Paige Bueckers only freshman on Wooden Award top 15 | The Boneyard

Paige Bueckers only freshman on Wooden Award top 15

Am I correct in remembering that all these awards will be decided BEFORE the NCAA tournament begins?
 
Aluminny69 said:
Am I correct in remembering that all these awards will be decided BEFORE the NCAA tournament begins?
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They vote on them at the end of the regular season and announce them before the Final Four. But the regular season is still going in a couple leagues, so they can’t vote yet ... and the voters will be aware of what happens in the conference tourneys, so it could have a subconscious or even a conscious effect on what they decide.
 
JordyG said:
A mockery that Caitlin Clarke isn't on this list. It's absurd. That kid is a playa. Period.
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And at the other end of things, there is no way Jones still belongs on the list given how she's performed since about mid-season. And, despite being a Pac 12 homer, I don't find any of the other Pac 12 players all that convincing either.
 
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Been watching some clips of Caitlin last few days. She reminds me of Pete Maravich: bringing the ball up, everyone knowing she is going to take the shot and boom, she throw in a bomb from NBA+ range. She certainly has not hit the Freshman wall as she has been tremendous her last 10 games or so. A lot of fun to watch play.
 
Caitlin does not have the same pressure as Paige. Iowa is not going to win the NC, despite her prolific scoring numbers. 14-8 is very good but not great.
 
dtbtbtb said:
Clark is having a better season then at least half of the players on this list. And should be at minimum second team AA.
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No question Clark has phenomenal stats, but a great season only happens if you help your team win. Most players on this list, if they were the complete focus of the offense, would have great offensive stats. As it is they all make good teams better. Offensive stats can’t be the be all and end all. There’s got to be more to being player of the year.
 
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chrissaran said:
Caitlin does not have the same pressure as Paige. Iowa is not going to win the NC, despite her prolific scoring numbers. 14-8 is very good but not great.
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This isn't a team award but an individual award. Besides, without Clarke that team would be 2-20, not 14-8. Paige is a great player, no doubt. But if people could just put down their blinders and prejudices, and realize there are a lot of other great young players out there maybe WCBB wouldn't be such a niche sport
 
JordyG said:
This isn't a team award but an individual award. Besides, without Clarke that team would be 2-20, not 14-8.
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It’s both. Nobody has ever won the Naismith (didn’t check the Wooden history) for a team ranked lower than No. 12, and that was Kelsey Plum the year she broke the scoring record and averaged 31.5 ppg. Cheryl Miller was the only other one outside the top 10 (No. 11) in 1985 when she repeated. You have to contribute to team success to be a serious candidate.

But that doesn’t mean she can’t make the list of finalists. If Collier is on this list, then Clark absolutely should be since they are in pretty much identical situations (big numbers on middle of the pack teams) ... only Clark has showed up in big games and Collier hasn’t.
 
chrissaran said:
Caitlin does not have the same pressure as Paige. Iowa is not going to win the NC, despite her prolific scoring numbers. 14-8 is very good but not great.
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How much pressure is Paige really under? Almost every conference game UConn plays, there is zero chance of them losing.
 
chrissaran said:
Caitlin does not have the same pressure as Paige. Iowa is not going to win the NC, despite her prolific scoring numbers. 14-8 is very good but not great.
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Totally disagree. Caitlan is leading a nobody team, in a difficult conference, trying to get them an NCAA tournament spot. Almost every game is tough and important to achieve that goal. Have her switch places with Paige and the results for both teams would be the same and you would be raving about her vs Paige. Paige is leading HS All-Americans, US national team players and prospects against mostly non-competitive teams.
 
Gurleyman said:
It’s both. Nobody has ever won the Naismith (didn’t check the Wooden history) for a team ranked lower than No. 12, and that was Kelsey Plum the year she broke the scoring record and averaged 31.5 ppg. Cheryl Miller was the only other one outside the top 10 (No. 11) in 1985 when she repeated. You have to contribute to team success to be a serious candidate.

But that doesn’t mean she can’t make the list of finalists. If Collier is on this list, then Clark absolutely should be since they are in pretty much identical situations (big numbers on middle of the pack teams) ... only Clark has showed up in big games and Collier hasn’t.
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If it were both a team and an individual award it would be awarded to the best player on the best team every year. Generally very good teams get the most eyes on every year so it's natural to assume the winner would come from one of these. However, just as an example, the Wooden Award winner in 2005 was Andrew Bogut who only played college for two years. That year his team lost in the Sweet Sixteen.
 
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chrissaran said:
Aliyah Boston and Charli Collier should not be on the list, while Caitlin Clark is not.
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Don’t agree. Boston is as impactful in games as any player in the SEC.

I’m not as high on Collier, but her stats might be the reason she’s on this list.

