Pitino at the Half | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Pitino at the Half

He looked like a player playing his first round of college hoops this year. It’s normal.

Add on to the fact he’s an overall late bloomer and it’s not out of the ordinary that there are natural struggles for him.

Look how long it took Jeremy Lamb, someone who was a starter with all the opportunity, to finally turn it on consistently. But we expect Ross to do it with half the playing time and none of the rope to be aggressive in 1 year?
Yes, we do. Liam is doing it now, because he's talented and better than Ross (and Stewart). We need to recruit more Liams, multiple Liams, every year, and then recruit top-25 portal guys. And we can and should at this point, being back to back champs, ostensibly with adequate NIL. (Also, Jeremy Lamb averaged 11.1 ppg on 49/37/80 his freshman year, what are you talking about?)
 
My whole point has been play and develop these guys so that they are better than transfer portal players. But I guess we don’t believe the staff is good enough developers for this to be a thing.

The point of developing guys in your program used to be that you can coach up players better than another coach can. But yes, if you can’t actually do that then it’s an issue. Which is disappointing
What I believe is recruiting is really hard, especially when you're projecting out upside over multiple years at a juncture kids are still growing physically at 17-18 years old. Reduce risk, avoid the drama of playing time management, go grab yourself a kid that has filled out and shown he can play in college for 1-3 years, and contribute immediately.

This theory you are pitching out is basically saying that the staff are a trio of alchemists, and anyone they spot they can develop into a NC caliber player. That's not reality.

My view is this - unless you're a top 30-40 HS recruit (higher the better) and the staff is confident they can contribute immediately, pass and go portal. The obvious variable needing factoring is NIL.
 
Yes, we do. Liam is doing it now, because he's talented and better than Ross (and Stewart). We need to recruit more Liams, multiple Liams, every year, and then recruit top-25 portal guys. And we can and should at this point, being back to back champs, ostensibly with adequate NIL. (Also, Jeremy Lamb averaged 11.1 ppg on 49/37/80 his freshman year, what are you talking about?)
Yes, Liam the ready made lottery pick that you don’t have to develop much.

Why are yall obsessed with coaches not having to do their job of coaching and developing guys?

Lamb spent most of the year looking like Ross. It wasn’t until the end until he looked like one of the best guards in the country because he developed.

What I believe is recruiting is really hard, especially when you're projecting out upside over multiple years at a juncture kids are still growing physically at 17-18 years old. Reduce risk, avoid the drama of playing time management, go grab yourself a kid that has filled out and shown he can play in college for 1-3 years, and contribute immediately.

This theory you are pitching out is basically saying that the staff are a trio of alchemists, and anyone they spot they can develop into a NC caliber player. That's not reality.

My view is this - unless you're a top 30-40 HS recruit (higher the better) and the staff is confident they can contribute immediately, pass and go portal. The obvious variable needing factoring is NIL.
Hawkins was 55, Clingan was 73, Karaban 118, Andre 51, Sanogo 104, and Bouknight was 53.

These theories and philosophies about how these things should be approached are literally a threat to basketball. You’re telling coaches to avoid the hard work of developing and investing in the talent of young men that actually have bright futures if they do their job, to sell out for the portal to try and microwave a team together for a chance at winning.

And what do we do if another Mahaney situation happens? How about a 2022 season? Do we go reinvest in more players and turnover the roster again?
 
Yes, Liam the ready made lottery pick that you don’t have to develop much.

Why are yall obsessed with coaches not having to do their job of coaching and developing guys?

Lamb spent most of the year looking like Ross. It wasn’t until the end until he looked like one of the best guards in the country because he developed.


Hawkins was 55, Clingan was 73, Karaban 118, Andre 51, Sanogo 104, and Bouknight was 53.

These theories and philosophies about how these things should be approached are literally a threat to basketball. You’re telling coaches to avoid the hard work of developing and investing in the talent of young men that actually have bright futures if they do their job, to sell out for the portal to try and microwave a team together for a chance at winning.

And what do we do if another Mahaney situation happens? How about a 2022 season? Do we go reinvest in more players and turnover the roster again?
That's not true about Lamb, you're just wong on that...

Over 6 games from January 15th to February 2nd of Lamb's freshman season he averaged over 18 ppg against DePaul, Nova, Tennessee, Marquette, Louisville, Syracuse. He was getting good #'s in December and then turned it on in mid January.

