Papelbon to the Phillies

[dsturdy5]

LINK

 

[bpo57]

LINK

Big loss for the Sox. I hope they sign a suitable replacement. Funny, bostondirtdogs.com has been clamoring for Bard to take the closer's role from pap for a couple of years now. But Bard has some Joe Nathan in him, just missing the cigarette and the blindfold. Pap came right at you full tilt, not interested in nibbling. You might get him from time to time but most of the time he got you.

 

[zyron]

I am so happy I don't have to look at that retard glare he does 18 games a year.

 

[speedoo]

I am so happy I don't have to look at that retard glare he does 18 games a year.

Oh yeah! I knew there was a big plus in this. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[Danzz]

Big loss for the Sox. I hope they sign a suitable replacement. Funny, bostondirtdogs.com has been clamoring for Bard to take the closer's role from pap for a couple of years now. But Bard has some Joe Nathan in him, just missing the cigarette and the blindfold. Pap came right at you full tilt, not interested in nibbling. You might get him from time to time but most of the time he got you.

Huge loss, the Sox are significantly weaker. He was the one player that was a must sign along with a starting pitcher and a RH hitting outfielder. Ortiz will also be gone if there are any takers.
Cherington has a lot of work to do. He better find a closer somehow because Bard isn't ready and also find a way to replace 100 RBIs in the middle of the lineup.
The Sox also have issues at 3B. Youk is having surgery and may not be able to handle playing 3B everyday. I'd love to see the Sox move him and make a run at Longoria. At this point the Sox are a lot weaker than the team that finished third in the AL East.

 

[NHUConnfan]

From all accounts through Boston media, Cherington didn't really want Papelbon back. The Sox never made an offer and the comments after the signing was official from Cherington basically says that Papelbon was not worth the money he was going to get.

I imagine this is only the first of a few changes. Despite how good Papelbon was last year, his WAR and WPA were not very high the past two years and definitely not worth the price tag that the Phillies had to pay.

Yeah, the Sox are weaker, but this is only one of a few changes that are going to happen soon. The Sox missed the playoffs two years in a row (partially because of Pap) - there are going to be widespread changes. I wouldn't be surprised if Youk is next.

 

[sinkhole]

Huge loss, the Sox are significantly weaker. He was the one player that was a must sign along with a starting pitcher and a RH hitting outfielder. Ortiz will also be gone if there are any takers.
Cherington has a lot of work to do. He better find a closer somehow because Bard isn't ready and also find a way to replace 100 RBIs in the middle of the lineup.
The Sox also have issues at 3B. Youk is having surgery and may not be able to handle playing 3B everyday. I'd love to see the Sox move him and make a run at Longoria. At this point the Sox are a lot weaker than the team that finished third in the AL East.

Make a run at Longoria? Classic.

 

[NHUConnfan]

Make a run at Longoria? Classic.

FWIW, as a Sox fan, I want nothing of Longoria. Apparently Danzz hasn't been following the Sox farm to know that the Sox have an MLB-ready top prospect with significant power at 3B in Will Middlebrooks.

 

[Danzz]

Make a run at Longoria? Classic.

Classic? Longoria is a free agent and TB has a history of not paying its stars. There is a good chance he won't be back in TB next season.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Longoria is a FA? I don't believe that this is true.

 

[sinkhole]

Shortly after Longoria came up as a rookie in 2008 GM Friedman signed him to a 6 year 17 mill deal with an additional 3 team friendly option years. It may be the best deal in baseball from the Rays POV and is one of the many reasons the Rays have the best GM in baseball. He will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Danzz]

Shortly after Longoria came up as a rookie in 2008 GM Friedman signed him to a 6 year 17 mill deal with an additional 3 team friendly option years. It may be the best deal in baseball from the Rays POV and is one of the many reasons the Rays have the best GM in baseball. He will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

Don't know where i got my bad info but it sounds like a smart move by the Rays. The Rays do a great job with budget challanges and a shakey fan base. Madden is outstanding.

