Poll: How long should a new coach have before being judged?

[EdgewoodNHV]

Yesterday during the ESPN Big East chat, I asked Andrea Adelson how many years she thought a coach should get before being judged for his influence on a program. She felt that people are overly reactionary and between implementing a new system, recruiting new players, and getting a fit for the program, a new coach should have at least 3 years, even if people are disgruntled with the performance.

So what do you think? How long should a coach have before he can be properly judged on his performance?

 

[mets1090]

The college game is different because they have to recruit their own players. I don't think we can judge PP based on his performance with guys recruited by a different coach for a different scheme, especially when he just doesn't have an experienced QB. I give him 2 years in terms of implementing his system and 3 years in terms of seeing his guys get on the field and perform as sophomores and freshmen. I think the 4th year is the first full year where you can say it's pretty much all him.

Edit: Voted for after 3 years though because you can basically see if he deserves to get the boot or stick around by then. If he is good enough to stick around I would expect good things in year 4.

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

even the worst weve seen lately (kragthorpe, g rob, etc....) were given a good amount of time.

i think at least 2 years need to be given. however, you can sometimes see the wheels falling off well before then....but i dont think thats the case here. we need a QB, and we need to learn the new scheme.

 

[BlueMAB]

I vote 3 years, but one could argue earlier. If the prior coach won without a QB, and many people feel/argue the current coach is an upgrade, then why shouldn't he be held to the same standards? He coached in the NFL, he should be able to adjust his scheme and what he wants to do to the roster he took over. If he can't, three years is enough time to have gotten some guys in that can do what you need them to.

Coach should get at least 2-3 full years barring a complete disaster (which I define as 4 wins or fewer) before we even think about making a change.

 

[mattp]

i vote 3. i was originally thinking 2, but then i remembered Weis' first two years at ND. quite a bit became evident after the third. personally i don't think a coach should be fired before 4 unless they do something egregious.

 

[businesslawyer]

twenty minutes.

Frankly, I'm of the belief that, in many instances, it will really take 4 or 5 years to know. I'm not saying coaches will or should get that long, but that if you're being fair that is probably how long it takes. Which was part of my concern for hiring someone of P's age. If he needs the five years to get it going, and then starts performing, how many years do you have left before another coach needs that long to be judged.

 

[gibhunter]

4-5 years could bring a program to its knees. Just look at Cuse, from BE contender to a buttom feeder in that time span. 2 years max. I'll give a coach 1st year to recruit some players for skill positions he needs, but the rest are all athletes that he can teach. No improvement in second year and you're out.

 

[UCHuskies08]

4-5 years could bring a program to its knees. Just look at Cuse, from BE contender to a buttom feeder in that time span. 2 years max. I'll give a coach 1st year to recruit some players for skill positions he needs, but the rest are all athletes that he can teach. No improvement in second year and you're out.

Uh oh, our armchair athletic director has a quick hook. Someone warn P.

 

[Husky68]

twenty minutes.

Frankly, I'm of the belief that, in many instances, it will really take 4 or 5 years to know. I'm not saying coaches will or should get that long, but that if you're being fair that is probably how long it takes. Which was part of my concern for hiring someone of P's age. If he needs the five years to get it going, and then starts performing, how many years do you have left before another coach needs that long to be judged.

Sounds a lot like age discrimination. So you have different concerns re hiring someone of P's age vs. some younger age, just based on age only? I'm sure that thinking doesn't carry over into your hiring decisions at BL Inc. So how much better would P have to be to get you to hire him over some guy 45 years old? At what age would it not be a concern? Do you ask both "how long do you plan on coaching"? Would you have hired Paterno at 61; think he might have lasted longer than Weiss or Kragthorpe or Locklsey or Haywood? Is there a 66 age limit on Uconn head coaching? What is the average time in grade for BCS coaches or better the median, would bet not much over 5 years. Even if you don't take a snapshot and just go by how long a coach lasts at a school don't think it would be 7 or 8 years (let's see ND has Willingham 3 years, guy before him 4 years, Weiss 4 years; BCU has ...) . How many head coaches have been in BE for same team for 5 years. Probably can count on one finger. Lets see - under 5 years; BE a lot; ACC - BCU, Terps, NC, FSU, NCS, Miami, Virginia (lost interest in listing). For every Beamer there are quite a few Kellys and Dickrods so why not hire a coach to his "dream job", he might stay longer and do more good than the "appropriately aged candidate". The Terps are lucky, they hired a guy to his dream job and he was well under 61 years of age, I'm sure this new Terps coach will be coaching Terps well into the next decade.

