Phoenix vs Minny

[UConn990411]

Griner will be fine in the long run - people underestimate the jump from college to the pros for post players. Fowles took a few years to completely adjust to the pro game, and now she's arguably the best center in the world (her and Tina are 1 and 1a).

I still think Griner ends up being the best player from her class. Hopefully it happens sooner rather than later, though, because Taurasi can't do it by herself game in and game out anymore.

I also think a healthy Penny Taylor will solve a number of Phoenix's problems on the offensive end. She's one of the five best players in the game at running an offense, and her presence allows DT to play off the ball more, which is where she thrives the most.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Phoenix would have been better off drafting EDD, Diggins or another guard since they had no intentions of utizing BG's offensive skills.

Completely disagree.

Corey was not the right coach for Griner, first and foremost. His system works best with Penny Taylor at the 4 and a Tangela Smith-like presence outside. He had no idea how to utilize two post players (Griner and Dupree) in the paint simultaneously. He also had no clue how to use someone as defensively gifted as Griner.

After last season, when Bonner was the first option due to injuries and absences, she has not understood how to revert back to her previous role as "super sub." She really struggled finding her place in the offense.

Without Penny as a facilitator, Griner was going to get less touches. Penny basically plays a ballhandling/playmaking power forward, even though her natural position is small forward. Griner with a healthy Taylor would have been putting up 18 ppg.

For Griner, the key to her offseason is working on her strength and holding position in the paint. Frankly, it would benefit her to stay in the States and not go overseas and work with former NBA players, like Lisa Leslie used to do (or heck, work with Leslie).

Another key...if you look at the Mercury's two titles, they both came with Taurasi playing OFF the ball. She was not the point guard. She was a faciliator when needed and would rack up assists, but Kelly Miller and Temeka Johnson were the point guards. It was not the position she preferred/prefers to play

 

[VAUConnFan]

Completely disagree.

Corey was not the right coach for Griner, first and foremost. His system works best with Penny Taylor at the 4 and a Tangela Smith-like presence outside. He had no idea how to utilize two post players (Griner and Dupree) in the paint simultaneously. He also had no clue how to use someone as defensively gifted as Griner.

After last season, when Bonner was the first option due to injuries and absences, she has not understood how to revert back to her previous role as "super sub." She really struggled finding her place in the offense.

Without Penny as a facilitator, Griner was going to get less touches. Penny basically plays a ballhandling/playmaking power forward, even though her natural position is small forward. Griner with a healthy Taylor would have been putting up 18 ppg.

For Griner, the key to her offseason is working on her strength and holding position in the paint. Frankly, it would benefit her to stay in the States and not go overseas and work with former NBA players, like Lisa Leslie used to do (or heck, work with Leslie).

Another key...if you look at the Mercury's two titles, they both came with Taurasi playing OFF the ball. She was not the point guard. She was a faciliator when needed and would rack up assists, but Kelly Miller and Temeka Johnson were the point guards. It was not the position she preferred/prefers to play

Is it also fair to add that Ms Taurasi was playing alongside another very gifted scorer who was the Finals MVP in Phoenix's first championship?

 

[katiecrum1992]

Is it also fair to add that Ms Taurasi was playing alongside another very gifted scorer who was the Finals MVP in Phoenix's first championship?

Yes. Is Cappie Pondexter a 2 or 1

 

[katiecrum1992]

Completely disagree.

Corey was not the right coach for Griner, first and foremost. His system works best with Penny Taylor at the 4 and a Tangela Smith-like presence outside. He had no idea how to utilize two post players (Griner and Dupree) in the paint simultaneously. He also had no clue how to use someone as defensively gifted as Griner.

After last season, when Bonner was the first option due to injuries and absences, she has not understood how to revert back to her previous role as "super sub." She really struggled finding her place in the offense.

Without Penny as a facilitator, Griner was going to get less touches. Penny basically plays a ballhandling/playmaking power forward, even though her natural position is small forward. Griner with a healthy Taylor would have been putting up 18 ppg.

For Griner, the key to her offseason is working on her strength and holding position in the paint. Frankly, it would benefit her to stay in the States and not go overseas and work with former NBA players, like Lisa Leslie used to do (or heck, work with Leslie).

Another key...if you look at the Mercury's two titles, they both came with Taurasi playing OFF the ball. She was not the point guard. She was a faciliator when needed and would rack up assists, but Kelly Miller and Temeka Johnson were the point guards. It was not the position she preferred/prefers to play

Dupree is a post? Thought she was a forward.

 

[katiecrum1992]

Since the draft is deeper next year maybe Phoenix will get a decent point guard.

 

[UcMiami]

I think the problem with the Merc and their guards/perimeter shooting is that was the style they played for the last three years and what they practiced for and they played at the start of this season - the old LA show-time run and gun mentality. It is pretty hard to make dramatic shifts and change old habits mid season which is what they sort of tried to do - they were able to make the playoffs and surprisingly handle LA but ...
Agree that they should probably make some serious roster changes before next season - and Bonner is a good place to start.

