Penny = Calipari II

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He recruits like crazy but Hardaway is an awful coach. He follows the Calipari method of just letting guys go out there and do what looks good to get to the NBA and hopes the talent will carry them. Doesn’t put players in position to do what will help his team win. Precious shooting from outside when he was dominant in the post is example #1.

This isn’t taking anything away from our guys who played great yesterday, particularly the bigs after Akok went down. But my lord Hardaway is a glorified AAU coach.
 

intlzncster

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Calipari is not the bad coach everyone makes him out to be*. Ignoring vacated records:
  • In 12 yrs, his finishes at UK are: 1 NC; 1 Runner Up; 4 FFs; 7 Elite 8s; 8 SSs. 9 Tournament appearances. [i know there's doubling up here, but idk how to present it clearly] 6 SEC Tournament Champs. 5 conference champs.
  • Getting Memphis to within a robbed bucket of a NC is quite impressive.
  • He took UMass to a FF. UMass.
This is absurd success. Now compare that to Penny.


*Excuse me while I go puke a little and clean out my mouth
 

Chin Diesel

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I'll leave Calipari out of the conversation, but Penny is showing to be a good head coach.

Memphis is one of the top defensive teams in the country and starts multiple freshmen. When you consistently hold teams to low FG%, team defense has to be solid. Team defense means players know their role and know where to be. Getting freshmen to do that consistently requires good coaching.
 

tzznandrew

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Calipari is not the bad coach everyone makes him out to be*. Ignoring vacated records:
  • In 12 yrs, his finishes at UK are: 1 NC; 1 Runner Up; 4 FFs; 7 Elite 8s; 8 SSs. 9 Tournament appearances. [i know there's doubling up here, but idk how to present it clearly] 6 SEC Tournament Champs. 5 conference champs.
  • Getting Memphis to within a robbed bucket of a NC is quite impressive.
  • He took UMass to a FF. UMass.
This is absurd success. Now compare that to Penny.


*Excuse me while I go puke a little and clean out my mouth
Imagine thinking a coach who did this is a bad coach:

Screen Shot 2020-02-17 at 11.16.50 AM.png


Dude has been to 4 Final Fours in 10 years...one fewer than we've ever been to.

1 title
1 runner-up
4 final fours
7 Elite 8s
8 Sweet 16s

70% of the time they were playing with a chance to go to the Final Four, 40% of the time they were in the final weekend.

I mean, Duke, UConn, and Villanova, are the only schools you'd swap with over this time period, and (a) Duke & Villanova have been upset in the tournament way more and in way more embarrassing ways (especially earlier in the tournament) and (b) UConn has 2 titles in only 4 appearances in the decade (so, like, UK had a better decade, but titles are what matters).

Yes, he gets a higher number of the best players than UConn, but so does Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc. There are a bunch of schools who try to do this, and he does it as well/better than all of them.
 

kobe

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ive actually been pleasantly surprised with Penny as a coach. to get a team of practically all freshman to play as well defensively as he has is credit to him and his staff. calipari, for as much grief as he gets, does a similar thing with his teams.

penny's problem is he's dealing with kids ranked 30-75 as his freshman whereas Cal is dealing with kids 1-30. that slight gap in talent is really whats holding them back from being a surefire tournament team (obviously losing wiseman is a large reason for this as well as dj jefferies being out a lot this season).

i wanted to make fun of him for being a "roll the ball out and let em play" coach but he really hasnt been that way, IMO.
 

tzznandrew

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ive actually been pleasantly surprised with Penny as a coach. to get a team of practically all freshman to play as well defensively as he has is credit to him and his staff. calipari, for as much grief as he gets, does a similar thing with his teams.

penny's problem is he's dealing with kids ranked 30-75 as his freshman whereas Cal is dealing with kids 1-30. that slight gap in talent is really whats holding them back from being a surefire tournament team (obviously losing wiseman is a large reason for this as well as dj jefferies being out a lot this season).

i wanted to make fun of him for being a "roll the ball out and let em play" coach but he really hasnt been that way, IMO.
Seriously. Add Wiseman and Jeffries to Precious, and they're probably a Top 15-20 team all year (though not the title contender he promised). He's actually designed some decent plays, etc.

