes validity even more difficult to pin down are "intangibles" that seemingly are elusive of reliable measures.

I offer no resolution to this for which three are the best AA candidates or even the best players for the team. However, there is one reliable statistic that incorporates both tangibles and intangibles, minutes played. While not an indicator of "best," it is at least a reliable and valid indicator of "most valuable" to what the team needs to accomplish in the eyes of the coaching staff. I say this without knowing what that statistic is for each player, nor am I too concerned about the result. I'll cop out and say all four are somewhat equally deserving as AA candidates. However, I do think that statistic will refute at least a few of the more dogmatic arguments I've seen in this thread ... not that it will change any minds.

 

[j66kicker]

I get it...sorta like one wins the popular vote and the other wins the electoral vote... so that everybody is happy...right?

Hmmmm. At least the one who wins the electoral vote is happy.

 

[CocoHusky]

I can understand everyone's point of view on this, considering that all four contribute so much. As far as proving one's point, a rationale has to be both reliable and valid. Reliability is the easy part, provide the statistics that support your criteria. But which criteria is more valid? What makes validity even more difficult to pin down are "intangibles" that seemingly are elusive of reliable measures.

I offer no resolution to this for which three are the best AA candidates or even the best players for the team. However, there is one reliable statistic that incorporates both tangibles and intangibles, minutes played. While not an indicator of "best," it is at least a reliable and valid indicator of "most valuable" to what the team needs to accomplish in the eyes of the coaching staff. I say this without knowing what that statistic is for each player, nor am I too concerned about the result. I'll cop out and say all four are somewhat equally deserving as AA candidates. However, I do think that statistic will refute at least a few of the more dogmatic arguments I've seen in this thread ... not that it will change any minds.

@diggerfoot thanks for checking in. Interesting though using minutes play as a tangible discriminator among the UCONN's 4 AA candidates
The numbers look like this:
Samuelson, 603 Mins
Collier 560 Mins
Nurse 623 Mins
Williams 538 Mins
I have two contradictory, perhaps conflicting thoughts. The first thought is that Gabby and Napheesa have fewer minutes because of foul trouble battling in the post. The conflict is, do I reward Gabby & Napheesa for battling in post or do I punish them for not doing a better job of avoiding fouls which would have resulted in more minutes on the floor? The ND game is the best freshest example ND did not get a pulse until Napheesa had to sit.