Penn St sanctions | Page 6 | The Boneyard

Penn St sanctions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Icebear

Andlig Ledare
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,784
Reaction Score
19,227
Emmert denied today that Penn State was threatened with a four year death penalty. There is still a lot of crap going around in the media. When questioned about why the NCAA rushed to act so quickly Emmert stated they felt pressured by the media to do something. So much for letting justice move forward. Two of the victims are reported to have stated today that they were never approached by either the NCAA or the BOT of PSU to be asked any questions including the events involving PSU.
 

JS

Moderator
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
2,001
Reaction Score
9,695
Now that more (not yet full) disclosure surfaces, it is clear to me that Erickson (1) should have called Emmert's bluff; and (2) should have kept the trustees in the loop.

Had he said, in effect, "You (NCAA) don't have the authority or the jurisdiction to hit PSU with a four year death penalty, and if you try to impose it, we will challenge you in court!." he would have been backed by his trustees, every opponent on the PSU schedule (and the Big Ten), plus half the State of Pennsylvania.

I believe he could have then negotiated from a stronger position
I think he probably DID call Emmert's bluff, if you want to call it that instead of an opening negotiating position. Erickson said (to himself in his recounting, but no question at the bargaining table as well) "I can't accept that." And the subtext of that is: "If you push us too far, we'll have no choice but to litigate, which neither of us really wants, so let's talk." Emmert would've understood this very well, and obviously did.

Hey Vowel: This is not a matter of idiots who don't get it. It's a matter of real world negotiation to find something both sides can live with. Penn State had no obligation to accept just anything NCAA proposed no matter what, no matter if overkill, no matter how ill considered. Nor, Ozzie, does contrition require it to do so. We needn't be blinded by the glare of the torches we hold aloft. And promptly shifting metaphors, Penn State has legitimate interests in this matter and needn't grovel like a soon-to-be-executed eunuch before the sultan.

Erickson had an obligation to stick up for the interests of the university and did. And "everybody else in the country" wouldn't think otherwise if it ended up in court, particularly if Penn State won, which in my personal opinion it would have. But at what cost?

Which brings us to the dissident trustees. It's not "laughable" that they might consider themselves to be something more than the aforementioned prostrate eunuch. One may scorn and loathe them, based on whatever one knows or thinks one knows about them (there are a lot of them, and I don't view them as a lump), but their opposition to the idea of Erickson making an end run around them -- echh, the inevitable football images creep in again -- isn't at all out of line.

Whether or not they agree with the terms of the settlement, trustees have a fiduciary obligation to look after the money. They can duly delegate part of that power, for example to a qualified investment manager subject to proper monitoring, but they can be personally liable if they let others assume their function without proper delegation. Again, Erickson says he consulted with counsel and had the authority. Not having read the relevant PSU governing documents, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt pending events.

Having said that, I think the dissident trustees would be unwise to pursue the dual burden of proving in court, first, that Erickson lacked the authority, and then in a likely second lawsuit that the NCAA lacked the authority to impose whatever it would then try to impose. (It hasn't unilaterally imposed anything at this point. It has achieved something by threat to impose.)

The consent decree isn't all that bad from Penn State's point of view IMO. I've said that I like where the money is going, and will add that it's probably more effectively dedicated to anti-child abuse organizations than the millions that will be paid to particular victims, whose scars will not be healed by money, and their attorneys.

Above all, there's something to be said for stability in the result, and to be said for going forward to something other than years of uncertainty and incremental legal expense. The same will hold true of the civil settlements, rather than trials to a conclusion, that I suspect will be reached. The board of trustees and president need to clean up their relationship as best they can to work effectively for the university.
 

Kibitzer

Sky Soldier
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
5,676
Reaction Score
24,714
Emmert denied today that Penn State was threatened with a four year death penalty. There is still a lot of crap going around in the media. When questioned about why the NCAA rushed to act so quickly Emmert stated they felt pressured by the media to do something. So much for letting justice move forward. Two of the victims are reported to have stated today that they were never approached by either the NCAA or the BOT of PSU to be asked any questions including the events involving PSU.

The pressure to "do something" and base their actions on the Freeh report (not any NCAA investigation) suggests to me that the NCAA position had sandy underpinnings. Now one has to wonder if the speed and timing of the statue removal was a last-ditch effort to curry favor with the NCAA. Or was that just a coincidence?
 

JS

Moderator
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
2,001
Reaction Score
9,695
Emmert denied today that Penn State was threatened with a four year death penalty.
I frankly was surprised to see the report that he said anything at all about the parties' negotiating positions. Normally such talk would be forbidden in the consent decree or a side letter.

