Permanent sweet 16 site?

[Blakeon18]

What say you?

An idea floated in today's USA Today paper has a permanent sweet 16 site...Las Vegas.

All 16 teams would go there...it does not mention the final 8 games but I assume they would be played also in Vegas.

The article does not mention anything about the final four so I assume it would move around for the 4 advancing from Vegas.

 

[Orangutan]

This is the idea Debbie Antonelli has been pushing for a while. I would be in favor. Why not?

The current regionals often see soft attendance (except the one UConn sells out in advance).

Vegas could be a yearly event for wbb fans. A sort of yearly convention for fans of all the top teams to come to and celebrate the game.

 

[Charliebball]

This is the idea Debbie Antonelli has been pushing for a while. I would be in favor. Why not?

The current regionals often see soft attendance (except the one UConn sells out in advance).

Vegas could be a yearly event for wbb fans. A sort of yearly convention for fans of all the top teams to come to and celebrate the game.

how about splitting it between South Bend and Hartford...............

 

[Vowelguy]

So let me get this straight: regionals near a team do well but those that require travel have poor attendance. Ergo the solution must be a regional that requires most everyone to fly 1000-3000 miles.

Btw, here's reg attendance last 4 years

ALBY 2018 10090
BPRT 2016 8993
BPRT 2017 8909
ALBY 2015 7973
SPOK 2015 6859
DALL 2016 6580
GBRO 2015 6325
LEX. 2018 5992
LEX. 2016 5929
SPOK 2018 4792
SXFL 2016 4333
KC.. 2018 4185
STCK 2017 3817
OKC. 2015 3604
OKC. 2017 3314
LEX. 2017 2838

 

[Monte]

If this is going to happen, the NCAA has to change their rules. The problem they have is that they will not hold any NCAA Tournament games in a state where Sports Betting is allowed. Now, with recent changes in the laws, we know that such wagering will be allowed in many states, including CT.
Some of you may remember that a few years ago, the Women's Eastern Regionals were to be held in Trenton. At that time, NJ was preparing to allow Sports Betting.
The NCAA, upon hearing this, switched the games to Bridgeport.

 

[Orangutan]

So let me get this straight: regionals near a team do well but those that require travel have poor attendance. Ergo the solution must be a regional that requires most everyone to fly 1000-3000 miles.

Well, it's a whole new paradigm. Yes, it's a flight and a long flight for many. It's also a destination city with plentiful flights and hotel rooms available as well as many other entertainment options for those who don't want to take a trip solely for basketball.

I've never been to a regional before. I will go next year when there is a regional in Chicago and I can simply take public transit. But there is no way I am ever going to fly to Lexington or Spokane or wherever just to watch Notre Dame in a regional. I would gladly fly to Las Vegas to watch the entire sweet 16. The way Chicago weather is, a March trip to Vegas sounds wonderful.

 

[Orangutan]

how about splitting it between South Bend and Hartford.....

So let me get this straight: regionals near a team do well but those that require travel have poor attendance.

I suppose that's the other solution to the current problem. Attendances suffer unless there is a team within driving distance with a large fanbase.

Therefore, permanently put the regionals in the following locations:
EAST: Bridgeport (UConn)
SOUTH: Columbia OR Knoxville (SCar & Tenn.)
MIDWEST: Chicago OR Louisville (Notre Dame & Louisville)
WEST: Spokane (Gonzaga is not a perennial sweet 16 team but they have easily the best attendance for west coast teams)

It's not fair but you'll get good attendances. Otherwise you are in this in between state of having it be somewhat fair (teams sometimes can still play in regionals on virtual home courts) and badly attended. Putting regionals in places like Kansas City works for no one.

 

[bballnut90]

I suppose that's the other solution to the current problem. Attendances suffer unless there is a team within driving distance with a large fanbase.

