Paige will make greatest come back in women's basketball

[Bone Dog]

Winning NCs has no impact on NPOY awards.

Never said it did. RIF

 

[Bone Dog]

I never understand how folks can make these types of absolute statements absent any fact base. Without facts, at least state it’s an opinion to which we are all entitled

Everything here is opinion. This is a fan forum. Were you somehow under the impression that we post here as journalists?

 

[donalddoowop]

Caitlin is great but she did not take her team any farther than Paige took UConn. Paige took UConn twice to the Final and Clark took her team once. They are both great players in the true sense of the word.

 

[SEbluebood]

Everything here is opinion. This is a fan forum. Were you somehow under the impression that we post here as journalists?

No, I am under the impression that many folks use facts when it suits them, ignore them when it doesn’t and present opinions as facts. I find two of those three behaviors to be irksome, even on a fan forum. I guess that is just the price to pay for participating, but it doesn’t mean I can’t call out the inconsistencies as part of my posts! Isn’t it the differing perspectives that make the BY interesting? Not sure how interesting it would be if we were all just a bunch of cheerleaders posting that UCONN and all its players are without peers!

 

[Bone Dog]

No, I am under the impression that many folks use facts when it suits them, ignore them when it doesn’t and present opinions as facts. I find two of those three behaviors to be irksome, even on a fan forum. I guess that is just the price to pay for participating, but it doesn’t mean I can’t call out the inconsistencies as part of my posts! Isn’t it the differing perspectives that make the BY interesting? Not sure how interesting it would be if we were all just a bunch of cheerleaders posting that UCONN and all its players are without peers!

Fair enough. And I’m sure I did none of the things you decry here. It’s fair to expect some reasonable standard, but it’s also essential to read generously. Sacrifice generosity and there’s no point coming to any forum.

I said Paige knows that NCs are won by teams not stars. You thought others understood this too. I never denied it. But I do think Paige understands it better than anyone. Why? Because I’ve watched her play and heard her interviews. It would be difficult to have followed her career and not understand this about her. Could there be a slight exaggeration in my expression? Sure. So what?

You challenged me by assuming that only someone who’s won an NC can know what it takes to win one and listed people you implied must know better than Paige. Now let’s see what ungenerous reading looks like applied to your claim. Taken absolutely, it is fallacious in two ways. First, winning an NC is comparable to winning other things. More difficult, yes, but comparable. Second, people who play on NC teams may not fully understand what their triumph really depended on. Should I fuss and say you made indefensible claims?

Personally, I’d rather read your posts generously and not hold you to the strictest logical standards. You are more impressed by other players, and I respect that. You don’t need to pretend that you’re refuting me merely in order to disagree. This is what I mean when I recommend reading generously. This is a fan forum, after all.

As Hamlet said (sort of), treat everyone as a debater and none shall ‘scape a refutation or a whipping.

 

[Bald Husky]

Paige did beat SC in her first try in 2020

 

[Skeets]

Throw all the WCBB players in a pool and lets choose up sides. My first pick Paige. My second pick, if she's still there, CC.

 

[Jokerman619]

I sure do agree. And with the amazing supporting cast. This team will accomplish great things, and I do believe that it will be more than just one year. So others beware. Full support for this uconn women's basketball.
Go Huskies.

 

[Alydar]

The last time they both played a season Bueckers was the unanimous NPOY. I think Clark scored more and assisted more but it was clear then who the better player was. Clark had a phenomenal season, actually 3 seasons, and deserves her awards , but dismissing Bueckers like you tells me you are just looking for a battle.

 

[Alydar]

The last time they both played a season Bueckers was the unanimous NPOY. I think Clark scored more and assisted more but it was clear then who the better player was. Clark had a phenomenal season, actually 3 seasons, and deserves her awards , but dismissing Bueckers like you have tells me you are just looking for a battle.

 

[Alydar]

Paige beat "mighty" SCar when she was a freshman.