There just about no way a party can benefit from having its negotiating positions publicized. On the other hand, there are lots of ways in which it can suffer a detriment. It can be embarrassed or criticized -- for having asked for too much, or too little, or the wrong thing, etc. -- or it can taken more lightly than it wishes, for future reference, on account of having compromised.

So I wonder if NCAA squawked, and Erickson, having failed to observe the confidentiality clause, backtracked, maybe relying on some differentiation ("I deny that that was what they asked for exactly.") If so, he'll have no further comment on the specifics and certainly won't clarify them.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
http://www.bennovak.net/2012/03/reflections-of-a-former-trustee/

Interesting read.

The more I think about this, and the more I learn about how the power, and decision making structure of Penn State University is set up, it looks more and more like a classic dictatorship model of governance, very close to a military style actually. Very, very difficult to change a dictatorship culture like that, that apparently is 40+ years in the making going back to 1970 - from within. And it does appear, that Erickson has used the threat the NCAA gave, and his defense of the culture, to continue to play football, although restricted, rather than completely shut down....as a point to consolidate his power. IT appears, that in the past 24 hours, the BOT, upon finding out in what danger their culture and community was in, has shut up about it all.

I find it particularly striking, in the fromer BOT member's writing I just posted, the story of the nurses that had evidence of a significant STD outbreak on campus, but suppressed their feelings and outreach about it to the administration, because they were fearful for their jobs.

really? a nurse at a campus health facility, is fearful for their job by reporting to the university administration that they've got reason to believe there is an STD outbreak on campus?

A janitor was afraid for his job too, in telling his superiors about Jerry Sandusky.

I don't believe that the sanctions will change the culture. I do believe, that no football in State College, no fall football weekends in Happy Valley for a couple years, would have.

Given what PSU was facing, the complete shutdown of football, this will be interpreted by the dictatorship culture of leadership, as a successful defense of their culture. They took their hits, but the dictatorship will continue, as new power players struggle for their positions in the system.
 

Kibitzer

Sky Soldier
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
5,676
Reaction Score
24,714
Here is an excellent piece by an Ohio State fan calling the whole media and mess to task. It is well thought out and written.

http://pennstatetrustee.com/2012/07/25/thank-you-ohio-state-alumnus-a-level-head-at-last/

No question but that this is a thoughtful and serious piece that focuses on several important facts about the Sandusky matter that were insufficiently reported while some less substantive but more sensational elements of this story were stressed, even emblazoned on headlines or story lead-ins. All to the detriment of accuracy, objectivity and fairness.

Now I will nitpick. The author engages -- inadvertently, to be sure -- in a common form of stereotyping. Throughout his article, he makes reference to "the media" as if all news outlets comprise a monolithic lock-step mentality as they present their version of the news.

Not so fast.

Newspapers are a news medium. They are not all alike (contrast the NY Times with the NY Post). Fox News is a television news medium. So is MSNBC. Anyone see the similarity between O'Reilly and O'Donnell?

I could go on, but my point is that "media" is a plural noun (preferable to "mediums"), representing the disparate and diversified news outlets in print or available electronically. Placement of the unnecessary article "the" before "media" lumps them all together in a stereotypical manner.

Perhaps I am quixotic about this, but if this author is so hell-bent on fair and accurate (commentary about) reporting, he would use specifying phrases like "almost all news outlets failed to adequately or accurately report the facts about that 1998 report." Or, "The only news outlet that I know of to present accurate and balanced discussions about the Sandusky matter was 'All Things Considered' on NPR. Others consistently over-sensationalized this story."

I persist. It's media, plural, not the media, singular.

Mark Twain: "The difference betweeen the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug."
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
22,817
Reaction Score
9,456
Wow. That was some kind of nitpick.

It's entirely speculation on my part, what follows now:

But with the intertwining branches of the board of directors at teh Second Mile, the PSU BOT, the president, the officers, the governor, the local and state DA's, AG's.......i don' t find it hard to believe, that somewhere along the tree, from the initial report, up to the highest levels, that somebody didn't feel the need to pursue Sandusky in too much detail in 1998, because the information had been filtered out, to the point where it was nothing, by the time it got high enough in the tree.

There's at least two real examples, I know of now, where not just one, but a whole stratum of lower level employees of the university, were unwilling to pass damaging information to the public reputation of the university up the chain, for fear of their jobs. The janitors in the football facility, and the nurses in the health facility.