Ross is s sophomore who really only did anything in his first game of the season against Notre Dame and then against Maryland Eastern-Shore.
 
Yes, Liam the ready made lottery pick that you don’t have to develop much.

Why are yall obsessed with coaches not having to do their job of coaching and developing guys?

Lamb spent most of the year looking like Ross. It wasn’t until the end until he looked like one of the best guards in the country because he developed.


Hawkins was 55, Clingan was 73, Karaban 118, Andre 51, Sanogo 104, and Bouknight was 53.

These theories and philosophies about how these things should be approached are literally a threat to basketball. You’re telling coaches to avoid the hard work of developing and investing in the talent of young men that actually have bright futures if they do their job, to sell out for the portal to try and microwave a team together for a chance at winning.

And what do we do if another Mahaney situation happens? How about a 2022 season? Do we go reinvest in more players and turnover the roster again?
The portal is here - kids can come and go whenever they want now. If they don't like something, they sulk or bolt. Why invest in something that isn't patient enough to develop? Why spend three years hoping someone develops, when they may not or they may leave before they do? Why subscribe to managing that drama, or wed yourself to it, it's exhausting?

Call me crazy, but I prefer reducing risk. I'm not saying to abandon it altogether, I'm saying minimize roster spots for it and be very selective about it. The class coming in is exactly how I see it working best, grab as many top 30 kids as you can and stuff in an interesting longer term guy like Furphy. Fill in with portal.

Long term development is a thing of the past. Not sure you've read about it, but it's why the old guard can't hack it anymore. Some guys are sticking to their guns about it (Shaka & Painter), but I see that strategy aging poorly in terms of being an NC contender longer term. They'll be forced to adapt at some point.

Look at Michigan - from an absolute bottom feeder to a top 12 team in one year, lead entirely by portal kids, and super fun. They'd be the team I pull for outside of BE this year.

Texas Tech - top 10 team out of no where, lead by JT Toppin (UNM transfer), with a starting lineup of nothing but transfers. I can go on and on.

Development - overrated. Get kids that have already proven they can develop elsewhere, and fine tune. It's where we are in the era of collegiate free agency. Development in 2 year chunks. GenZ doesn't have the patience to stare from the bench. What good did that do for the sophs watching 4 pros win a NC last year?
 
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Wow this thread really derailed.

We’re now comparing lottery pick Jeremy Lamb who averaged 11/4 his freshman year to Jayden Ross, who can’t even stay on the floor vs. DePaul.

In a thread discussing Pitino’s halftime comments.
 
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That's not true about Lamb, you're just wong on that...

Over 6 games from January 15th to February 2nd of Lamb's freshman season he averaged over 18 ppg against DePaul, Nova, Tennessee, Marquette, Louisville, Syracuse. He was getting good #'s in December and then turned it on in mid January.

Ross is s sophomore who really only did anything in his first game of the season against Notre Dame and then against Maryland Eastern-Shore.
Alright here’s Jeremy Lamb’s year.


In the month of November he had 1 game he scored in double digits and three games he only had 2 points. He then scored in double digits against the cupcakes in December (UMBC, FDU, Coppin St, and Harvard) before returning to his struggles during the big east season.

That portion you’re talking about was when he hit his stride after 2 months of being the second perimeter option playing starter minutes.

But this board is ready to give up on Ross when he’s coming off the bench as the 5th option when he does play taking 3 shots a game at max.
 
Alright here’s Jeremy Lamb’s year.


In the month of November he had 1 game he scored in double digits and three games he only had 2 points. He then scored in double digits against the cupcakes in December (UMBC, FDU, Coppin St, and Harvard) before returning to his struggles during the big east season.

That portion you’re talking about was when he hit his stride after 2 months of being the second perimeter option playing starter minutes.

But this board is ready to give up on Ross when he’s coming off the bench as the 5th option when he does play taking 3 shots a game at max.
Again, Ross is a sophomore with only 6 regular season games left in his sophomore season and all he's had is a good game against UNH in his first game of the season and against Maryland Eastern-Shore. He's nothing like what Lamb was as a freshman up until this point in Lamb's freshman season.
 