Therefore, permanently put the regionals in the following locations:
EAST: Bridgeport (UConn)
SOUTH: Columbia OR Knoxville (SCar & Tenn.)
MIDWEST: Chicago OR Louisville (Notre Dame & Louisville)
WEST: Spokane (Gonzaga is not a perennial sweet 16 team but they have easily the best attendance for west coast teams)

It's not fair but you'll get good attendances. Otherwise you are in this in between state of having it be somewhat fair (teams sometimes can still play in regionals on virtual home courts) and badly attended. Putting regionals in places like Kansas City works for no one.

Thing is, attendance trends can change somewhat regularly, and it creates an incredibly unfair advantage for the host teams when they haven't done anything to deserve it. Plus if Tennessee hosts every year, it's going to look that much worse when we continue our Final Four drought by losing at home every year.

I like aspects about the Vegas idea and think it'd be a great idea for die hard fans who can watch a ton of basketball in person, but I just don't see Vegas as a women's basketball hub, nor do I see a lot of fans making the effort to commute that far for regionals. Final Four is a different animal from Regionals, plus most of the Final Fours are in the midwest, south, or east where most of the Final Four teams play. Also, Vegas is pretty isolated, it's driving distance from Southern California (where no one cares much about women's basketball) but everywhere else you'd have to fly in.

In volleyball we see the top seed hosting the regionals, which again creates a significant advantage, but it puts butts in seats and rewards teams that have been successful all year. It also creates greater incentive to land a #1 seed and will make programs like Baylor think harder about scheduling cream puffs at risk of going 33-1 again and not being a #1 seed.

 

[JordyG]

I suppose that's the other solution to the current problem. Attendances suffer unless there is a team within driving distance with a large fanbase.

Therefore, permanently put the regionals in the following locations:
EAST: Bridgeport (UConn)
SOUTH: Columbia OR Knoxville (SCar & Tenn.)
MIDWEST: Chicago OR Louisville (Notre Dame & Louisville)
WEST: Spokane (Gonzaga is not a perennial sweet 16 team but they have easily the best attendance for west coast teams)

It's not fair but you'll get good attendances. Otherwise you are in this in between state of having it be somewhat fair (teams sometimes can still play in regionals on virtual home courts) and badly attended. Putting regionals in places like Kansas City works for no one.

Once again a voice from the reigning NCAA champions has some merit. The regionals need to be near large fan bases that support WCBB. After that, the S16 in a place that will attract WCBB and the occasional fan that has plenty of the necessary amenities, like LV, sound good to me.

 

[Monte]

Well, it's a whole new paradigm. Yes, it's a flight and a long flight for many. It's also a destination city with plentiful flights and hotel rooms available as well as many other entertainment options for those who don't want to take a trip solely for basketball.

I've never been to a regional before. I will go next year when there is a regional in Chicago and I can simply take public transit. But there is no way I am ever going to fly to Lexington or Spokane or wherever just to watch Notre Dame in a regional. I would gladly fly to Las Vegas to watch the entire sweet 16. The way Chicago weather is, a March trip to Vegas sounds wonderful.

Well, the NCAA just has to use common sense(as they have done with Uconn).
Find the teams which draw well, and schedule the

Once again a voice from the reigning NCAA champions has some merit. The regionals need to be near large fan bases that support WCBB. After that, the S16 in a place that will attract WCBB and the occasional fan that has plenty of the necessary amenities, like LV, sound good to me.

The Regionals ARE the Sweet 16.

 

[LasVegasYank]

Mmmmm. Las Vegas?

You betcha.

 

[Carnac]

Well, it's a whole new paradigm. Yes, it's a flight and a long flight for many. It's also a destination city with plentiful flights and hotel rooms available as well as many other entertainment options for those who don't want to take a trip solely for basketball.

I've never been to a regional before. I will go next year when there is a regional in Chicago and I can simply take public transit. But there is no way I am ever going to fly to Lexington or Spokane or wherever just to watch Notre Dame in a regional. I would gladly fly to Las Vegas to watch the entire sweet 16. The way Chicago weather is, a March trip to Vegas sounds wonderful.