That kind of fear, that kind of culture...how do you intellectuals all suggest it changes? How do you change a culture, where the institution, is so powerful and image so pristine, that those down below, who's family is fed by their paycheck, is unwillingly to their superiors, what individually, they absolutely know they should do, but when part of the culture, cannot do.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
22,380
Reaction Score
54,924
Hey Vowel: This is not a matter of idiots who don't get it.

Hey JS, am I allowed to have my own opinion?

It is my belief that the vast majority of the public, and the CFB community, has no sympathy for Penn St. As such, they would view any attempt by PSU to push back/resist its punishment/negotiate better terms _extremely negatively_. And, in my opinion, that would only make things worse. Far worse. Hell hath no fury like abysmal PR.

The prez calculated that he needed to get this done and resolved ASAP. I agree.
 

Icebear

Andlig Ledare
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,784
Reaction Score
19,227
No question but that this is a thoughtful and serious piece that focuses on several important facts about the Sandusky matter that were insufficiently reported while some less substantive but more sensational elements of this story were stressed, even emblazoned on headlines or story lead-ins. All to the detriment of accuracy, objectivity and fairness.

Now I will nitpick. The author engages -- inadvertently, to be sure -- in a common form of stereotyping. Throughout his article, he makes reference to "the media" as if all news outlets comprise a monolithic lock-step mentality as they present their version of the news.

Not so fast.

Newspapers are a news medium. They are not all alike (contrast the NY Times with the NY Post). Fox News is a television news medium. So is MSNBC. Anyone see the similarity between O'Reilly and O'Donnell?

I could go on, but my point is that "media" is a plural noun (preferable to "mediums"), representing the disparate and diversified news outlets in print or available electronically. Placement of the unnecessary article "the" before "media" lumps them all together in a stereotypical manner.

Perhaps I am quixotic about this, but if this author is so hell-bent on fair and accurate (commentary about) reporting, he would use specifying phrases like "almost all news outlets failed to adequately or accurately report the facts about that 1998 report." Or, "The only news outlet that I know of to present accurate and balanced discussions about the Sandusky matter was 'All Things Considered' on NPR. Others consistently over-sensationalized this story."

I persist. It's media, plural, not the media, singular.

Mark Twain: "The difference betweeen the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug."

Sadly, Kib, the media is becoming monolith and has largely forsaken journalistic standards in the necessity to produce profitability. News departments were once separate loss leaders in media corporations but today they are almost all under the entertainment divisions. As Will Rogers once said, "The news ain't what it used to be."
 

JS

Moderator
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
2,001
Reaction Score
9,695
Hey JS, am I allowed to have my own opinion?
Since when does disagreeing with your opinion amount to an assertion that you aren't allowed to hold it?

It is my belief that the vast majority of the public, and the CFB community, has no sympathy for Penn St. As such, they would view any attempt by PSU to push back/resist its punishment/negotiate better terms _extremely negatively_. And, in my opinion, that would only make things worse. Far worse. Hell hath no fury like abysmal PR.

I don't consider any pushback to be evidence of "idiots who still don't get it," whether in the eyes of the whole country, or the vast majority, as you've alternately characterized it. The university has a right to stick up for itself. Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous, but I get the impression you view any pushback at all extremely negatively and perhaps project that view to the entire populace.

Yet despite Erickson's denial of a particular NCAA starting position, Penn State apparently did push back and did_get_better_terms (are the underscorings meant to suggest you're addressing one of the idiots?) How hard and when and how privately or publicly to push back is a matter of judgment and the dynamics of the situation. If we're speaking of further pushing back now by the dissident trustees, I've said that IMO they shouldn't do that for several reasons. I suppose we agree on that, though bad PR wasn't on my list.

The prez calculated that he needed to get this done and resolved ASAP. I agree.

So do I. But I wouldn't characterize ruffled feathers among the trustees he went around to be "laughable" -- on account of their presumed state of iniquity or something. That entirely depends on whether they've laughably failed to understand the authority the prez says he has. They'll have to work that out.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Messages
2,718
Reaction Score
7,094
I can't imagine that the BoT would have helped Penn State if they had a say in developing and approving the deal. It would have ended up in a hopeless quagmire of differing opinions and no decision. Kind of like sending it to Congress.
 

Kibitzer

Sky Soldier
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
5,676
Reaction Score
24,714
Silas Redd is a top-rated recruit (running back) who originally committed to Pen State. Yesterday he met with Lane Kiffin, USC Coach (formerly of Tennessee and the Oakland Raiders), one of many who want to persuade Redd to de-commit from PSU and play for their team.