Again, Ross is a sophomore with only 6 regular season games left in his sophomore season and all he's had is a good game against UNH in his first game of the season and against Maryland Eastern-Shore. He's nothing like what Lamb was as a freshman up until this point in Lamb's freshman season.
You’re completely ignoring the context of their two situations and the opportunity Lamb had to figure it out and make mistakes.

Not just through playing time, but Calhoun actively telling him to be aggressive and not be passive. Something Hurley doesn’t seem to do with Ross.
 
You’re completely ignoring the context of their two situations and the opportunity Lamb had to figure it out and make mistakes.

Not just through playing time, but Calhoun actively telling him to be aggressive and not be passive. Something Hurley doesn’t seem to do with Ross.
I'm saying your example is terrible.
 
Nope. My observation was more that, as an older dude, his halftime talk was pretty transparent. Trying to push their buttons.
We were playing horribly and at halftime our coach (great person, great coach) started talking about not playing for each other, how we would remember this for a long time etc.... Nothing about being outrebounded, lazy on defense not hustling etc.

A few minutes into this someone let out a very large farts and everyone, including coach, started laughing and couldn't stop. End of speech.

Went out and smoked the other team in the second half.
 
Here’s an article where Jeremy himself talks about how his freshman year went:


It took Jeremy Lamb "a super long time" to get comfortable with his role as the Huskies' secondary scoring option last season. Kemba Walker kept urging Lamb to shoot, even through the early season misses, but Lamb succumbed to the typical freshman anxiety issues.

"Coach (Jim Calhoun) would always trust me," Lamb said during Wednesday's Big East media day, "but once I started knocking down shots, he'd leave me in there a little longer. I had a little longer leash than when I started, so I was more comfortable. I was in the gym every night. But it was after my shot started falling that I felt more comfortable."

"It was pretty crazy," Lamb said. "At the half of last season, that's when I started making shots. And then as time started going on, they were saying I was the second option. And by the end, I blew up a little more than I thought."


Confidence, trust, and opportunity from your coach goes a long way. That’s how you develop players. Ross and Lamb came in at similar places ranking wise and being late bloomers.

The comparison only looks funny because of hindsight and what one coach was able to get out of a player compared to the other who has shown over and over again he has a hard time trusting non-McD freshmen. Lamb would’ve never have became Lamb in this current setup.
 
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Here’s an article where Jeremy himself talks about how his freshman year went:


It took Jeremy Lamb "a super long time" to get comfortable with his role as the Huskies' secondary scoring option last season. Kemba Walker kept urging Lamb to shoot, even through the early season misses, but Lamb succumbed to the typical freshman anxiety issues.

"Coach (Jim Calhoun) would always trust me," Lamb said during Wednesday's Big East media day, "but once I started knocking down shots, he'd leave me in there a little longer. I had a little longer leash than when I started, so I was more comfortable. I was in the gym every night. But it was after my shot started falling that I felt more comfortable."

"It was pretty crazy," Lamb said. "At the half of last season, that's when I started making shots. And then as time started going on, they were saying I was the second option. And by the end, I blew up a little more than I thought."


Confidence, trust, and opportunity from your coach goes a long way. That’s how you develop players. Ross and Lamb came in at similar places ranking wise and being late bloomers.

The comparison only looks funny because of hindsight and what one coach was able to get out of a player compared to the other who has shown over and over again he has a hard time trusting non-McD freshmen. Lamb would’ve never have became Lamb in this current setup.
There is no example worth pondering pre-portal era. If JC was coaching today, he'd be ripping off players left and right from the portal. He's more Pitino than he is Hurley. That guy was willing to recruit from the state pen to bring in great talent.
 
I was one of them. Mad egg on the face there. Not saying that with Reibe. Just don’t think he starts as a freshman.

Idk who said anything about last year. Anybody with two eyes can see we were great last year.

If you weren’t drunk on Hurley can do anything kool-aid you can see we weren’t going to be as good this year either.
We are still drunk bruh. Turns out, Consecutive national titles is a hell of an intoxicant.
 
Here’s an article where Jeremy himself talks about how his freshman year went:


It took Jeremy Lamb "a super long time" to get comfortable with his role as the Huskies' secondary scoring option last season. Kemba Walker kept urging Lamb to shoot, even through the early season misses, but Lamb succumbed to the typical freshman anxiety issues.