If he keeps recruiting as well as he has, and they get real depth, I think they'll be a solid team at the top of the AAC with Houston, Cincy, and Wichita.
 

uconnbill

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His team plays defense which is something many young players coming from high school don't do well for the most part.
Penny is good for Memphis as it is bringing the school back to where it was in years past.
I may be the only one, but I wouldn't mind UConn playing them after this season along with Temple from the AAC
 

intlzncster

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Imagine thinking a coach who did this is a bad coach:

View attachment 50969

Dude has been to 4 Final Fours in 10 years...one fewer than we've ever been to.

1 title
1 runner-up
4 final fours
7 Elite 8s
8 Sweet 16s

70% of the time they were playing with a chance to go to the Final Four, 40% of the time they were in the final weekend.

I mean, Duke, UConn, and Villanova, are the only schools you'd swap with over this time period, and (a) Duke & Villanova have been upset in the tournament way more and in way more embarrassing ways (especially earlier in the tournament) and (b) UConn has 2 titles in only 4 appearances in the decade (so, like, UK had a better decade, but titles are what matters).

Yes, he gets a higher number of the best players than UConn, but so does Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc. There are a bunch of schools who try to do this, and he does it as well/better than all of them.
It's impossible to argue he hasn't been one of the most consistent coaches in all of college basketball. Him and K.

What steams me even more is that, when we beat them in 2011 and 2014, people ripped Cal for failing. That just makes your victory less impressive, worth less. We beat very good teams with a very good coach both of those times.

And not for nothing, 60%+ of college coaching is recruiting. Probably higher. Recruiting is the single most important thing a college coach does. And Cal crushes that, bag men aside.

god defending Cal twice in one thread makes me want to off myself.
 
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I'll leave Calipari out of the conversation, but Penny is showing to be a good head coach.

Memphis is one of the top defensive teams in the country and starts multiple freshmen. When you consistently hold teams to low FG%, team defense has to be solid. Team defense means players know their role and know where to be. Getting freshmen to do that consistently requires good coaching.
They were easily the most individually talented team we played this year. Their inexperience kills them along with TO’s and bad decisions and lack of a true leader hurts them in close games.
Actually they were pretty well coached for youngsters. .
If everyone comes back but PA they will be tough next year.
 
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Calipari is not the bad coach everyone makes him out to be*. Ignoring vacated records:
  • In 12 yrs, his finishes at UK are: 1 NC; 1 Runner Up; 4 FFs; 7 Elite 8s; 8 SSs. 9 Tournament appearances. [i know there's doubling up here, but idk how to present it clearly] 6 SEC Tournament Champs. 5 conference champs.
  • Getting Memphis to within a robbed bucket of a NC is quite impressive.
  • He took UMass to a FF. UMass.
This is absurd success. Now compare that to Penny.


*Excuse me while I go puke a little and clean out my mouth
I don’t think anyone is denying he has great results, but let’s also be honest here that a lot of that success is generally just related to him having an overwhelming talent advantage over basically anyone in college basketball for many of those years. Since he took over UK, he has averaged almost 3 first round picks per season. Let that sink in for a bit. 26 first round picks. He’s a great manager of personalities but I think it’s fair to question his ability to develop talent and his in-game strategy.
 

intlzncster

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I don’t think anyone is denying he has great results, but let’s also be honest here that a lot of that success is generally just related to him having an overwhelming talent advantage over basically anyone in college basketball for many of those years. Since he took over UK, he has averaged almost 3 first round picks per season. Let that sink in for a bit. 26 first round picks. He’s a great manager of personalities but I think it’s fair to question his ability to develop talent and his in-game strategy.
College coaching is about having more talent, more often than not. Calhoun had butt loads of talent. We had the most talented team in the country in 2004. We had the most talented player in the country in 2011. We had equivalent talent to Duke in 1999, idc about the media BS narrative there. But JC's real skill was being able to identify that talent among the 'not' top 20 kids.

Look at UMass. Were they that talented? They had two really good players. One of whom was truly elite.