 

[jabstep]

Agree with what you say, though this is only true because Paige sat out. I guess I win the Captain Obvious award for that one. Still, there's lots of reason to suspect this remark may not age all that well. Also, as always, we have to correct for the statistics fallacy. Paige was better in 20-21 even though Caitlin's stats were gaudier. The NPOY voting wasn't even close. It's too easy to forget this. If Paige takes UConn to an NC and is widely perceived to be the catalyst for it, the same result will emerge. She knows (better than anyone in the land) that NCs are won by teams, not stars.


I share most of this sentiment, except for the bolded part. There were other better purer shooters this season -- Taylor Mikesell and Hannah Jump to name two. Maybe Caitlin hit more "clutch" 3s, but I'm not sure even that is true. I would say she meant more to her team than practically any other player in D1. But once Paige returns, even this is likely not to be true. What sticks in my mind is how much Paige means to a team as well stocked as UConn is. It doesn't matter how good the lineup is. Winning without Paige is still damn hard. And because the team is so good, it's really hard to rack up gaudy stats.

I re-watched their sweet 16 matchup from two years ago, and it is like a microcosm of their entire relationship. They both struggled in the first half, and then both turn it on in the second half. They end up with almost identical stats (the main difference is a garbage time 3 from Caitlin) and UConn wins by 20. Christyn has a great game at both ends, Evina sinks 3 clutch 3s in the first half, two of them directly over Caitlin. Just to be clear about what that last fact says: Christyn shut down Caitlin, and Caitlin couldn't shut down Evina.

Don't get me wrong. I admire Caitlin as a talent, and I am glad to see her sportsmanship has improved since Freshmen year. She was the NPOY this season and deserved it. She carried her team farther than they've ever gone. She even endured taunting with grace and maturity. No one has ever had any reason to complain about Paige's sportsmanship... ever. Watch her games in HS and you see the same Paige -- kind, generous, never a showboat, even kind to opponents. This is who she was in 8th grade. I hope Caitlin attains a similar position in the game next season. It would be wonderful to see.

Bone dog I usually agree agree with you 100% but I watched a lot of Paige in HS and in one game she was in the face of one HS coach and team. Like take that when she would do amazing things on the court. She is and has been totally respectable in all aspects of social responsibility since then and is a great example to many young children,

 

[oldhusky]

No, I am under the impression that many folks use facts when it suits them, ignore them when it doesn’t and present opinions as facts. I find two of those three behaviors to be irksome, even on a fan forum. I guess that is just the price to pay for participating, but it doesn’t mean I can’t call out the inconsistencies as part of my posts! Isn’t it the differing perspectives that make the BY interesting? Not sure how interesting it would be if we were all just a bunch of cheerleaders posting that UCONN and all its players are without peers!

Couldn't help but think your first sentence was a spot on description of most politicians. In fact it is pretty much standard operating policy for most of them. As a whole I think the level of debate here is actually better and more sound and logical than you generally find in society debates over most topics.

 

[JellyBean]

I am just happy that she is able to come back and play. All of the other stuff will take care of itself.

 

[Bone Dog]

Bone dog I usually agree agree with you 100% but I watched a lot of Paige in HS and in one game she was in the face of one HS coach and team. Like take that when she would do amazing things on the court. She is and has been totally respectable in all aspects of social responsibility since then and is a great example to many young children,

I remember a game like that — perhaps it’s the same one you’re thinking of. I was under the impression there was some comical backstory to what seemed like mutual teasing. But you may be right that I’ve slightly exaggerated.

 

[Rowdy831]

Agree with what you say, though this is only true because Paige sat out. I guess I win the Captain Obvious award for that one. Still, there's lots of reason to suspect this remark may not age all that well. Also, as always, we have to correct for the statistics fallacy. Paige was better in 20-21 even though Caitlin's stats were gaudier. The NPOY voting wasn't even close. It's too easy to forget this. If Paige takes UConn to an NC and is widely perceived to be the catalyst for it, the same result will emerge. She knows (better than anyone in the land) that NCs are won by teams, not stars.


I share most of this sentiment, except for the bolded part. There were other better purer shooters this season -- Taylor Mikesell and Hannah Jump to name two. Maybe Caitlin hit more "clutch" 3s, but I'm not sure even that is true. I would say she meant more to her team than practically any other player in D1. But once Paige returns, even this is likely not to be true. What sticks in my mind is how much Paige means to a team as well stocked as UConn is. It doesn't matter how good the lineup is. Winning without Paige is still damn hard. And because the team is so good, it's really hard to rack up gaudy stats.