"Coach (Jim Calhoun) would always trust me," Lamb said during Wednesday's Big East media day, "but once I started knocking down shots, he'd leave me in there a little longer. I had a little longer leash than when I started, so I was more comfortable. I was in the gym every night. But it was after my shot started falling that I felt more comfortable."

"It was pretty crazy," Lamb said. "At the half of last season, that's when I started making shots. And then as time started going on, they were saying I was the second option. And by the end, I blew up a little more than I thought."


Confidence, trust, and opportunity from your coach goes a long way. That’s how you develop players. Ross and Lamb came in at similar places ranking wise and being late bloomers.

The comparison only looks funny because of hindsight and what one coach was able to get out of a player compared to the other who has shown over and over again he has a hard time trusting non-McD freshmen. Lamb would’ve never have became Lamb in this current setup.
Thing is, if we had a freshman Jeremy lamb on this team surely he’d be playing. This is such a crazy arguement considering that our best player, our alpha, our go to guy is a freshman. Maybe it’s just that the other two kids aren’t ready or worse, aren’t UConn level. The staff knows far more than you.
 
There is no example worth pondering pre-portal era. If JC was coaching today, he'd be ripping off players left and right from the portal. He's more Pitino than he is Hurley. That guy was willing to recruit from the state pen to bring in great talent.
And if he wanted to compare Ross to someone on that team Jamal Coombs-McDaniel would've been a way better example even though Coombs-McDaniel produced more on the court up until this point in his two seasons than Ross has. Of course Coombs-McDaniel went on to win a championship at the end of his sophomore season.
 
And if he wanted to compare Ross to someone on that team Jamal Coombs-McDaniel would've been a way better example even though Coombs-McDaniel produced more on the court up until this point in his two seasons than Ross has. Of course Coombs-McDaniel went on to win a championship at the end of his sophomore season.
Ross is infinitely more athletic and has better skills than Coombs MacDaniel who I’m not even sure could dunk.

The only comparison is that they were sophomores.
 
There is no example worth pondering pre-portal era. If JC was coaching today, he'd be ripping off players left and right from the portal. He's more Pitino than he is Hurley. That guy was willing to recruit from the state pen to bring in great talent.
These theories are quite literally ruining basketball. Why would we not use examples and patterns of great player development that produced high level players and instead go with examples and patterns of players who are not as good as they used to be and won’t contribute much to basketball after college.

Literally ruining American basketball because coaches don’t want to do their job.
 
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These theories are quite literally ruining basketball. Why would we not use examples and patterns of great player development that produced high level players and instead go with examples and patterns of players who are not as good as they used to be and won’t contribute much to basketball after college.

Literally ruining American basketball because coaches don’t want to do their job.
What do you want to do? Jump in a Time Machine? Become a Marquette fan? I like winning.
 
Ross is infinitely more athletic and has better skills than Coombs MacDaniel who I’m not even sure could dunk.

The only comparison is that they were sophomores.
Ross is infinitely more athletic and has better skills than Coombs MacDaniel who I’m not even sure could dunk.

The only comparison is that they were sophomores.

Jumps higher than him, he hasn't shown anything that makes him a better basketball player than him. Coombs-McDaniel was New England prep player of the year and the 50th ranked recruit in the country. He scored 25 against Providence, 23 against Georgetown, and 16 against Louisville in a three game stretch in his sophomore season. Jayden's claim to fame is he scored 15 points against New Hampshire in his sophomore season.

I was just trying to give you a more realistic comparison because your Lamb comparison is so awful.
 
Ross is infinitely more athletic and has better skills than Coombs MacDaniel who I’m not even sure could dunk.

The only comparison is that they were sophomores.
Exactly what have you seen from Ross that screams more minutes? I actually want to throw the remote at the tv almost every time he is on the floor. There was one game this year that I thought he was serviceable. The rest, not so much. And yes, there was a very good reason why he saw 4 minutes vs seton hall. Stop trying to outsmart this staff. They know what they are doing and more importantly what they are looking for.
 
The portal is here - kids can come and go whenever they want now. If they don't like something, they sulk or bolt. Why invest in something that isn't patient enough to develop? Why spend three years hoping someone develops, when they may not or they may leave before they do? Why subscribe to managing that drama, or wed yourself to it, it's exhausting?