 

[Icebear]

Dupree is a post? Thought she was a forward.

Forwards at the 4 are posts.

 

[katiecrum1992]

Forwards at the 4 are posts.

Oh yeah. Power forwards. I learned the positions by names not numbers.

 

[UCONNfan1]

Well Sammy P was the PG last year correct? With her gone, I guess that fell back to Diana. Wasn't Prahalis the one who made the comment about changing the game? It's sort of sad that a player as seemingly gifted as her could not learn to play (and succeed) with a more toned down approach.

Whoever said Bonner needs to learn her place had it right. I don't know her %'s offhand, but when I watched games with my brother, all we could do was smack our foreheads every time she took another boneheaded shot. I also get that Dupree can apparently hit the mid range jumper, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where she actually made one. She's terrific at slipping around defenders to get great position in the post and either take a pass for an uncontested layup, or maneuver for a high % shot, but taking the amount of mid range jumpers and missing most of them seem to be momentum breakers.

I also noticed that Griner was consistently pushed out of her established position on offense, and when she'd get the ball, had trouble getting to the basket. A lot of fade aways and off balance shots. Strength and conditioning is a must for her this off season. 6'8" and mobile gives her an incredible set of gifts to work with, but the players in the WNBA and overseas (Olympics etc) will be much stronger than what she faced in college and I think it was clear she needs to get stronger.

Lastly, I've not seen enough of Penny Taylor to know how she'd fit in with Griner and the rest of the offense, but it seems a solid pure PG is the most pressing need. It would be nice to see Diana flourish with the kind of talented PG that allows her to play more off the ball.

 

[Icebear]

Oh yeah. Power forwards. I learned the positions by names not numbers.

Yes, power forwards are most often post players.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I have great hopes for the Mercury in the future, but I think it depends especially on filling a point guard need and secondly who they bring in as coach (they can keep Pennell, but I don't know that he wants the job).

Bonner can be useful, but not in the roll she seems to prefer. I would consider using her as the trade bait to get the point guard they need.

 

[katiecrum1992]

Los Angeles has 3 point guards if Toliver is a 1.
I can't imagine them taking bonner though when they have Candace Parker already.

 

[Geno-ista]

I have great hopes for the Mercury in the future, but I think it depends especially on filling a point guard need and secondly who they bring in as coach (they can keep Pennell, but I don't know that he wants the job).

Bonner can be useful, but not in the roll she seems to prefer. I would consider using her as the trade bait to get the point guard they need.

I think Odyssey Sims will make a positive immediate impact in the WNBA- not sure it will be quick enough for Phoenix. She is really something!

 

[katiecrum1992]

I think Odyssey Sims will make a positive immediate impact in the WNBA- not sure it will be quick enough for Phoenix. She is really something!

I'm sure Griner would love that, but she'll go pretty early in the draft she may get snapped up before Phoenix can work something out.

 

[easttexastrash]

One of the issues that I saw repeatedly this season was that as BG was establishing position, the Phoenix guards would reverse the ball JUST as she got herself positioned. They were so anxious to move the ball to the other side of the court and hopefully jack up a three pointer that they didn't even look to pass the ball to her. As far as her positioning, there were multiple times every game when she had position and the guards didn't even make an attempt to try to get her the ball. I am not saying that she does not need to get stronger, but I also hardly recall a pass thrown high in the air for her. They guards would make passes at chest leve, which completely negated her heights. Nobody on that team knew how to pass to her. I could name you 4 players from the Baylor team who could pass the ball better to her.

As long as Phoenix has that shot-happy mentality by the guards BG is a wasted draft pick. I truly wish she had landed in Washington where she would have had a great coach instead of having to endure two that had no intentions of ever establishing her as a go-to player.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Maya is incredibly efficient in movement and use of energy and effort.

Geno taught her that. She used to be high energy, but run around aimlessly, in his view. He harped on her to do it more purposefully.

As Coach tweeted recently, he's proud of her success as a young player. She's on the verge of becoming the world's best player or very close to that. She makes a lot of us proud.

 

[easttexastrash]

In this game, I thought Griner looked very much like deer in headlights. Didn't she get shots blocked at least 3 times? Maya made her look silly. Whalen was picking off the rebounds like she was the 6'8" player. I don't think she was being bypassed intentionally. It's just that Minny seemed to have her handcuffed. But, Diana wasn't much better. I think she's got to watch her mouth and work within the system a bit more. What she's doing now does her team no good.

