Playing the ball-flagrant foul?

[superjohn]

Can someone please explain to me why all the guys in the studio were saying it was the right call the other day when the refs decided the game in the Seton Hall v. Arkansas matchup? There is almost never a play on the ball in situations at the end of games where it's known a team is going to foul. Half the time a bad free throw shooter is even held up and a foul is called before the ball is even inbounded in end of game situations. I seriously don't understand it.

 

[Hungryhusky99]

Because based on the rule book it was the right call, but obviously anyone who knows the game knows that isn't the point of the rule and a flagrant shouldnt have been called in that situation.

 

[Travelman6]

It is some rule lost somewhere in the back of the rule book but ignored for the most part, rightfully so. Let the players decide the outcome of the game. Refs have taken over a few of these close match ups, not cool.

 

[mauconnfan]

That was the right call. That was stupid by Rodriguez not to at least hack through the arms and just do the obvious 2 hand push. If they don't call that and it results in a SHU win then they have to answer to the other side. Clearly they got it right, kids need to learn to go for the ball it's really not hard.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That was the right call. That was stupid by Rodriguez not to at least hack through the arms and just do the obvious 2 hand push. If they don't call that and it results in a SHU win then they have to answer to the other side. Clearly they got it right, kids need to learn to go for the ball it's really not hard.

There were similar plays in over a dozen games over the weekend, including Northwestern. It was not the right call, especially when the Arkansas player obviously flops. A good crew would have not made that call.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The intent of the rule was to minimize the chance of reward for a team grabbing a poor FT shooter before ball is inbounded.

The theory is you at least have to give the team with the ball the opportunity to run an inbound play, give the defense a chance to make a defensive play on the eh inbound and then force the defense to foul whomever catches the ball.

Previously the defense was rewarded for grabbing the worst FT shooter before any time ran off. In my opinion that's even worse for the game.

I watched about 10 min of the tourney Saturday night while at a bar so I have zero knowledge of the specifics of any particular call.

All that being said, if a crew doesn't make the call as written during end of game situations, then it's the crew's fault.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

There were similar plays in over a dozen games over the weekend, including Northwestern. It was not the right call, especially when the Arkansas player obviously flops. A good crew would have not made that call.

Agreed. That call is never made and seeing it whistled in the last minute of an NCAA game was garbage.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

You always see guys just grab a guy around the waist with two arms in that situation. It's part of the game. One clown falls over- now you will see all clowns fall over.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You always see guys just grab a guy around the waist with two arms in that situation. It's part of the game. One clown falls over- now you will see all clowns fall over.

I saw a lot of soccer this weekend at the NCAA Tournament.

 

[mauconnfan]

There were similar plays in over a dozen games over the weekend, including Northwestern. It was not the right call, especially when the Arkansas player obviously flops. A good crew would have not made that call.

It's a 2 hand push read the rules it's the right call. Timing doesn't matter when the kid blatantly disregards what he should have done, even if he mauled him running through him to get to the ball he would have been fine. He pushed him not even considering the ball, left them no choice.

I think refereeing has been awful throughout the tourney and this year but we will agree to disagree on this one. Stupid play!

 

[mauconnfan]

I saw a lot of soccer this weekend at the NCAA Tournament.

There was I agree with this and it's ridiculous they get rewarded for it a lot of the time. Bad news for Duke is these guys last night were't the usual K kind of guys LOL

 

[superjohn]

That was the right call. That was stupid by Rodriguez not to at least hack through the arms and just do the obvious 2 hand push. If they don't call that and it results in a SHU win then they have to answer to the other side. Clearly they got it right, kids need to learn to go for the ball it's really not hard.

Amazed some think that was the right call, in more cases than not when it's known a team is going to foul in end of game situations there is no play on the ball. USC game last night the Baylor player was tackled and the refs rightly just rewarded the Baylor player two free throws with no flagrant. You should never decide a game on a bush league flagrant. It's known in those situations the player isn't going for the ball and is just trying to foul to extend the game, it isn't always pretty when you intentionally foul because time is running out and you're desperate. If the refs stand by the letter of the law there would be flagrants called in ever single close game that's ever played. Why are you allowed to just wrap up players before the ball is even inbounded? Clearly that's not a play on the ball and is intentional.

 

[superjohn]

The intent of the rule was to minimize the chance of reward for a team grabbing a poor FT shooter before ball is inbounded.

The theory is you at least have to give the team with the ball the opportunity to run an inbound play, give the defense a chance to make a defensive play on the eh inbound and then force the defense to foul whomever catches the ball.

Previously the defense was rewarded for grabbing the worst FT shooter before any time ran off. In my opinion that's even worse for the game.

I watched about 10 min of the tourney Saturday night while at a bar so I have zero knowledge of the specifics of any particular call.

All that being said, if a crew doesn't make the call as written during end of game situations, then it's the crew's fault.

That's the intent of the rule? Then why is it never called when a player is intentionally grabbed before the ball is inbounded?

 

[superjohn]

It's a 2 hand push read the rules it's the right call. Timing doesn't matter when the kid blatantly disregards what he should have done, even if he mauled him running through him to get to the ball he would have been fine. He pushed him not even considering the ball, left them no choice.

I think refereeing has been awful throughout the tourney and this year but we will agree to disagree on this one. Stupid play!

One of the worst calls I've seen to decide a game, see fouls like that in almost every end of game fouling situation and it's never called. Wasn't Seton Hall player's fault their legs got a little tied up and the Arkansas player took a dive. Never a play on the ball in those situations.

 

[mauconnfan]

One of the worst calls I've seen to decide a game, see fouls like that in almost every end of game fouling situation and it's never called. Wasn't Seton Hall player's fault their legs got a little tied up and the Arkansas player took a dive. Never a play on the ball in those situations.