And since the time it takes to learn if P was a good hire is "part of your concern for hiring someone of P's age" what are the other parts related to age? As you explain each concern, let me know at what age this concern would begin to reduce and at what age it would no longer be a concern.

 

[BlueMAB]

Rules to live by: never hire anyone over 68

 

[businesslawyer]

Sounds a lot like age discrimination. So you have different concerns re hiring someone of P's age vs. some younger age, just based on age only? I'm sure that thinking doesn't carry over into your hiring decisions at BL Inc. So how much better would P have to be to get you to hire him over some guy 45 years old? At what age would it not be a concern? Do you ask both "how long do you plan on coaching"? Would you have hired Paterno at 61; think he might have lasted longer than Weiss or Kragthorpe or Locklsey or Haywood? Is there a 66 age limit on Uconn head coaching? What is the average time in grade for BCS coaches or better the median, would bet not much over 5 years. Even if you don't take a snapshot and just go by how long a coach lasts at a school don't think it would be 7 or 8 years (let's see ND has Willingham 3 years, guy before him 4 years, Weiss 4 years; BCU has ...) . How many head coaches have been in BE for same team for 5 years. Probably can count on one finger. Lets see - under 5 years; BE a lot; ACC - BCU, Terps, NC, FSU, NCS, Miami, Virginia (lost interest in listing). For every Beamer there are quite a few Kellys and Dickrods so why not hire a coach to his "dream job", he might stay longer and do more good than the "appropriately aged candidate". The Terps are lucky, they hired a guy to his dream job and he was well under 61 years of age, I'm sure this new Terps coach will be coaching Terps well into the next decade.

And since the time it takes to learn if P was a good hire is "part of your concern for hiring someone of P's age" what are the other parts related to age? As you explain each concern, let me know at what age this concern would begin to reduce and at what age it would no longer be a concern.

boy, that's a long post to make the point that you want bright line tests in areas of gray. P is our coach and I want him to succeed. Very badly. Would I look to hire someone that age to coach a college football team -- no, normally not because of the time I think it takes to really be doing it your way. Would I care as much in the NFL? No because it shouldn't take as long. Would I care as much if the guys track record was not good for a while and then fired, like P's, but an Urban Meyer-like star coming back from a leave? No, of course not.

But it is a factor that worried me about the decision. And I'm not urging Hathaway to have discriminated, and if I was in his shoes I wouldn't either. What does that have to do with me being concerned from the outside?

 

[gioff23]

We need more fans who never played or coached but watch the internet all day and are both experts and seekers of immediate pleasure. This is such an odd world we live in where everything is about immediate gratification. Is this team meeting expectations, no. I say we take a poll in the stands after every play and decide who should be the coach, the qb, the rb, etc. This post is so silly, but thankfully we have Andrea Adelson's expert insihts to tie in to to sort out this holy grail. The most frustrating thing of all is that I read it and commented back.

Please go back to playing your xbox.

 

[UConn4ever]

20 minutes.

 

[freescooter]

I'd say you need at least 3 years because it will take that long to figure out if the guy can recruit, it takes a season often for his system to take hold. I do agree though that if you wait too long, you can put yourself into such a hole i tcould take a decade to dig out.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Unless a coach totally sinks a program....you have to give them the chance to coach their first recruiting class as seniors/red shirt juniors.