Paige vs Caitlin

[Alydar]

I am commenting on the comparison, not making it. No UConn great has been measured by how many points they score, only how many Final Fours and National Championships they win.
That's the Gold standard.

I agree about championships being more important than pts/gm. I think that consistent production and clutch play in big games has as much to do with it as championships. Of the trio of Taurasi-Moore-Stewart it was Moore who had the fewest Natties but is still considered the best of the three by many UConn fans.

I love Bueckers. She's the best guard I've seen in a long time, maybe ever. But I watched Clark vs Mich and she was unconscious. Most of her misses came late in the game when the outcome wasn't in doubt. And I was surprised at her assist total. She may not be a great defender but she is more than a shooter on offense. Lots of great passes. As for her TO's, her's and Bueckers' include a lot of tries to thread a needle and others that simply weren't handled by the target. I see TO's like that less onerous than unforced errors like having the ball stripped or travelling. Pushing the envelope is one way teams improve.

 

[donalddoowop]

My only negative thought about Clark is her attitude on the court which can sometimes be negative. She gets upset when a teammate does not pass her the ball when she wants it and does not hide it, complains to the refs too often, and forces too many shots. However, she is a great shooter and good basketball player. If she had gone to ND or Tennessee, they would be in the top ten today, If the situation was reversed and she was at UConn and Paige was on another team, UConn fans would be raving about how good she is. The bottom line is, Paige and Clark are exceptional players and which ever one wins FOY will deserve it, imo. Also, Cardoso is having an outstanding season and Syracuse would be really bad without her. She should get some votes. As far as POY, I believe Dana Evans will win that.

 

[enigmatic]

Why do we need to persist with this banter of who is better? Can we just concur that the both of them are great players. Caitlin means just as much to Iowa as Paige to UCONN. Are we so worried that Caitlin might possibly win NFOY over Paige? If that happens to be the case at season's end then its deservedly so.

 

[mbr33ct]

I'm just presenting stats. The last time a thread about Caitlin and Paige was created they both played 17 and 15 games respectively (top stats and posted at that time). Here we are now another thread and now the games are up to 20 and 19.

 

[ucbart]

My assessment is this:

What a fun USA backcourt in 2028 & 2032

 

[eebmg]

My assessment is this:

What a fun USA backcourt in 2028 & 2032

Yup. Paige and Azzi.

 

[Conndog]

I’m impressed by Caitlin, quick shot, range to the parking lot- no disparity to Paige, but I think Caitlin gets the honors

 

[ScuderiaDiU]

Stats are nice but the most important stat is, who makes their team better. Paige>Caitlin

Champions > Winners > Scorers

 

[DefenseBB]

I am pretty tired of this stupid comparison. Paige's ONLY goal is to win a GAME. NOT SCORE POINTS. I am making no comment about a player I have not seen play a game. I am sure she is an excellent player, but as Uconn being ranked the number one team in the COUNTRY, any comparison has to give that all the weight.

Here's EXACTLY what you posted:
"Paige's only focus is to win games, the other player's goal is to score points. That's my judgment."
So yeah, I agree it was a stupid comparison. While we all know what UConn's goal is, stop making an inference where you have NO IDEA what another player's main goal is. As if Caitlin Clark or any other player doesn't want to win games is utterly ridiculous. Own you own comments and don't try to now be dismissive when called out on it.

As far as AP NPOY award, they do not always go to the best player on the best team. Two of the last 4 years went to Kelsey Plum and Megan Gustafson.

 

[Plebe]

Paige's only focus is to win games, the other player's goal is to score points. That's my judgment.

So, on each of Clark's 6.7 assists per game, those are really just airballs that fortuitously turn into assists?

 

[hoopsfan22]

If coaches had a choice most of them would take Paige over Caitlin. The rest are just lying.

 

[my2cents]

Here's EXACTLY what you posted:
"Paige's only focus is to win games, the other player's goal is to score points. That's my judgment."
So yeah, I agree it was a stupid comparison. While we all know what UConn's goal is, stop making an inference where you have NO IDEA what another player's main goal is. As if Caitlin Clark or any other player doesn't want to win games is utterly ridiculous. Own you own comments and don't try to now be dismissive when called out on it.

As far as AP NPOY award, they do not always go to the best player on the best team. Two of the last 4 years went to Kelsey Plum and Megan Gustafson.

19-1 to 13-7....nuff said

 

[my2cents]

So, on each of Clark's 6.7 assists per game, those are really just airballs that fortuitously turn into assists?

19-1 to 13-7 nuff said

 

[Plebe]

19-1 to 13-7 nuff said

So your "proof" that she doesn't care about winning games is the inferior win-loss record?

Logically compelling.

 

[eebmg]

19-1 to 13-7 nuff said

I predict more will be said.

 

[nwhoopfan]

19-1 to 13-7....nuff said

The rest of the UConn roster compared to the rest of the Iowa roster has absolutely no bearing in this?

 

[hoopsfan22]

The rest of the UConn roster compared to the rest of the Iowa roster has absolutely no bearing in this?