 

[60'sfan]

I think it's time for the Sox to start using some of their farm system. Longoria is a great player but I would rather see them give Middlebrooks a shot if Youk can't cut it. I think they should also let Kalish and Reddick have a shot at right field before they go looking outside. While I'm on a roll here, I think they should sign Varitek as a coach (if they can) and let Lavarnway back up Salty. However, I would be concerned about throwing Bard or Bobby Jenks in the closer role.

 

[Deadrody]

FWIW, as a Sox fan, I want nothing of Longoria. Apparently Danzz hasn't been following the Sox farm to know that the Sox have an MLB-ready top prospect with significant power at 3B in Will Middlebrooks.

MLB ready ? He was a middle of the pack prospect that played primarily in AA in 2011. AND he was even a touch old for that level. He is not in the picture for the Sox in 2012, not by a long shot. He'll spend a full year in AAA - where he was overmatched in a brief stint there this season - and then maybe he would be ready for the next level in 2013.

 

[Deadrody]

I think it's time for the Sox to start using some of their farm system. Longoria is a great player but I would rather see them give Middlebrooks a shot if Youk can't cut it. I think they should also let Kalish and Reddick have a shot at right field before they go looking outside. While I'm on a roll here, I think they should sign Varitek as a coach (if they can) and let Lavarnway back up Salty. However, I would be concerned about throwing Bard or Bobby Jenks in the closer role.

I think Bard could do fine as a one inning closer. The problem is, who pitches in front of Bard ? Already Bard showed you couldn't lean heavily on him in that role and no way are they going to find someone better for that role. That is the bigger hole, IMO.

 

[NHUConnfan]

MLB ready ? He was a middle of the pack prospect that played primarily in AA in 2011. AND he was even a touch old for that level. He is not in the picture for the Sox in 2012, not by a long shot. He'll spend a full year in AAA - where he was overmatched in a brief stint there this season - and then maybe he would be ready for the next level in 2013.

Everything I've read says that he's ready for the MLB now if the Sox needed a 3B. He will likely spend the year at AAA, I agree. But I would not be surprised if the Sox play around with the idea of trading Youk this winter or next trade deadline.

As far as middle of the pack prospect - he's far from it now. He has plus offensive numbers, especially concerning power. He's a top-tier prospect now.

 

[zyron]

As far as middle of the pack prospect - he's far from it now. He has plus offensive numbers, especially concerning power. He's a top-tier prospect now.

According to who? He has played 100 games above single A and he is 23. He is not even listed as a top 100 prospect yet.

 

[Danzz]

Everything I've read says that he's ready for the MLB now if the Sox needed a 3B. He will likely spend the year at AAA, I agree. But I would not be surprised if the Sox play around with the idea of trading Youk this winter or next trade deadline.

As far as middle of the pack prospect - he's far from it now. He has plus offensive numbers, especially concerning power. He's a top-tier prospect now.

Hindsight would have been to dump Youk and sign Beltrie but that ship has sailed.I have to think that we would have seen more of Middlebrooks last season in Boston if he was near to being ready. We may see a lot of Lowry at 3B and Scutaro at SS if Youk has injury problems. Take Ortiz out of the lineup and the Sox are severely weakened to the point where teams can pitch around Gonzalez. Cherington has a lot of work to do.
On the bright side, I expect a good year out of Crawford.

 

[NHUConnfan]

According to who? He has played 100 games above single A and he is 23. He is not even listed as a top 100 prospect yet.

He will be when the 2012 lists come out. Sadly, it is amazing how lists can outdate themselves so quickly.

 

[zyron]

He will be when the 2012 lists come out. Sadly, it is amazing how lists can outdate themselves so quickly.

I don't know what you are basing this on. He walked 26 times with 114 strikeouts. He was absolutely horrible at AAA and his defense looks bad too. I would be shocked if he is a top 100 player when the new rankings come out.