I go to LV about 8 times a year. I'll be there in 9 days for the Aces home opener. IF they do schedule all of the regionals in LV on a trial basis, and you come, I'll by the first round!!! I've never been to an NCAA regional either, though I've had several opportunities, as a couple were practically in my back yard. I just did not care for the 4 teams that were scheduled to appear. I would go to LV to watch regional games, you bet!!

ps...You don't have to gamble to enjoy LV. There are lots of other attractions to keep one busy and entertained.
Lots of shopping, stage shows and head liners, and great food. The night life is great!!! If you've never been to LV, you're missing a unique experience. A walk (stroll) down the strip end to end is an absolute must!!!

Double ps.............................. If you come, bring lots of money. The more you bring, the more you'll enjoy the trip.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Vegas has never appealed to me. California has way more than their fair share of West Regionals for men's hoops, not quite as much for women's. I still prefer the idea of moving it around rather than having a permanent site. I've attended one women's regional, hosted by UW. It was on campus at Hec Ed rather than the much bigger Key Arena, I guess they figured they wouldn't sell enough tickets to justify having it at the Key. There were no teams of local interest, but some entertaining games. Georgia vs. Purdue in one game and LSU vs. Texas in the other. All SEC final w/ LSU advancing. I think that was Seimone Augustus's soph year when she really exploded. She was really good.

 

[Carnac]

Vegas has never appealed to me. California has way more than their fair share of West Regionals for men's hoops, not quite as much for women's. I still prefer the idea of moving it around rather than having a permanent site. I've attended one women's regional, hosted by UW. It was on campus at Hec Ed rather than the much bigger Key Arena, I guess they figured they wouldn't sell enough tickets to justify having it at the Key. There were no teams of local interest, but some entertaining games. Georgia vs. Purdue in one game and LSU vs. Texas in the other. All SEC final w/ LSU advancing. I think that was Seimone Augustus's soph year when she really exploded. She was really good.

If they do incorporate having the regionals in one location (which I think is an excellent idea), the concept of moving the location around the country every year so that everyone will get to experience it, would not be a bad idea. I would imagine some venues would be more popular (and profitable) than others.

IF they were to adopt and implement this format, one would think their paramount concern would be maximizing attendance and revenue. They could do worse than having Las Vegas host the games. I say all of this, but I do understand that like UConn, LV is not for everyone. I'd like to see them try it for 5-6 years. If it does not work, or is deemed not feasible, then return to the current format.

 

[Carnac]

I suppose that's the other solution to the current problem. Attendances suffer unless there is a team within driving distance with a large fanbase.

Therefore, permanently put the regionals in the following locations:
EAST: Bridgeport (UConn)
SOUTH: Columbia OR Knoxville (SCar & Tenn.)
MIDWEST: Chicago OR Louisville (Notre Dame & Louisville)
WEST: Spokane (Gonzaga is not a perennial sweet 16 team but they have easily the best attendance for west coast teams)

It's not fair but you'll get good attendances. Otherwise you are in this in between state of having it be somewhat fair (teams sometimes can still play in regionals on virtual home courts) and badly attended. Putting regionals in places like Kansas City works for no one.

Fair is a place where they judge pigs. I think their greatest concern has been, is and will be attendance and revenue, as opposed to any perceived perception of "fairness". IF these 4 locations can withstand the test of time, and scrutiny, they could very well become the permanent site for regional play. Some fans will only go if their team is playing. Others will go if it's convenient, while others will go because they are WCBB fans, and want to watch the penultimate round of NCAA Tournament games, regardless of teams being featured. On the other hand, there are fans that will not go regardless of location.

 

[Old Jim]

I don't see how this make sense to go from four sites to one. Do they sell the tickets in four blocks of 3 games each? Otherwise they lose overall attendance. Also I don't think many fans will pay out the money to go Vegas and then pay big bucks to go to the Final Four.

