PG and other stuff

[Danzz]

Our problems begin there. Jalen is young and Gibbs is really a 2. Hamilton stopped doing what he does best: getting in the lane and hitting a floater or passing to Brimah for a dunk. We stopped trying to go inside and turned into a 3 pt. shooting team; a bad choice because we are not a good rebounding team. We got killed on the boards. Too much lateral dribbling. Too many turnovers.
We can still make a run in the tourney assuming we get by UCF and win a game or 2 in the conference tournament. We don't have to win the rebound battle, we just can't get demolished on the boards.

 

[InKembaITrust]

PG and other stuff
Our problems begin there. Jalen is young and Gibbs is really a 2.

I remember creating a thread "This Team Has No PG" saying this 3 months ago and everyone was at my throat defending Gibbs. Gibbs is a cancer wherever he goes, he should not be allowed to dribble penetrate. I do not see a team player when I watch him play. This team has 0 chemistry and is so predictable in their half court offense. That's a product of a lack of a PG and leadership. Next year with Gibbs gone and Alterique & Jalen tag teaming I see a bright future. Wish we could fast forward 1 year.

 

[cohenzone]

Our problems begin there. Jalen is young and Gibbs is really a 2. Hamilton stopped doing what he does best: getting in the lane and hitting a floater or passing to Brimah for a dunk. We stopped trying to go inside and turned into a 3 pt. shooting team; a bad choice because we are not a good rebounding team. We got killed on the boards. Too much lateral dribbling. Too many turnovers.
We can still make a run in the tourney assuming we get by UCF and win a game or 2 in the conference tournament. We don't have to win the rebound battle, we just can't get demolished on the boards.

Given how unpredictable this team is, they have the look of several really bad problems. A#1 is coaching, and I'll get back to that. #2 is lack of a floor leader. #3 is lack of chemistry, as in, do these guys like and trust each other. It might help in the AAC tournament that SMU isn't there and this team is capable of beating and losing to almost any of them, so who knows. Even if they make the NCAAs. I can't see them getting very far. He does look to be having good recruits coming in, but 5 years is plenty for a coach in our program to have to show better stuff and if they under perform again year, I don't know that having a youthful team is an excuse, because they look to have a pretty big group of veterans staying in school.

To A1# - We all want KO to succeed, but we more want UConn to succeed and if he's not the guy, then we can't afford to play many more years of mediocre to bad basketball. At the time Calhoun pretty much forced Manuel to hire Ollie, I felt JC was doing a major disservice to the program. I wasn't against Ollie, I was in favor of what our program deserved - a national search - and if at the end of the day, Ollie still was considered to be the top choice, fine. I get too much of a Paul Pasqualoni feel about Kevin's selection.

As I said in another post, there has been one constant in his tenure, and that is totally inconsistent play not only from game to game, but within long stretches of games. It seems to me that the coaches don't have a scheme or message that gets the ball into the hands of the right players in the right position and cuts the dribbling act that gets us into late clock heaves or uncontrolled drives. He really had two get out jail passes. The first year when the team was banished, and the NC year, which I think really was his savior. I don't mean to discredit him, but that team was not superior during the season. If Brimah doesn't perform a miracle at the end of game one, the rest never happens and last year and this get looked at a lot differently. I do think he did a great job of designing excellent defenses over the rest of that tournament, but he had one kid play out of his mind great. I can't say how I know, but I know that the ticket office has already been told to be ready to host an NIT game. Oh well, spring and bad golf is on the horizon.

 

[intlzncster]

I remember creating a thread "This Team Has No PG" saying this 3 months ago and everyone was at my throat defending Gibbs. Gibbs is a cancer wherever he goes, he should not be allowed to dribble penetrate. I do not see a team player when I watch him play. This team has 0 chemistry and is so predictable in their half court offense. That's a product of a lack of a PG and leadership. Next year with Gibbs gone and Alterique & Jalen tag teaming I see a bright future. Wish we could fast forward 1 year.

Well, you were partially right. Adams will be a really effective combo PG, but he's not ready yet, not enough seasoning.