Today Fox Sports in LA reported that he has committed to USC. Later today, The (Norwalk) Hour posted breaking news on line that "a source close to Redd" said he had done no such thing. (I believe that source is Silas's dad.)

One thing is for sure. At least one news medium got it wrong and another news medium may have got it right. HA-RUMPH!
 

diggerfoot

Humanity Hiker
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,608
Reaction Score
9,114
No question but that this is a thoughtful and serious piece that focuses on several important facts about the Sandusky matter that were insufficiently reported while some less substantive but more sensational elements of this story were stressed, even emblazoned on headlines or story lead-ins. All to the detriment of accuracy, objectivity and fairness.

Now I will nitpick. The author engages -- inadvertently, to be sure -- in a common form of stereotyping. Throughout his article, he makes reference to "the media" as if all news outlets comprise a monolithic lock-step mentality as they present their version of the news.

Not so fast.

Newspapers are a news medium. They are not all alike (contrast the NY Times with the NY Post). Fox News is a television news medium. So is MSNBC. Anyone see the similarity between O'Reilly and O'Donnell?

I could go on, but my point is that "media" is a plural noun (preferable to "mediums"), representing the disparate and diversified news outlets in print or available electronically. Placement of the unnecessary article "the" before "media" lumps them all together in a stereotypical manner.

Perhaps I am quixotic about this, but if this author is so hell-bent on fair and accurate (commentary about) reporting, he would use specifying phrases like "almost all news outlets failed to adequately or accurately report the facts about that 1998 report." Or, "The only news outlet that I know of to present accurate and balanced discussions about the Sandusky matter was 'All Things Considered' on NPR. Others consistently over-sensationalized this story."

I persist. It's media, plural, not the media, singular.

Mark Twain: "The difference betweeen the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug."

In important ways corporate media are more alike than different. Here is some evidence:

In the first months of the Iraq War a news story broke, uniformly carried by corporate media here, that there likely were chemical weapons in 55 gallon fertilizer drums found. Within hours the Israeli newspaper Haaretz debunked the story. What was in those fertilizer drums was .... fertilizer! Fox and MSNBC differed in that it took weeks for MSNBC to discover what Haaretz new immediately and retract; Fox just let the story die out without retraction (that I'm aware of). I might add that, unlike us, Israel can't afford to be misinformed about such details. An American might make hay out of the difference between the two corporate media outlets in this instance, but if you take a broader view they are more similar than different.

Colin Powell's son Michael Powell was head of the FCC at the time of this next example. They were going to impose more regulations that disadvantaged smaller media outlets (I believe the issue centered around bandwidth but I'd have to go back to my notes). The regulations drew criticism from conservatives and liberals alike, but not from corporate media. Powell was pressured into holding a public feedback phase; when over a hundred thousand emails critiquing the regulation came in he deemed this unproductive. In this and other tactics Powell/FCC were actually comical, but not even the Daily Show reported on this issue. After all, Viacom was one of the media corporations (PBS among them) wining and dining Powell and FCC members on "business trips" to Nevada and Scotland.

In fairness, perhaps I should no longer be commenting on this since after my research concluded (about 5 years ago) I don't watch any of it. Admittedly, I'm familiar with O'Reilly, not with O'Donnell. If O'Donnell (is his first name Chris?) is a news talk host like O'Reilly (or Maher) I bet he uses the same tools of the trade: he fosters vanity, apprehension and cynicism among his listeners with a dogmatic approach to the content he is promoting ... and issues such as the FCC or the impacts of various types of consolidation on a society are hardly touched.

Sigh. There I go again. Please forgive me, I can't help myself.
 

Kibitzer

Sky Soldier
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
5,676
Reaction Score
24,714
It's not Chris O'Donnell, it's Lawrence O'D, champion of the "beat-that-dead-horse-some-more-just-to-be-sure" school of news analysis. You may have had him confused with Chris (practitioner of the "never let a guest complete a sentence" interview technique) Matthews. O'Reilly is old Pompous Bill.

I like three ladies, each of whom can keep a discussion alive and informative on an astonishing array of subjects: Erin Burnett (CNN), Tamron Hall and (Rhodes Scholar and Dr.) Rachel Maddow (MSNBC).

They are all attractive. Maybe that's it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
286
Guests online
1,987
Total visitors
2,273

Forum statistics

Threads
159,864
Messages
4,208,299
Members
10,076
Latest member
Mpjd2024


.
Top Bottom