I thought that basically every player, other than Dupree and BG, played selfishly. They all wanted to be the star and jack up a shot at the first glimmer of daylight. BG got 18 total shots in the series, making 9. Bonner and DT combined to shoot 30 three pointers! THIRTY! And hit a grand total of 3. Now, I'm not that great at math, but I believe that equates to 10%. Hmmm....50% or 10%...which should I choose? I think I will choose the 10% because I don't care if we win or not, as long as I have fun and get to shoot a lot. During each interview with Pennel they would ask him what his biggest concern was and he would say "shot selection." Phoenix shot 39 three pointers in the two games, which is 21 more three pointers than BG even had in shot attempts.

BG has a very nice stroke from 15 feet, but at no point did it seem that she was allowed to do anything but set a pick or post up. This league is too good to just have a player go down and stand on the block and fight for position on every play, especially when she knows she is not going to get the ball anyway. She was completely underutilized and in return gets ragged on for not being productive. Tina Charles shoots the mid-range shot a lot and I bet BG took two or three the entire season. LET HER BREATHE!!!

OK...that's my final rant on this season...bring on the finals!!! I'll be pulling or your girl, Maya.

 

[easttexastrash]

In this game, I thought Griner looked very much like deer in headlights. Didn't she get shots blocked at least 3 times? Maya made her look silly. Whalen was picking off the rebounds like she was the 6'8" player. I don't think she was being bypassed intentionally. It's just that Minny seemed to have her handcuffed. But, Diana wasn't much better. I think she's got to watch her mouth and work within the system a bit more. What she's doing now does her team no good.

She looked like a deer in the headlights because she was shocked at how oftern her teammates jacked up a crappy shot without even trying to work the ball into the paint.

 

[katiecrum1992]

One of the issues that I saw repeatedly this season was that as BG was establishing position, the Phoenix guards would reverse the ball JUST as she got herself positioned. They were so anxious to move the ball to the other side of the court and hopefully jack up a three pointer that they didn't even look to pass the ball to her. As far as her positioning, there were multiple times every game when she had position and the guards didn't even make an attempt to try to get her the ball. I am not saying that she does not need to get stronger, but I also hardly recall a pass thrown high in the air for her. They guards would make passes at chest leve, which completely negated her heights. Nobody on that team knew how to pass to her. I could name you 4 players from the Baylor team who could pass the ball better to her.

As long as Phoenix has that shot-happy mentality by the guards BG is a wasted draft pick. I truly wish she had landed in Washington where she would have had a great coach instead of having to endure two that had no intentions of ever establishing her as a go-to player.

Now that there's a 3 second rule Griner has to move around or she'll get called. She didn't have that in college she could just camp in the paint and wait for a pass. Even if she does get position there the guards have to get it to her(if they decide to pass) when she's open and is in a legal position.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Geno taught her that. She used to be high energy, but run around aimlessly, in his view. He harped on her to do it more purposefully.

As Coach tweeted recently, he's proud of her success as a young player. She's on the verge of becoming the world's best player or very close to that. She makes a lot of us proud.

You're suggesting that Coach Reeve has had nothing to do with Maya's present development? Or her Chinese coaches? Or her professional teammates? Coach Auriemma gets all the credit?

 

[Icebear]

You're suggesting that Coach Reeve has had nothing to do with Maya's present development? Or her Chinese coaches? Or her professional teammates? Coach Auriemma gets all the credit?

That isn't what he said at all.

 

[easttexastrash]

Now that there's a 3 second rule Griner has to move around or she'll get called. She didn't have that in college she could just camp in the paint and wait for a pass. Even if she does get position there the guards have to get it to her(if they decide to pass) when she's open and is in a legal position.

There is no three second rule in college? Did I miss something?

 

[katiecrum1992]

There is no three second rule in college? Did I miss something?

I don't think there is. I'm sure they'll add it at some point in the future, though. They just added it to the WNBA this year. This year they're adding the 10 second backcourt rule.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Now that there's a 3 second rule Griner has to move around or she'll get called. She didn't have that in college she could just camp in the paint and wait for a pass. Even if she does get position there the guards have to get it to her(if they decide to pass) when she's open and is in a legal position.

She had a 3 second rule in college too. What the W has that college doesn't is a defensive 3 second rule. Which remains obscure to my comprehension. But offensive 3 second BG had. It is not consistently called, however.

 

[Icebear]

I don't think there is. I'm sure they'll add it at some point in the future, though. They just added it to the WNBA this year. This year they're adding the 10 second backcourt rule.

There has always been a three second rule in college and high school. Whether officials apply it efficiently and fairly is open to question. Both Stef and Tina Charles have had 3 seconds called on them during their careers at UCONN.

 

[katiecrum1992]

She had a 3 second rule in college too. What the W has that college doesn't is a defensive 3 second rule. Which remains obscure to my comprehension. But offensive 3 second BG had. It is not consistently called, however.

That's strange that there's not one for offense, but one for defense. Don't they mean the same thing?

 

[Icebear]

No, in the WNBA there is a 3 second rule for both offense and defense, in high school and college it is only for offense. The goal in the WNBA was to open up the lanes for more attacks off the bounce.