I personally don't feel Gibbs is a cancer in the least. Just that he's totally miscast in the PG role. He's not a distributor. Probably never will be. He's a shooter. So he takes shots. That's not selfish, it's his role.

The lack of a quality, seasoned PG exacerbates every one else's faults, and I think you're just picking on Gibbs as a result. Two points: if we had that stud PG, I'm guessing you wouldn't be complaining about Gibbs at all, and he'd be much more effective. And two, if you subtracted Gibbs from the team, do you really think they'd be doing any better -> he's not a cancer.

 

[Kitaman]

With our NBA PG head coach and two assistants who played the point, you would think having point guard problems would be the least of our issues. That to me is head scratching especially since we all know Ollie did a great job with Bazz.

Its just been a weird season and results.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Well, you were partially right. Adams will be a really effective combo PG, but he's not ready yet, not enough seasoning.

I personally don't feel Gibbs is a cancer in the least. Just that he's totally miscast in the PG role. He's not a distributor. Probably never will be. He's a shooter. So he takes shots. That's not selfish, it's his role.

The lack of a quality, seasoned PG exacerbates every one else's faults, and I think you're just picking on Gibbs as a result. Two points: if we had that stud PG, I'm guessing you wouldn't be complaining about Gibbs at all, and he'd be much more effective. And two, if you subtracted Gibbs from the team, do you really think they'd be doing any better -> he's not a cancer.

Exactly, as hard as it is to imagine, take Gibbs away from this team and we'd be ALOT worse off. Also, getting lost in all the "blame Gibbs" posts is that JA was alot less effective last night.

 

[KemBuckets21]

Our problems begin there. Jalen is young and Gibbs is really a 2. Hamilton stopped doing what he does best: getting in the lane and hitting a floater or passing to Brimah for a dunk. We stopped trying to go inside and turned into a 3 pt. shooting team; a bad choice because we are not a good rebounding team. We got killed on the boards. Too much lateral dribbling. Too many turnovers.
We can still make a run in the tourney assuming we get by UCF and win a game or 2 in the conference tournament. We don't have to win the rebound battle, we just can't get demolished on the boards.

Agree with all of this. Gibbs is a ballstopper and poor decision maker. Gibbs is a spark off the bench type of guy and rodney should be reinserted into the starting lineup for his d. Coach Kembuckets has spoken.

 

[intlzncster]

With our NBA PG head coach and two assistants who played the point, you would think having point guard problems would be the least of our issues. That to me is head scratching especially since we all know Ollie did a great job with Bazz.

Its just been a weird season and results.

You can't turn water into wine. We have half a PG right now, as he's unseasoned. No coach in the world can magically turn Gibbs/Purvis/Hamilton into point guards.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Well, you were partially right. Adams will be a really effective combo PG, but he's not ready yet, not enough seasoning.

I personally don't feel Gibbs is a cancer in the least. Just that he's totally miscast in the PG role. He's not a distributor. Probably never will be. He's a shooter. So he takes shots. That's not selfish, it's his role.

The lack of a quality, seasoned PG exacerbates every one else's faults, and I think you're just picking on Gibbs as a result. Two points: if we had that stud PG, I'm guessing you wouldn't be complaining about Gibbs at all, and he'd be much more effective. And two, if you subtracted Gibbs from the team, do you really think they'd be doing any better -> he's not a cancer.

I can't help but think how big Terrence Samuel could have been to this team, as a leader, backup PG and defender. He was miscast last year and depended upon to provide offense, which wasn't his strength. He was a huge contributor in that NC run and could have paid big dividends this year. Add him and subtract Cassell and this team is vastly improved.

 

[cohenzone]

You can't turn water into wine. We have half a PG right now, as he's unseasoned. No coach in the world can magically turn Gibbs/Purvis/Hamilton into point guards.

I think you're kind of right, but don't you watch the games and wonder what they work on in practice regarding ball movement, spacing and court awareness? I can't remember seeing any halfway decen team struggle so much to create space for shooters.