Call me crazy, but I prefer reducing risk. I'm not saying to abandon it altogether, I'm saying minimize roster spots for it and be very selective about it. The class coming in is exactly how I see it working best, grab as many top 30 kids as you can and stuff in an interesting longer term guy like Furphy. Fill in with portal.

Long term development is a thing of the past. Not sure you've read about it, but it's why the old guard can't hack it anymore. Some guys are sticking to their guns about it (Shaka & Painter), but I see that strategy aging poorly in terms of being an NC contender longer term. They'll be forced to adapt at some point.

Look at Michigan - from an absolute bottom feeder to a top 12 team in one year, lead entirely by portal kids, and super fun. They'd be the team I pull for outside of BE this year.

Texas Tech - top 10 team out of no where, lead by JT Toppin (UNM transfer), with a starting lineup of nothing but transfers. I can go on and on.

Development - overrated. Get kids that have already proven they can develop elsewhere, and fine tune. It's where we are in the era of collegiate free agency. Development in 2 year chunks. GenZ doesn't have the patience to stare from the bench. What good did that do for the sophs watching 4 pros win a NC last year?

I disagree on development of kids today vs 20 and 30 years ago. Today’s players treat it like a business, which is good in terms of focus and hard work, and I think the quality of play by upperclassmen in particular is higher than it was back in the day, when upperclassmen were often partying more than working because what was their coach going to do? Cut them as seniors?

I also think a lot of the old school coaches screamed a lot because they had to in order to motivate players. Kids are playing for a lot of cash now, they don’t need a coach to scream at them to motivate them. And when a coach does yell, the players know they better pay attention because they may not be on the roster next year and the MAAC doesn’t pay nearly as well as the Big East.
 
Jumps higher than him, he hasn't shown anything that makes him a better basketball player than him. Coombs-McDaniel was New England prep player of the year and the 50th ranked recruit in the country. He scored 25 against Providence, 23 against Georgetown, and 16 against Louisville in a three game stretch in his sophomore season. Jayden's claim to fame is he scored 15 points against New Hampshire in his sophomore season.

I was just trying to give you a more realistic comparison because your Lamb comparison is so awful.
If you want to claim the staff finds hidden gems, then the same staff would be playing this gem more than 4 minutes a game on the back end of his sophomore year in a key 3 game stretch. His minutes are shrinking on what is not a deep roster, with a BE low of 3 minutes against a bad Seton Hall team. He's scored more than 2 points 4x in BE play, averaging a whopping 1.6 pt/game, 21% from 3. I witnessed one play 3 feet from the rim where he looked like had an epilectic episode. The staff has tried here too, not like they weren't giving him minutes earlier in the year. He's form over function, and athletically awkward. He's like the kid in gym that could run fast then trip over his feet.
 
I always laugh when I hear some GenXer say some version of “kids these days”. The amount of fudging off that went on at UConn when I was there in the 90’s was off the charts. How many times did any of you show up at Ted’s on a Wednesday to find a line? Can anyone name a men’s dorm that didn’t have some kind of elaborate multi day video game tournament at least once a month, or worse, a full semester league with posted standings? What percentage of most of your classes were still showing up to every session by the third week? How many professor office hours did you show up to? I bet most of you clowns didn’t even know where your review section with the TA was for at least one class you took every semester, while you were taking the class. I bet many of you didn’t even realize that some of your classes had a section once a week run by the TA.

Edit: How many office hours you spent most of Saturday and/or Sunday playing pickup in the Field House when you had a big paper due or exam on Monday or Tuesday?

But kids these days don’t know the meaning of hard work? Right.
 
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If you want to claim the staff finds hidden gems, then the same staff would be playing this gem more than 4 minutes a game on the back end of his sophomore year in a key 3 game stretch. His minutes are shrinking on what is not a deep roster, with a BE low of 3 minutes against a bad Seton Hall team. He's scored more than 2 points 4x in BE play, averaging a whopping 1.6 pt/game, 21% from 3. I witnessed one play 3 feet from the rim where he looked like had an epilectic episode. The staff has tried here too, not like they weren't giving him minutes earlier in the year. He's form over function, and athletically awkward. He's like the kid in gym that could run fast then trip over his feet.
Hurley was pushing him like crazy early in the season, same with Mahaney. They just aren't equipped for Big East basketball. I'm hoping we'll get to see some of Nowell in these remaining games, not so much for this season but to see any signs of what we could maybe have next season with him. Abraham clearly isn't playing all season.
 