And having talent, and getting them to play as a team, are two different things. It's a totally different skill to get these kids, all alpha dog types their whole lives, to sublimate themselves for the team. Especially when they are trying to show themselves for the draft. That's great coaching.

3rd time defending this man. anyone has my permission to firing squad my arse rn
 
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On an irrelevant note, I met Hardaway in the hotel bar across from XL on Saturday night, watching the end of Tulsa/Houston, and he couldn’t have been a nicer guy. When getting up to leave he offered to change the channel for me since I’d come in after him. Wished him luck on Sunday even though I didn’t mean it...
 
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On an irrelevant note, I met Hardaway in the hotel bar across from XL on Saturday night, watching the end of Tulsa/Houston, and he couldn’t have been a nicer guy. When getting up to leave he offered to change the channel for me since I’d come in after him. Wished him luck on Sunday even though I didn’t mean it...
And the guy has drive to be successful. he made enough dough in his NBA career to not have to do this.
 
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Duh. He gets great talent, incredible talent. Remember when Calipari was going to remake college basketball with his style and U.K. would win titles on a regular basis? Penney looks to be doing the same.
 

intlzncster

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Duh. He gets great talent, incredible talent. Remember when Calipari was going to remake college basketball with his style and U.K. would win titles on a regular basis? Penney looks to be doing the same.
He did. Him and Duke have been killing it. Turns out it's really freakin hard to win NCs. Only UConn fans don't get this.
 
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still skeptical he'll have the same degree of success recruiting as he did this year. i think it was a perfect storm that will hopefully never be replicated. they don't have any crystal balls in the top 100 for 2020. in 2021 he'll sign mousse cisse, who just happened to relocate to memphis before his senior year *cough wiseman cough* but that's it.
 

FatHank

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College coaching is about having more talent, more often than not. Calhoun had butt loads of talent. We had the most talented team in the country in 2004. We had the most talented player in the country in 2011. We had equivalent talent to Duke in 1999, idc about the media BS narrative there. But JC's real skill was being able to identify that talent among the 'not' top 20 kids.

Look at UMass. Were they that talented? They had two really good players. One of whom was truly elite.

And having talent, and getting them to play as a team, are two different things. It's a totally different skill to get these kids, all alpha dog types their whole lives, to sublimate themselves for the team. Especially when they are trying to show themselves for the draft. That's great coaching.

3rd time defending this man. anyone has my permission to firing squad my arse rn
Nah guy, you're on point.

I have no beef with Cal.

They were an adversary of ours back when he was in Mass and we whipped 'em good. It was a great rivalry. If I am not mistaken UMass cancelled the series becase they had enough of a whooping and soon after that JC took us all off to another level. I stopped caring about UMass and K at that time. We won the war.

Fast forward to him in Kentucky. And, yes, we beat them for a ring too. Something absurd like 60% of his starters were freshan. Riduculous. If you think we have expectations, imagine coaching there. His record stands for itself. As for Penny, I wish him well. I just have not seen too much of his coaching results to make a decision on him yet. He should, however, clean his recruiting act up. Might wanna stop paying folks' bills. Just sayin'.
 
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A friend of mine sat a few rows behind the Memphis bench yesterday and said one of the assistants did all the coaching and Penny only handled substitutions and never really talked to the team. Anyone else see that? Watching from TV I couldn't tell what Penny did or didn't do.
 

Hans Sprungfeld

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Duh. He gets great talent, incredible talent. Remember when Calipari was going to remake college basketball with his style and U.K. would win titles on a regular basis? Penney looks to be doing the same.
And so you swing by 14 posts later to learn that you got people here to defend BOTH Hardaway & Calipari, start off with a meaningless, "Duh," a close out with a typical misspelling.
You got game.
 
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intlzncster

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A friend of mine sat a few rows behind the Memphis bench yesterday and said one of the assistants did all the coaching and Penny only handled substitutions and never really talked to the team. Anyone else see that? Watching from TV I couldn't tell what Penny did or didn't do.
It was the bald guy with the thick dark glasses no? I noticed that on TV
 

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