 

[Mots010]

I am completely miffed as to how Gibbs averaged 18 points, 4 assists and 2 rebounds with Seton Hall last year. He has shown almost no ability to get into the paint, distribute, create his own shot, and even his spot up shooting isnt all that impressive. Dont get me started on his d. Interesting how Seton Hall is likely a tourney team this year after losing their leading scorer. Don't get me wrong, I think we're better off with him than without him, but I think we can all agree he isnt what we thought or hoped he would be.

As it was said above, we have 1/2 a point guard. It's not our only problem, but its our biggest problem.

 

[Danzz]

I can't help but think how big Terrence Samuel could have been to this team, as a leader, backup PG and defender. He was miscast last year and depended upon to provide offense, which wasn't his strength. He was a huge contributor in that NC run and could have paid big dividends this year. Add him and subtract Cassell and this team is vastly improved.

Samuel, really? He was a poor ball handler and passer. He would bring nothing to this team.

 

[intlzncster]

I think you're kind of right, but don't you watch the games and wonder what they work on in practice regarding ball movement, spacing and court awareness? I can't remember seeing any halfway decen team struggle so much to create space for shooters.

Look, I'm not offering a total exoneration here. Ollie and staff definitely take some of this on their shoulders. But name me a national championship team without a top flight point guard in the past 20 years. If there is one, the list is short as hell.

Sanctions led us to guys like Terrance Samuel and SCjr. That's why I said it is what it is.

Put Alterique on this team and I think you see something totally different. Even if he was a frosh.

 

[Tdaley]

Samuel could have improved this team only marginally. He could get to the hoop and pass fairly well. But he was both a reluctant and poor jump shooter. He was never going to be anything but a role player at this level. He would have been a better fit for this team than cassell. Still, any improvement for this team would have been small.

 

[tzznandrew]

Look, I'm not offering a total exoneration here. Ollie and staff definitely take some of this on there shoulders. But name me a national championship team without a top flight point guard in the past 20 years. If there is one, the list is short as hell.

Sanctions led us to guys like Terrance Samuel and SCjr. That's why I said it is what it is.

Put Alterique on this team and I think you see something totally different. Even if he was a frosh.

We don't get spacing because only Adams can get into the lane--and he can't shoot this year so they sag off of him and deny him that. And Brimah has hands made of stone, so they're more than willing to let any passes go to him when there'll be about as many TOs as conversions.

We've had teams with more talented players look lost and miserable with spacing, so I'm with you. Next's year's team will also be a transitional team, but better than this year I think. Not NC good like we hoped this year's would be, but good nonetheless.

 

[intlzncster]

We don't get spacing because only Adams can get into the lane--and he can't shoot this year so they sag off of him and deny him that. And Brimah has hands made of stone, so they're more than willing to let any passes go to him when there'll be about as many TOs as conversions.

We've had teams with more talented players look lost and miserable with spacing, so I'm with you. Next's year's team will also be a transitional team, but better than this year I think. Not NC good like we hoped this year's would be, but good nonetheless.

Agree. And provided there's player development and right guys stick around, the year after next, we should have an national championship contender on our hands.

 

[tzznandrew]

Agree. And provided there's player development and right guys stick around, the year after next, we should have an national championship contender on our hands.

The team with Sr. DHam (or no DHam), Jr. Adams, Enoch and Larrier, Sophomore Gilbert, Jackson, Diarra, and Durham, and Fr. Brown and others should be NC good, or at least a Final Four threat.

 

[cohenzone]

Look, I'm not offering a total exoneration here. Ollie and staff definitely take some of this on their shoulders. But name me a national championship team without a top flight point guard in the past 20 years. If there is one, the list is short as hell.

Sanctions led us to guys like Terrance Samuel and SCjr. That's why I said it is what it is.

Put Alterique on this team and I think you see something totally different. Even if he was a frosh.

As I said I kind of agree. But somewhere in there is a lack of direction that almost seems to have gotten worse. This team over what's left in the season can't surprise me anymore, be it good, bad or indifferent. Totally unpredictable.

 

[cohenzone]

The team with Sr. DHam (or no DHam), Jr. Adams, Enoch and Larrier, Sophomore Gilbert, Jackson, Diarra, and Durham, and Fr. Brown and others should be NC good, or at least a Final Four threat.