 

[ochoopsfan]

The biggest advantage to have the Sweet 16 in one spot is that you dont have to worry what regional you are put in as all of the teams now go to one place. Which in tern means you can book your reservations far enough in advance and get cheaper flights and hotel rooms. Right now you cant book a regional until the brackets come out. Yes I know UConn will be in Bridgeport or Albany or somewhere, but the others dont know that. Suppose UConn is ranked 8th next season going into the dance (unrealistic but we dont know), wouldnt you at least be happy knowing no matter where you are put you are going to Vegas, or would you rather wait for the last week to find out its Dallas or South Bend or Spokane? Vegas is an ideal location as it is easy to get to from any city. If your team loses in the first game you are still in a great location to do something else. Ask So Carolina or Duke or any of the other teams, or its fans, that had to go to Spokane or Fresno in the past few years whether they would rather go there or Vegas. There are very few flights that go direct from the east coast to Spokane or Fresno so a 4-5 hour direct flight to Vegas is probably quicker than a connecting flight to Fresno. I went to a game in Spokane, Zags vs USC, and had a 2+ hour layover in SLC to get back to LA.
As for drawing fans, just take a look how an expansion hockey team has done in the desert. Also, there are a ton of fans in Vegas for March Madness and you will get plenty to come over for a session or two of the girls game. Another thing, the weather in Vegas is ideal in March, can you say that about anywhere else other than maybe Florida? Finally, I will be there for it.

 

[Charliebball]

Miami might not be a bad spot..........easy for east and midwest schools to get to........plenty to do, plenty of hotel rooms

 

[Monte]

What about, choice of seats? This past spring in Albany, I had 2 seats in the 2nd row behind the Uconn bench(because of the help of a poster on this site).
I would wager anything, that I would never be able to get a seat like that in Vegas.
I do NOT like to go to a game and watch the action with binoculars. I would rather stay home and watch the games on TV.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

ps...You don't have to gamble to enjoy LV. There are lots of other attractions to keep one busy and entertained.
Lots of shopping, stage shows and head liners, and great food. The night life is great!!! If you've never been to LV, you're missing a unique experience. A walk (stroll) down the strip end to end is an absolute must!!!

Double ps..... If you come, bring lots of money. The more you bring, the more you'll enjoy the trip.

The above is the complaint of the casinos. Sure, they make good money in whatever fashion from shows, restaurants, shops all the rest of it.

But gambling is the mint. And it isn't (as I understand it) as popular as it once was.

We have been 5 times, from one night to 6 nights. For conventions or shows. Usually stay at the Southpoint. Love visiting the strip, but it is a good place to spend a lot of money even if you don't gamble. Shows and concerts are not cheap.

That said, Pac WBB tourney will be there next 2 years while permanent home in Seattle is renovated. Hope to be able to get to at least one of them, Seattle is way to far unless Arizona is expected to win it (I can dream, can't I).

 

[oldude]

While I’m sure that the idea of a permanent site for Sweet 16 games in Vegas has appeal for some fans, I’m not sure that it would appeal to most WBB fans, who are a decidedly different breed than the crowd that typically travels to Vegas. It’s an expensive trip and, from a geographic standpoint, it’s a long haul from just about anywhere.

 

[LasVegasYank]

Not quite as expensive as you might think.

Las Vegas is a huge destination (the hotels on the corner where the MGM Grand is located have more rooms than the city of Boston) and is in a position to easily absorb the entire body of attendees for an event the size of the NCAA regionals. Flights in/out of McCarren carry more than 35 million people per year and the regionals wouldn't make a dent in that.

If you stay on/near the strip you wouldn't need a rental car if walking doesn't bother you. Side trips to the Hoover dam/Grand Canyon and other out of town attractions leave directly from most strip hotels (check with the front desk or concierge). A huge variety of buffets/restaurants are within easy reach (I recommend the buffet at the Bellagio, split king crab legs and a cornucopia of earthly delights, although a bit pricey). Do some research online well before you go. Try Priceline for hotel/flight combos to give you a baseline for trip costs. It's fun to plan.

I generally stay at the Suncoast, a locals hotel/casino with a medium sized casino. Nice quiet location well off the strip within striking distance of Red Rock Casino/hotel and the Rapart casino, both locals favorites. The Suncoast is clean and has large rooms, some of which have golf course views through floor to ceiling windows. Restaurant selections are limited but they have a nice Italian place, decent steakhouse and terrific seafood place with decent raw bar. I wouldn't recommend the Chinese place as I ate there once and the Beef Chow Fun was tough as shoe leather. Their café (Dupars)serves terrific breakfasts and provides room service to hotel guests. The buffet is OK, I'd give it a solid B. Staff is friendly and efficient. They offer shuttles to/from the strip (check the front desk for times) so you can day trip there if you want to.