College basketball is an infinitely better product today than even 10 years ago and especially 20 or 30 years ago, and we still have people basking in the old days. You can't make it up
 
Here’s an article where Jeremy himself talks about how his freshman year went:


It took Jeremy Lamb "a super long time" to get comfortable with his role as the Huskies' secondary scoring option last season. Kemba Walker kept urging Lamb to shoot, even through the early season misses, but Lamb succumbed to the typical freshman anxiety issues.

"Coach (Jim Calhoun) would always trust me," Lamb said during Wednesday's Big East media day, "but once I started knocking down shots, he'd leave me in there a little longer. I had a little longer leash than when I started, so I was more comfortable. I was in the gym every night. But it was after my shot started falling that I felt more comfortable."

"It was pretty crazy," Lamb said. "At the half of last season, that's when I started making shots. And then as time started going on, they were saying I was the second option. And by the end, I blew up a little more than I thought."


Confidence, trust, and opportunity from your coach goes a long way. That’s how you develop players. Ross and Lamb came in at similar places ranking wise and being late bloomers.

The comparison only looks funny because of hindsight and what one coach was able to get out of a player compared to the other who has shown over and over again he has a hard time trusting non-McD freshmen. Lamb would’ve never have became Lamb in this current setup.

I agree with this. I have no idea if Ross could be as good as Lamb because he hasn't had a chance. That could be because Hurley didn't love his game as a frosh, but it does seem like non-superstar frosh aren't going to play much. I think he's even said that.
Ross is infinitely more athletic and has better skills than Coombs MacDaniel who I’m not even sure could dunk.

The only comparison is that they were sophomores.

Coombs McDaniel could do 360 windmill dunks.
 
College basketball is an infinitely better product today than even 10 years ago and especially 20 or 30 years ago, and we still have people basking in the old days. You can't make it up
The talent is better right now than it was just a few years ago because players are all of a sudden staying longer and the NBA hates traditional bigs. I'm not sure the talent is as good as it was when I was a kid and the studs were playing as upperclassmen but it's closer than it was 5 years ago.
 
I always laugh when I hear some GenXer say some version of “kids these days”. The amount of fudging off that went on at UConn when I was there in the 90’s was off the charts. How many times did any of you show up at Ted’s on a Wednesday to find a line? Can anyone name a men’s dorm that didn’t have some kind of elaborate multi day video game tournament at least once a month, or worse, a full semester league with posted standings? What percentage of most of your classes were still showing up to every session by the third week? How many professor office hours did you show up to? I bet most of you clowns didn’t even know where your review section with the TA was for at least one class you took every semester, while you were taking the class. I bet many of you didn’t even realize that some of your classes had a section once a week run by the TA.

Edit: How many office hours you spent most of Saturday and/or Sunday playing pickup in the Field House when you had a big paper due or exam on Monday or Tuesday?

But kids these days don’t know the meaning of hard work? Right.
I can’t remember that at all I was too drunk most of the time
 
Hurley was pushing him like crazy early in the season, same with Mahaney. They just aren't equipped for Big East basketball. I'm hoping we'll get to see some of Nowell in these remaining games, not so much for this season but to see any signs of what we could maybe have next season with him. Abraham clearly isn't playing all season.
Hurley was pushing because he wanted them to work out, needed productive minutes. Here we are.

The Nowell saga is truly peculiar. Like you, I really want to at least see him this year because it's easily our biggest position gap next year. We don't even know if he's an option at this rate.

Abraham has appeared to have grown gluteus roots deeply entrenched in the pine. I know that Trilly stuff is outstanding, didn't see anything more than what appeared around December. Yet another weird one, because pound for pound, looked like a better athlete and more coordinated basketball player than Ross. My biggest takeaways from the summer open practice were: 1) Mahaney is tiny and undynamic 2) Abraham is a smooth, chiseled athlete with a great compact stroke. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next couple years - would suck if IA departs and goes stud elsewhere because we decided to give those minutes to Ross.
 
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