I think DHam, at least as to going pro, seems likely to be in college next year. In another thread I said I think Ollie gets next year to show what he can do. True a lot of the talent will be young, but with Brimah, Facey, Purvis and probably Hamilton as seasoned guys and Adams with a lot of floor time and Enoch who I think is a player, there are plenty of veterans at almost every slot to mix with the new kids. Throw in Larrier and it will be hard to accept the same level of erratic play.

Last thing, the point play is obviously huge, but developing post players who do more than dunk wouldn't hurt the offense either. Miller can do it, but I think he is frustrated and under used and he'll be gone. Enoch seems to have more of an offensive instinct for post play, and I think with proper coaching and play design he could be a factor. Brimah has shown little sign of that and maybe his physique makes it hard for him. Aside from blocking shots he is a bad defender, so if Enoch can be brought up to speed on both ends of the floor, it would be good and leave Facey to play much more at PF.

Win or lose, I'll support them, but supporting a team that looks like it knows what it's doing is definitely easier.

 

[BugsyCT]

No Kemba, no Bazz, no Boat anymore - the absence is glaring. We need another guy like that. A floor leader.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Samuel, really? He was a poor ball handler and passer. He would bring nothing to this team.

You're out of your mind. Did you miss the whole run in 14 that started with KO putting Samuel in while down 10 at USF? I was at that game and everything turned around after his energy and defense. He couldn't shoot, and was counted on to provide that last year. As a defender and backup PG for 10-15 minutes he would have had a good impact. Much more than SCJR, that's for sure.

 

[Horatio]

With our NBA PG head coach and two assistants who played the point, you would think having point guard problems would be the least of our issues. That to me is head scratching especially since we all know Ollie did a great job with Bazz.

Its just been a weird season and results.

I bet if we look back over the last couple of years they probably tried to recruit
Several true PG's. Those kids probably declined due to the state of the program at the time so we had to grab kids like Gibbs and even RJ. They ( coaches) new it was gonna be an issue.

 

[InKembaITrust]

Well, you were partially right. Adams will be a really effective combo PG, but he's not ready yet, not enough seasoning.

I personally don't feel Gibbs is a cancer in the least. Just that he's totally miscast in the PG role. He's not a distributor. Probably never will be. He's a shooter. So he takes shots. That's not selfish, it's his role.

The lack of a quality, seasoned PG exacerbates every one else's faults, and I think you're just picking on Gibbs as a result. Two points: if we had that stud PG, I'm guessing you wouldn't be complaining about Gibbs at all, and he'd be much more effective. And two, if you subtracted Gibbs from the team, do you really think they'd be doing any better -> he's not a cancer.

To be completely honest I do think they'd be a lot better. He's stolen so much time and PG time specifically from Jalen that could've made him a much more confident player and leader to this point. I'll stand by this opinion until the end of the season, unless Gibbs single-handedly wins us the tourney.

And this past game Gibbs was clearly not limited to just a shooting role. He had the ball in his hands far too much at the top of the key getting nothing done. Only credit I'll give to him was showing toughness driving and getting to the free throw line.

I've bashed Gibbs so much this year it never really goes anywhere or amounts to anything. We're stuck with him so there isn't much that we can do, we don't have a back up ball handler for Jalen other than Gibbs so it is what it is. I'm just excited for him to leave. IMO the most overrated player we have coming into this season, followed closely by several others.

This team just can't gel as a TEAM. Leadership troubles, PG Troubles, Big man troubles, it's just a recipe for disaster. Bringing Gibbs in as the starting PG was the biggest mistake our coaching staff could've made. I'm sure we can all agree the next 2 years look very promising and something to look forward to.

 

[Stainmaster]

I'm not a fan of framing the "What if we still had T-Sam" discussion in the context of replacing Gibbs. I personally am not going to try and shunt current players off the team in my mind. But I do find it interesting that as a big advocate for T-Sam last year, a lot of the argument I received in return was that his penetration and distribution didn't matter if he couldn't shoot. Now, we're seeing we can't just bring in a shooter who happens to be 6 foot 2 and plug him in at PG.