Agree Clark should be there, of course. I’d take off one (or all!) of the PAC-12 players to include her.
 
nwhoopfan said:
How much pressure is Paige really under? Almost every conference game UConn plays, there is zero chance of them losing.
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Hogwash. Here I completely disagree. I think you should re-think that statement. If you don't think walking into Storrs and seeing those banners, then knowing you have to live up to those players, many of which are your idols isn't difficult; if you don't think the expectancy to win every game and a championship every year, including your first year isn't crushing; if you don't think the highly demanding coach you play for, a coach that never lets up, makes for the easiest of college basketball experiences; if you don't think fan pressure from everyone from the BY through all social media (including your closest friends) can't be mind numbingly difficult, especially when everyone expects you to win every game by 30 points and for you to score 20 points while getting umpteen assists; if you don't think the constant comparisons to the best players to ever play the game isn't frightening; if you think all of these things combined with high playing time minutes in your first year doesn't dwarf any pressure Clarke feels then I don't know what to say. Clarke went to Iowa. What pressure is there on her to win? Their playing with house money. Making the Dance, making the Sweet Sixteen is more than that college could hope for this year; a team that has never advanced beyond the E8. Making the E8 with Clarke in any of her 4 years is a dream for this meagerly talented team. Tell me with a straight face that Iowa expects to win a chip at any time Clarke is there. Why do you think so many decline to come to Storrs, even though there is a near guarantee that you'll win at least one chip?
 
JordyG said:
A mockery that Caitlin Clarke isn't on this list. It's absurd. That kid is a playa. Period.
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The award criteria clearly states that the ”candidate must excel on offense and defense”. I would argue she isn’t there because of her defense. She is also 5th in the nation in turnovers per game (over 5 a game). It’s not all about offense. Every other player on that list plays on both ends of the court.
 
JordyG said:
If it were both a team and an individual award it would be awarded to the best player on the best team every year. Generally very good teams get the most eyes on every year so it's natural to assume the winner would come from one of these. However, just as an example, the Wooden Award winner in 2005 was Andrew Bogut who only played college for two years. That year his team lost in the Sweet Sixteen.
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My point is that historically you have to have quantifiable team success to be a women’s NPOY. It doesn’t mean No. 1. You can have a dominant year within the top 10 and beat out players from higher ranked teams that maybe have more balance, but you usually need to be a 1 seed or a 2 seed in the NCAA to win it - or break the NCAA scoring record for a 3 seed (or be Cheryl Miller).

If you are head and shoulders the best player on the No. 1 team, you do have a big leg up. I had to go back to 1984 to find someone averaging ~20 ppg (or more) for the No. 1 team who didn’t win one of the NPOY awards. I’m not counting when KLS/Collier both averaged 20 during Kelsey Plum’s year, which is unusual circumstances since the No. 1 team really had co-best players (and the winner averaged 30). There were some splits some of those years. Alana Beard (19.7 ppg for No. 1 Duke) split some of the awards with Taurasi in 2004 (UConn ended No. 6) and Stephanie White of No. 1 Purdue split some with Holdsclaw of No. 2 Tennessee (a repeat winner) in 1999. But this is the first time that sort of “top player on No. 1” has been a freshman, so that trend may not hold (two weeks ago I might have grumbled, but Paige didn’t close strong, so it is what it is).

The men’s game is a little different with early entries and its hard to compare across sports and across voting committees. Carmelo would have been a junior in 2005, LeBron would have been a sophomore, and Dwight Howard a freshman. The tournament also doesn’t matter since they vote before it gets started (they announce them around the FF, but vote two weeks prior).
 
Gurleyman said:
It’s both. Nobody has ever won the Naismith (didn’t check the Wooden history) for a team ranked lower than No. 12, and that was Kelsey Plum the year she broke the scoring record and averaged 31.5 ppg. Cheryl Miller was the only other one outside the top 10 (No. 11) in 1985 when she repeated. You have to contribute to team success to be a serious candidate.

But that doesn’t mean she can’t make the list of finalists. If Collier is on this list, then Clark absolutely should be since they are in pretty much identical situations (big numbers on middle of the pack teams) ... only Clark has showed up in big games and Collier hasn’t.
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Agree, Collier should not be on the list. There are lots of great players, but the players most worthy of acclaim don’t always have the gaudiest stats. For example, not one of the top 7 scorers in the SEC got their team into the semi-finals.
 
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JordyG said:
This isn't a team award but an individual award. Besides, without Clarke that team would be 2-20, not 14-8. Paige is a great player, no doubt. But if people could just put down their blinders and prejudices, and realize there are a lot of other great young players out there maybe WCBB wouldn't be such a niche sport
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I just checked Iowa 2019-2020 season record. 23-7, not good but still not bad compared with this year.
 
Childhood said:
I just checked Iowa 2019-2020 season record. 23-7, not good but still not bad compared with this year.
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Lost their 2 best players from last year. This is a young team and quite different than last season. Doyle was a stud. Czanino is the only significant contributor returning from that team.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Lost their 2 best players from last year. This is a young team and quite different than last season. Doyle was a stud. Czanino is the only significant contributor returning from that team.
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Clark really played well I just watched the game. And Iowa is such a good offensive team.
 
Childhood said:
Clark really played well I just watched the game. And Iowa is such a good offensive team.
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Another 30+ game. She's been almost automatic down the stretch. You gotta give her credit, she's upping her scoring average while significantly improving her FG% late in the season, at a time of the year many players are showing signs of fatigue or nagging injuries.
 
Paige is under immense pressure to deliver championship number 12. What's the difference between 2-20 and 14-8? No matter what Caitlin does, Iowa is not going to win the championship. The same can't be said about Paige. What she does matters a great deal as to whether UConn can win their next championship.
 
chrissaran said:
Caitlin does not have the same pressure as Paige. Iowa is not going to win the NC, despite her prolific scoring numbers. 14-8 is very good but not great.
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I agree. Caitlin is a great scorer, but that's about it. Assists come easy for a player who is literally the only scoring option. Most teams will let her score so long as they win the game. I believe that in order to be a great player, you have to learn how to play with other great players.
 
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