Don't be surprised if your hotel adds a "resort fee" to your bill, almost every one of them does (the Suncoast adds $25/day). It can really add up and make sure your quoted rate includes that fee or you'll have a surprise waiting for you when you settle your bill.

P.S. We like to gamble so our "tourist" side takes a back seat for our trips.

P.P.S. Our daughter lives there so we spend a significant amount of time with her on her days off.

 

[oldude]

Not quite as expensive as you might think.

Las Vegas is a huge destination (the hotels on the corner where the MGM Grand is located have more rooms than the city of Boston) and is in a position to easily absorb the entire body of attendees for an event the size of the NCAA regionals. Flights in/out of McCarren carry more than 35 million people per year and the regionals wouldn't make a dent in that.

If you stay on/near the strip you wouldn't need a rental car if walking doesn't bother you. Side trips to the Hoover dam/Grand Canyon and other out of town attractions leave directly from most strip hotels (check with the front desk or concierge). A huge variety of buffets/restaurants are within easy reach (I recommend the buffet at the Bellagio, split king crab legs and a cornucopia of earthly delights, although a bit pricey). Do some research online well before you go. Try Priceline for hotel/flight combos to give you a baseline for trip costs. It's fun to plan.

I generally stay at the Suncoast, a locals hotel/casino with a medium sized casino. Nice quiet location well off the strip within striking distance of Red Rock Casino/hotel and the Rapart casino, both locals favorites. The Suncoast is clean and has large rooms, some of which have golf course views through floor to ceiling windows. Restaurant selections are limited but they have a nice Italian place, decent steakhouse and terrific seafood place with decent raw bar. I wouldn't recommend the Chinese place as I ate there once and the Beef Chow Fun was tough as shoe leather. Their café (Dupars)serves terrific breakfasts and provides room service to hotel guests. The buffet is OK, I'd give it a solid B. Staff is friendly and efficient. They offer shuttles to/from the strip (check the front desk for times) so you can day trip there if you want to.

Don't be surprised if your hotel adds a "resort fee" to your bill, almost every one of them does (the Suncoast adds $25/day). It can really add up and make sure your quoted rate includes that fee or you'll have a surprise waiting for you when you settle your bill.

P.S. We like to gamble so our "tourist" side takes a back seat for our trips.

P.P.S. Our daughter lives there so we spend a significant amount of tie with her on her days off.

Sounds like you work for the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce.

 

[Charliebball]

Not quite as expensive as you might think.

Las Vegas is a huge destination (the hotels on the corner where the MGM Grand is located have more rooms than the city of Boston) and is in a position to easily absorb the entire body of attendees for an event the size of the NCAA regionals. Flights in/out of McCarren carry more than 35 million people per year and the regionals wouldn't make a dent in that.

P.S. We like to gamble so our "tourist" side takes a back seat for our trips.

P.P.S. Our daughter lives there so we spend a significant amount of tie with her on her days off.

Las Vegas certainly can be quite a bargain if you're not there during one of the big convention/show weeks..............it's always fascinating to see the hotel room you paid $119 the night before rise to $399 for the rest of the week...............food costs are significantly lower then most big cities although you can find ridiculously good but expensive meals if that's your thing........if you can stay out of the casinos you can have a fun and remarkably cheap vacation there.........

 

[LasVegasYank]

Just as an aside, the new casino in Springfield, MA, opens in August (along with a 4,000 space parking garage). That's less than 25 minutes North of Hartford, Interstate 91 all the way. That's significantly less travel time and distance than the rides to The Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods (back roads mostly).