 

[Kitaman]

I bet if we look back over the last couple of years they probably tried to recruit
Several true PG's. Those kids probably declined due to the state of the program at the time so we had to grab kids like Gibbs and even RJ. They ( coaches) new it was gonna be an issue.

Yeah I was trying to make a point that our coaches know the point guard duties better than any staff in the country. I think a person can be an effective point guard with proper training and tutelage. Meaning Ollie could have worked Jalen into that role and develop his passing and player placement skills and of course running plays. The natural gifts of awareness, leadership, vision and ball handling are what really separates combos from point guards. Even Kemba seemed more of a combo guard but played the point most effectively.

In other words this team had a rough PG stone (Adams) and at the end of the year its less than polished.

 

[tentoes4rings]

I'm not a fan of framing the "What if we still had T-Sam" discussion in the context of replacing Gibbs. I personally am not going to try and shunt current players off the team in my mind. But I do find it interesting that as a big advocate for T-Sam last year, a lot of the argument I received in return was that his penetration and distribution didn't matter if he couldn't shoot. Now, we're seeing we can't just bring in a shooter who happens to be 6 foot 2 and plug him in at PG.

I wasn't advocating replacing Gibbs. I was making a hypothetical point of having TSam and not Cassell. We all cringe when Cassell sees the floor during even semi meaningful minutes and we sorely need another PG. We don't know what transpired behind closed doors last year to prompt TSam to leave. I assume we had a shot at Gibbs and a loss of playing time was mentioned to Samuel. That conversation should have been with Cassell, not Samuel.

 

[Danzz]

You're out of your mind. Did you miss the whole run in 14 that started with KO putting Samuel in while down 10 at USF? I was at that game and everything turned around after his energy and defense. He couldn't shoot, and was counted on to provide that last year. As a defender and backup PG for 10-15 minutes he would have had a good impact. Much more than SCJR, that's for sure.

Disagree. Samuel was an average defender and the drives and layups he made were the result of open lanes from the threats Bazz and Boat created from the perimeter. Better than Sam Jr? OK I'll give you that but there is a reason he isn't here anymore.

 

[intlzncster]

To be completely honest I do think they'd be a lot better. He's stolen so much time and PG time specifically from Jalen that could've made him a much more confident player and leader to this point. I'll stand by this opinion until the end of the season, unless Gibbs single-handedly wins us the tourney.

And this past game Gibbs was clearly not limited to just a shooting role. He had the ball in his hands far too much at the top of the key getting nothing done. Only credit I'll give to him was showing toughness driving and getting to the free throw line.

This team just can't gel as a TEAM. Leadership troubles, PG Troubles, Big man troubles, it's just a recipe for disaster. Bringing Gibbs in as the starting PG was the biggest mistake our coaching staff could've made. I'm sure we can all agree the next 2 years look very promising and something to look forward to.

Jalen wasn't remotely ready at the beginning of the year. So it was tough to play him too much, especially given the unbalanced schedule. It's not like we could play for the long term, as we had to have some of those games.

I won't get into on Gibbs himself, but what other choice did Ollie have? He was handcuffed from the start, and left to take guys like Samuel and SCjr. Gibbs was making the absolute best of a bad situation. It didn't work out.

As you said above, Gibb has the ball in his hands more than he should, but that's simply because we don't have that second ball handler. It's like 2006 (minus a lot of talent) all over again.

I just think you've made Gibbs the punching bag for your frustrations, when the reasons for this season are long and distinguished.

 

[intlzncster]

Yeah I was trying to make a point that our coaches know the point guard duties better than any staff in the country. I think a person can be an effective point guard with proper training and tutelage. Meaning Ollie could have worked Jalen into that role and develop his passing and player placement skills and of course running plays. The natural gifts of awareness, leadership, vision and ball handling are what really separates combos from point guards. Even Kemba seemed more of a combo guard but played the point most effectively.

In other words this team had a rough PG stone (Adams) and at the end of the year its less than polished.

Players usually make their jumps in the off season, after a season to reflect and learn. Judge the quality of the polishing at the beginning of next year.