You need to let me know when he went for the ball? I can't find that clip. Stupid play just go for the ball. If they don't make the call they look awful on this one if things turn.

Good call

WATCH: Desi Rodriguez's controversial flagrant foul in Seton Hall's NCAA Tournament loss

 

[superjohn]

You need to let me know when he went for the ball? I can't find that clip. Stupid play just go for the ball. If they don't make the call they look awful on this one if things turn.

Good call

WATCH: Desi Rodriguez's controversial flagrant foul in Seton Hall's NCAA Tournament loss

Have you read any of my responses? All I talk about is how in end of game situations where everyone knows a foul is coming players rarely go for the ball. You aren't watching games if you see players going for the ball in end of game situations. And there is no way you can say someone is going for the ball when a player is fouled before the ball is even inbounded, defies logic.

 

[EBonz30]

Can someone please explain to me why all the guys in the studio were saying it was the right call the other day when the refs decided the game in the Seton Hall v. Arkansas matchup? There is almost never a play on the ball in situations at the end of games where it's known a team is going to foul. Half the time a bad free throw shooter is even held up and a foul is called before the ball is even inbounded in end of game situations. I seriously don't understand it.

Because the rule is silly and the refs need to use their common sense. Some brutal calls in the Michigan and Louisville game too.

 

[mauconnfan]

Have you read any of my responses? All I talk about is how in end of game situations where everyone knows a foul is coming players rarely go for the ball. You aren't watching games if you see players going for the ball in end of game situations. And there is no way you can say someone is going for the ball when a player is fouled before the ball is even inbounded, defies logic.

I agree they need to make a rule on fouling before the ball is inbounded it's crazy. But this one is so obvious I'm not sure what people are missing. I get the "timing" but c'mon go for the damn ball don't be so lazy.

I am tough on the officials, think they're stunk it up all over the place this year and still are, but we will agree to disagree on this one.

 

[intlzncster]

Can someone please explain to me why all the guys in the studio were saying it was the right call the other day when the refs decided the game in the Seton Hall v. Arkansas matchup?

Because they are ball sniffers.

The rule is basically 'the tuck rule' of college basketball. Called it correctly, but it's dumb in and of itself, even though addresses a small issue in the game.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

@mauconnfan How many basketball games have you watched where there are obviously fouling situations at the end of regulation? I'm guessing you've seen thousands of games.

How many times have you seen an intentional foul called in those spots?

It's the end of the game, if the player makes contact with the body and there is no excessive force - even if it isn't a play on the ball - you call the foul and go to the line.

The fact there was a 5 minute delay and the three blind mice watched the same thing on loop should tell you all you need to know.

It wasn't blatant, it wasn't excessive and it's a play you have seen thousands of times.

Seton Hall did themselves no favors to close out that game, but they got shafted on that play.

 

[pj]

By the text of the rule, it was a flagrant foul. The rule states that the call "is not based on the severity of the act"; specifically cited as grounds for a flagrant foul are "contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player, specifically designed to stop ... the clock" (which it was) and/or "pushing a player from behind" (which it also was).

Rodriguez should have simply reached for the ball with one arm, it would have been a foul and no flagrant.

It's true, players have become accustomed to the refs letting them do flagrants at the end of the game, and in some circumstances letting those go adds to the safety of the game. But here the reach in would have been safer than the push.

Can't blame the refs for following the rule book, even if it decided the game.

 

[mauconnfan]

@mauconnfan How many basketball games have you watched where there are obviously fouling situations at the end of regulation? I'm guessing you've seen thousands of games.

How many times have you seen an intentional foul called in those spots?

It's the end of the game, if the player makes contact with the body and there is no excessive force - even if it isn't a play on the ball - you call the foul and go to the line.

The fact there was a 5 minute delay and the three blind mice watched the same thing on loop should tell you all you need to know.

It wasn't blatant, it wasn't excessive and it's a play you have seen thousands of times.

Seton Hall did themselves no favors to close out that game, but they got shafted on that play.

Intentional foul is what it was by the "old" rule. I've seen thousands of games and the rules have changed. I've seen guys run into people just trying to get near the ball, hack them from behind pretending to get to the ball and all kinds of other things. He was stupid and lazy, he pushed him from behind with 2 hands. Call it intentional or the new term of flagrant but it was right by me, I'm ok you disagree. Reach for the damn ball, knock him down even then you have a bit*h...Rodriguez left none.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Intentional foul is what it was by the "old" rule. I've seen thousands of games and the rules have changed. I've seen guys run into people just trying to get near the ball, hack them from behind pretending to get to the ball and all kinds of other things. He was stupid and lazy, he pushed him from behind with 2 hands. Call it intentional or the new term of flagrant but it was right by me, I'm ok you disagree. Reach for the damn ball, knock him down even then you have a bit*h...Rodriguez left none.

Here's the thing, if the Arkansas kid doesn't trip and have a dramatic fall on the ground, the call is never made.

Just think as a referee you gotta use common sense there.

 

[mauconnfan]

Here's the thing, if the Arkansas kid doesn't trip and have a dramatic fall on the ground, the call is never made.

Just think as a referee you gotta use common sense there.

He didn't just touch and take his hands off he followed through, that didn't help at all.

It is what it is, a controversial call I guess.

 

[willie99]

the call is never ever made, why they choose to call it in that spot is something only idiots can understand

the only thing officials do consistently is be inconsistent

I pray to the basketball gods that one incredibly stupid call doesn't mean they're calling to start calling that garbage more often, but nothing would surprise me nowadays