 

[Carnac]

Las Vegas certainly can be quite a bargain if you're not there during one of the big convention/show weeks....it's always fascinating to see the hotel room you paid $119 the night before rise to $399 for the rest of the week.....food costs are significantly lower then most big cities although you can find ridiculously good but expensive meals if that's your thing...if you can stay out of the casinos you can have a fun and remarkably cheap vacation there....

Las Vegas also has several RV parks for your consideration. I recommend the Oasis RV Resort. It's the only RV park I use when we take our RV for a 4-7 day stay. The rates are reasonable, it's clean, safe, and pet friendly. It's located right off the I-15 freeway (Blue Diamond offramp) Their daily rates range from $47 - $84 depending on the day of the week. The $84 is the holiday rate for a premium site. RV parks are much cheaper than a hotel room, and there are no resort fees.

Note - As Las Vegas Yank commented, those "DAILY resort fees" are no joke. They usually are not included in the advertised daily room rate you'll see when shopping for hotels on the Internet. There are hotels (usually far away from the strip) that do not charge resort fees, but you have to hunt for them.

 

[Charliebball]

Las Vegas also has several RV parks for your consideration. I recommend the Oasis RV Resort. It's the only RV park I use when we take our RV for a 4-7 day stay. The rates are reasonable, it's clean, safe, and pet friendly. It's located right off the I-15 freeway (Blue Diamond offramp) Their daily rates range from $47 - $84 depending on the day of the week. The $84 is the holiday rate for a premium site. RV parks are much cheaper than a hotel room, and there are no resort fees.

How much for an RV?.............

 

[Carnac]

I don't think many fans will pay out the money to go Vegas and then pay big bucks to go to the Final Four.[/QUOTE]

The numbers might surprise you. It's a gamble the NCAA may be willing to look at. Remember, some teams always travel well, regardless of the venue they're assigned to. Some fans will follow their team during the tournament all three weekends. They are "die-hard" fans, and want to attend EVERY game their team plays. This is a once-a-year event. Some even treat this as a vacation. But, as you say, some won't. UConn has a large fan base, but only a scant few travel to every road game, including the post season tournament games.

The NCAA seldom has a problem selling tickets for the final four. Those fans buy their tickets far in advance obviously not knowing if their team will make it that far or not. They are WCBB fans who want to see the final games featuring the 4 remaining teams, and watch the crowing of the eventual champion regardless of the participants. Some fans will buy tickets at the last minute IF their team makes it that far. Last minute tickets are always available. There are ALWAYS scalpers outside of the arena eagerly waiting to satisfy all of your needs. So getting a last minute ticket is never a problem.

The final four weekend is not in competition with the regional games weekend. If you're going to go, you're going to go. Some fans go to both, others only to one. I think it depends on on'e level of interest, finances and if they can get the time off work (if they are employed), or if they are retired and able to travel freely. This is an idea I'd like to see tried maybe for 2 years in Las Vegas, then 2 years at another venue. If the numbers meet or exceed expectations, then perhaps they can make the "one-site" for the regionals permanent, if not, they can always return to it's current format.

 

[MSGRET]

The above is the complaint of the casinos. Sure, they make good money in whatever fashion from shows, restaurants, shops all the rest of it.

But gambling is the mint. And it isn't (as I understand it) as popular as it once was.

We have been 5 times, from one night to 6 nights. For conventions or shows. Usually stay at the Southpoint. Love visiting the strip, but it is a good place to spend a lot of money even if you don't gamble. Shows and concerts are not cheap.

That said, Pac WBB tourney will be there next 2 years while permanent home in Seattle is renovated. Hope to be able to get to at least one of them, Seattle is way to far unless Arizona is expected to win it (I can dream, can't I).

Actually food and entertainment makes more money and profit then the gambling according to the Nevada Gaming Commission. It has been that way for the past 5 years.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Actually food and entertainment makes more money and profit then the gambling according to the Nevada Gaming Commission. It has been that way for the past 5 years.

That was what I read. The point being - according to the article I read - the gambling has a higher profit percentage. Put another way, they aren't complaining about the money they make from the food and entertainment, but complaining that they are not making more from gambling.

OTH, I'm sure there are lots of folks like us, who don't gamble at all. Still plenty to do.