It's the old question of is the MVP the one with the best stats regardless of team, or is it the one with the best stats on one of the handful of top teams?

 

[nwhoopfan]

It's the old question of is the MVP the one with the best stats regardless of team, or is it the one with the best stats on one of the handful of top teams?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I've ever advocated for Clark being POY. I just don't think that UConn having a better record than Iowa is unshakable proof that Bueckers is better than Clark, there are way too many other factors involved. To me the tact to take is Bueckers more efficient FG shooting and significantly fewer TOs.

 

[MD#12Fan]

It's the old question of is the MVP the one with the best stats regardless of team, or is it the one with the best stats on one of the handful of top teams?

correction, IMO: it's 1) most valuable player to the player's team or 2) best player. I think it has always been #2. I believe that when you see the best player on the floor, you can recognize it. Stats just muddy the water. Once in a while it's a tough choice. Maybe this year. Couple of other factors that muddy things up: 1) is there a lifetime service award like with the Academy Awards- Kirk Douglas, Dustin Hoffman? In a close year, it goes to a senior- Dana Evans?
2) when does the vote take place? Especially in a close year, I want the vote to happen at the end of the season.
Long story short (if that's still possible)- vote for the best player!

 

[Gurleyman]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I've ever advocated for Clark being POY. I just don't think that UConn having a better record than Iowa is unshakable proof that Bueckers is better than Clark, there are way too many other factors involved. To me the tact to take is Bueckers more efficient FG shooting and significantly fewer TOs.

I think it also matters that UConn has the fifth best team defense in the country (51 ppg) and Iowa has the worst (81 ppg). They rank 336 out of 336. Those points and assists mean a little more if you aren’t turning around and giving them back on the other end.

I think from our end it’s a little weary. Bueckers has led her team to No. 1. That SC game outscoring the No. 1 team in the country 13-5 in the clutch by herself on 5-5 shooting in a 1 v 2 game was historic for anyone in those stakes, never mind a freshman. Overall, her freshman season is probably currently second behind Cheryl Miller for the most impactful in WCBB history pending the tourney (an egg there and she could slip behind Holdsclaw and others - so we will have to wait on that), based on both her personal numbers and where she‘s lifted her team (in fairness, she gets the benefit of an abbreviated schedule with less marquee games - we might be having a different discussion if they lost to Louisville and/or Baylor). But it feels like her accomplishments are being diminished by the constant comparisons to a kid in 7th place in her league, even if that kid is having a tremendous year in her own right.

That said, I’m convinced Bueckers doesn’t care one whit about any of this and just wants to help the team win in March any way she can. The proof of that is she only shoots 10 times a game against the weak teams in the BE, when she easily could be trying to light them up for her personal resume. She hears about Clark’s big scoring games, and her next time out, her coach jokes that he needs to talk to her union rep to get her to shoot. So i guess if she doesn’t care, we probably shouldn‘t either.

 

[triaddukefan]

 

[MD#12Fan]

I think it also matters that UConn has the fifth best team defense in the country (51 ppg) and Iowa has the worst (81 ppg). They rank 336 out of 336. Those points and assists mean a little more if you aren’t turning around and giving them back on the other end.

I think from our end it’s a little weary. Bueckers has led her team to No. 1. That SC game outscoring the No. 1 team in the country 13-5 in the clutch by herself on 5-5 shooting in a 1 v 2 game was historic for anyone in those stakes, never mind a freshman. Overall, her freshman season is probably currently second behind Cheryl Miller for the most impactful in WCBB history pending the tourney (an egg there and she could slip behind Holdsclaw and others - so we will have to wait on that), based on both her personal numbers and where she‘s lifted her team (in fairness, she gets the benefit of an abbreviated schedule with less marquee games - we might be having a different discussion if they lost to Louisville and/or Baylor). But it feels like her accomplishments are being diminished by the constant comparisons to a kid in 7th place in her league, even if that kid is having a tremendous year in her own right.

That said, I’m convinced Bueckers doesn’t care one whit about any of this and just wants to help the team win in March any way she can. The proof of that is she only shoots 10 times a game against the weak teams in the BE, when she easily could be trying to light them up for her personal resume. She hears about Clark’s big scoring games, and her next time out, her coach jokes that he needs to talk to her union rep to get her to shoot. So i guess if she doesn’t care, we probably shouldn‘t either.

Nice Post! Very thorough coverage of the topic IMO.
I see Paige, like you alluded, concerned with important things, like the team. She is that rare player that has the ability to hugely affect the team with her floor generalship. I see her as being unaffected by any chatter. I'm a teacher and occasionally you meet kids that are unaffected by others. It doesn't mean they are aloof or distant but they just don't pay attention to chatter and they are not self-conscious at all. I see her as a natural. IMO she is "working" on important things right now, which is the confidence of her teammates, the team's transition game, and the motion offense. Getting 30 on Butler isn't that. If Holdsclaw needs to move up on somebody's senseless list that doesn't mean anything, who cares. This is advanced stuff! BTW nice Cheryl Miller reference!

 

[Plebe]

View attachment 65053

The dead horse beatings will continue until morale improves.