I re-watched their sweet 16 matchup from two years ago, and it is like a microcosm of their entire relationship. They both struggled in the first half, and then both turn it on in the second half. They end up with almost identical stats (the main difference is a garbage time 3 from Caitlin) and UConn wins by 20. Christyn has a great game at both ends, Evina sinks 3 clutch 3s in the first half, two of them directly over Caitlin. Just to be clear about what that last fact says: Christyn shut down Caitlin, and Caitlin couldn't shut down Evina.

Don't get me wrong. I admire Caitlin as a talent, and I am glad to see her sportsmanship has improved since Freshmen year. She was the NPOY this season and deserved it. She carried her team farther than they've ever gone. She even endured taunting with grace and maturity. No one has ever had any reason to complain about Paige's sportsmanship... ever. Watch her games in HS and you see the same Paige -- kind, generous, never a showboat, even kind to opponents. This is who she was in 8th grade. I hope Caitlin attains a similar position in the game next season. It would be wonderful to see.

No other player in the country has the defense thrown at her that Caitlyn had to deal with this year. She dominated when the other team basically put their whole team on her and they still couldn't slow her down. Paige is a great player but she has always played with a much better supporting cast than CC.

 

[Rowdy831]

This has turned into a Paige vs Clark discussion. In my opinion neither team would trade their player for the other. The important thing to me is which player can take their team to the final and win it and that player to me is Paige. She is as clutch as CC and will have a much better supporting cast than any other player in the country. The missing piece this year was a clutch shooter, or more specifically a shooter than know when to put the dagger in the opponent and nobody can do that like Paige.

I anticipate all the players will be back which will allow my focus to be on the development of the players who will be there the following season.

 

[Bone Dog]

No other player in the country has the defense thrown at her that Caitlyn had to deal with this year. She dominated when the other team basically put their whole team on her and they still couldn't slow her down. Paige is a great player but she has always played with a much better supporting cast than CC.

This is exactly right! Caitlin has to carry a significant load for Iowa, and it will only be larger next season. There's a different kind of pressure on Paige -- she has had to make a premier team run like a clock, and only had to step up to carry the team occasionally.

 

[Surly1]

Like discussing supposed greats in all sports from different eras, it is almost impossible to make accurate comparisons. In Paige and Caitlin's case, their teams are structured differently and the roles for each are much different. The only way to compare would be for them to switch teams/roles and see how they fare.

In the argument for who is better, Clark has the statistical metrics in her favor. Her style of play is high reward/high risk as evidenced by the number of points she scored in the last 3 games of the tourney, and the 23 turnovers in those 3 games. She is a phenom and I felt she deserved POY honors in her soph season as well.

Paige's style is graceful. On the court, she looks like she can do whatever she wants to do. That is a large part of her appeal. It is unfortunate that Paige has missed a large part of the past two seasons and people have reason to be skeptical if she can regain her freshman level of play. However, many athletes have come back, like Klay Thompson, and I have no doubts that Paige will as well.

My hope is this argument continues for at least the next decade or so. It can be added to the Bird/Magic, West/Robertson, Chamberlain/Russell, Stewart/Wilson comparisons of who is the better player.

 

[Alydar]

Come on, Bueckers won three of the NPOY awards and as a freshman wasn't eligible for the 4th. And you decide that the FOY award is more indicative than say, the Wooden Award? That says more about you than anything else.

I believe you said Clark is the better player "and it's not even close" And you say as much again above.

And for the record, I make no claims about who the best player is.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Excuse me, but Paige beat South Carolina in her freshman year, she dominated them, scoring 31 points. Head to head, in their only meeting, Paige outplayed Caitlin in the NCAA tournament game between UConn and Iowa. She did all these things while a freshman amongst three future WNBA players, Christyn Williams, Evina Westbrook and Nelson-Ododa.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I personally don't see why Paige gets punished because South Carolina didn't know how to defend the pick and roll.