 

[Waquoit]

I just thought of a great idea. Perhaps the Sox can use Bard, Jenks and Aceves in the role depending on the circumstances. Sort of a closer by committee, if you will.

 

[NHUConnfan]

I really think Jenks should just go back to being the closer really. Let's be honest, he can't do anything else. He's not a setup guy. Bard is eventually going into the starting rotation. Not this year, but probably 2013.

 

[NHUConnfan]

I don't know what you are basing this on. He walked 26 times with 114 strikeouts. He was absolutely horrible at AAA and his defense looks bad too. I would be shocked if he is a top 100 player when the new rankings come out.

1. Will Middlebrooks (23 years old)
3B, Triple-A Pawtucket/Double-A Portland/Short-Season Lowell (rehab)
How acquired: Drafted in the 5th round, 2007. $925,000 bonus.
2011 Stats: .285/.328/.506 with 23 home runs.
Scouting Report: Middlebrooks is a solid all-around athlete with an ideal third-baseman’s frame. He has packed on a lot of muscle since signing in August 2007, but has managed to maintain above-average athleticism. On offense, he has plus bat speed with a nice upward plane through the strike zone, and he hits the ball hard with backspin when he squares it up. With improving bat control and pitch recognition, Middlebrooks projects to have plus power to all fields at the major-league level. However, he’s an aggressive hitter who will need to learn to be a bit more selective at Triple-A before making the jump to the big leagues. He also tends to over-extend his arms during his swing, which causes him to be susceptible on the inner third of the zone. He will need to refine his approach with inside pitches to produce more consistent contact and reduce the strikeouts. He also has the tendency to over-pull the ball during extended stretches, and has proven to be at his best when he’s using the whole field. Defensively, Middlebrooks is rounding toward becoming a plus overall defender. He has a plus-to-elite arm, as he was a highly-regarded pitcher in high school. He’s light on his feet defensively with strong anticipation, reaction, and first step skills. He shows solid footwork and typically stays square to the ball. He could stand to improve range to his left by stabbing less at the ball and taking another step or continuing to become comfortable throwing on the move. Overall, he’s a hard worker who has shown an exemplary ability to make adjustments each season.
Projection: Long-term above-average starter at third base
Ceiling: Perennial All-Star, middle-of-the-order bat

 

[Deadrody]

For the record, from 2006-2011, the WAR leaders for relievers goes as follows:

Papelbon - 14.7
Rivera - 13.9
Thornton - 10.2
Putz - 9.7
K-Rod - 9.5
Nathan - 9.3

By every measure there is, he was one of the top 3 or 4 closers in the game and by Fangraphs metric, it would cost 10+ million to replace that production via free agency. Kinda foolish, IMO, to let him walk over a relatively puny sum of money. But then, the Sox have a "gritty underdog" reputation to restore.

 

[Deadrody]

Everything I've read says that he's ready for the MLB now if the Sox needed a 3B. He will likely spend the year at AAA, I agree. But I would not be surprised if the Sox play around with the idea of trading Youk this winter or next trade deadline.

As far as middle of the pack prospect - he's far from it now. He has plus offensive numbers, especially concerning power. He's a top-tier prospect now.

First of all, if he was "major league ready", he wouldn't have played primarily in AA. The minor league system is tiered for a reason. A realistic comparison in the Yankees system is Brandon Laird. Yeah, he could probably hold down third base, but he is a middle of the pack prospect. And by that you automatically exclude all the 85% "system players" that aren't prospects in the first place.

I'm not sure who you think is going to trade for Youklis. Definitely would have to be a team with an opening at first, but then you are talking about a guy making $12 million, who hasn't played more than 136 games in three years, who is on the wrong side of 30. I'm not sure I see, again, the wisdom in what would end up being a give away for the purposes of opening a whole at third for a kid that just finished AA. Now, I do see the need to get healthy at that position, but other than that, is Youklis even one of the problems on that team ? As it is, only 4 guys in the lineup were more valuable, and he only played 100 games.