Pac-12 shakeup: WSU takes out UCLA

[Plebe]

Washington State got red-hot in the 2nd half, and took advantage of cold shooting by UCLA.

Wazzu has gotta be hands-down the best team in the country with a losing record (7-8). Back in November, they were tied with Maryland with less than 5 minutes to play on a neutral court. Since then they lost their top two scorers to injury (I'm not sure for how long), and they've lost a bunch of close games to a strong schedule, including two in overtime. But they played Kentucky down to the wire in Lexington, and they stayed close with Oregon State in Corvallis until the 4th quarter.

Today, hosting UCLA, they get their breakthrough win. WSU's freshman point guard, Chanelle Molina, had a breakout performance with 33 points and 7 assists. This is yet another Pac-12 team to watch.

Highlights: Washington State women's basketball's Chanelle Molina leads Cougs to upset win over No. 7 UCLA

 

[triaddukefan]

 

[triaddukefan]

Maybe they were looking ahead to their matchup Sunday vs Washington ESPN2 5pm EST. Looking at their schedule... their best win is vs Michigan. I guess maybe Colorado and Utah are good wins.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Maybe they were looking ahead to their matchup Sunday vs Washington ESPN2 5pm EST. Looking at their schedule... their best win is vs Michigan. I guess maybe Colorado and Utah are good wins.

Huh? Along with my Wildcats, Utah and Colorado are not so good, although Colorado beat AZ today. Utah was handled by Arizona State with ease.

I'll believe Wazzou going forward. Not sure if they can be consistent.

 

[triaddukefan]

Huh? Along with my Wildcats, Utah and Colorado are not so good, although Colorado beat AZ today. Utah was handled by Arizona State with ease.

I'll believe Wazzou going forward. Not sure if they can be consistent.

Well I was going by the fact that Colorado was ranked like #15 a few weeks ago

 

[Plebe]

Maybe they were looking ahead to their matchup Sunday vs Washington ESPN2 5pm EST. Looking at their schedule... their best win is vs Michigan. I guess maybe Colorado and Utah are good wins.

Yeah, UCLA's nonconference schedule didn't do them many favors. They had two losses against top-5 opponents, both on the road (and yes, I do consider South Carolina to be a top-5 team). They won the rest of their games against not-so-great opponents (Michigan being the best of them).

 

[triaddukefan]

Well then... UCLA is overrated

 

[BigBird]

Hey, I hope all those who were desperate for parity in WCBB takes note.

"Ya got yer damn parity, now shut up!"

 

[Plebe]

Huh? Along with my Wildcats, Utah and Colorado are not so good, although Colorado beat AZ today. Utah was handled by Arizona State with ease.

I'll believe Wazzou going forward. Not sure if they can be consistent.

Arizona is actually the only Pac-12 team for which an at-large bid appears out of the question, barring a stunning turnaround:

 

[oldude]

One of the things that struck me about UCLA is the fast pace they try to play at. They push the ball up the court on every occasion. The shot clock is never a factor. Sometimes that's good because their opponent can't set up their defense, but sometimes they force up quick shots when they should slow it down and work for a better shot, like the 2nd half vs WSU.

 

[UcMiami]

Pac12 is going to be really interesting because we really didn't get much of a handle on the teams in OOC - the ones that played tougher schedules didn't have any good wins though they had 'good' losses, and the rest played very mediocre competition. It appears that they have a pretty balanced conference with a long middle, but the top end is pretty short and a little suspect. From the bottom:

Arizona played no one and still lost to KU, and have gotten off to an 0-3 start IC
Oregon lost to Miss State and beat a suspect MSU and are off to an 0-3 start
USC lost to Miss State and beat a suspect TAMU and are off to a 1-2 start
Colorado played no one and still lost to WYO and are off to a 1-2 start
Utah played no one and was undefeated and are now off to a 1-2 start
Cal beat a somewhat suspect OK, and are off to a 1-2 start
WashSt lost to OKSt, MD, KY and three other unranked teams but at least started 2-2 - solid OOC schedule
AZSt - Lost to MD and Marq, but beat KY and a suspect FL - 2-1 in conference
UCLA lost to SC and Baylor but no signature wins - 2-1 in conference
Washington lost to ND and didn't play anyone else - 3-1 in conference
Stanford - beat a suspect TX and lost to TN and Gonzaga - 3-0 in conference
OrSt - played no one, but are off to a 3-0 start.

Everyone came into conference play except Washington State with 2 or fewer losses OOC so their RPIs will begin to skyrocket playing each other - Washington State obviously didn't get the memo to schedule down OOC! They may in fact get 8-9 teams into the dance, but I am not sure they place anyone as a two seed, and they might not even get a three seed which would be very strange indeed. I don't expect either Stanford or OrSt to go undefeated in conference and they could all end up with three or more losses in conference play and tournament. To get 8 or nine teams in the bottom three in conference are going to need to go 0fer against the rest in conference play, otherwise the 8 and 9 teams will have too many losses. I suspect the first five above will not perform well enough and I am not convinced Cal is good enough either and even with last nights win Washington State is starting in a hole with 8 losses already. A lot will depend on other P5 conferences and some of the borderline top of the mid-major 1, 2, 3 bid conferences.

 

[Vowelguy]

Am surprised that Ore St is 3-0/14-1. I thought they lost most of their players (except Wiese) to graduation?

 

[oldude]

Am surprised that Ore St is 3-0/14-1. I thought they lost most of their players (except Wiese) to graduation?

I watched some of the OSU game vs Cal last night. The not so secret of their success is Scott Rueck. He is an outstanding HC, who doesn't get enough credit because he's way up in the Pacific Northwest. If Rueck can persuade a steady stream of top talent to come to Corvallis, he's capable of winning a national championship.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Washington State is an interesting team. Like South Florida, they're loaded with international players. Indeed, eight of the fourteen players on the roster are from foreign countries.

Not saying anything's wrong with it. But wonder whether most athletic scholarships at state-funded/taxpayer-funded public universities shouldn't go to American athletes.

 

[UcMiami]

Washington State is an interesting team. Like South Florida, they're loaded with international players. Indeed, eight of the fourteen players on the roster are from foreign countries.

Not saying anything's wrong with it. But wonder whether most athletic scholarships at state-funded/taxpayer-funded public universities shouldn't go to American athletes.

Most of them do, maybe not for WCBB but I suspect eight scholarships is a tiny fraction of the total athletic scholarships.

 

[donalddoowop]

I watched some of the OSU game vs Cal last night. The not so secret of their success is Scott Rueck. He is an outstanding HC, who doesn't get enough credit because he's way up in the Pacific Northwest. If Rueck can persuade a steady stream of top talent to come to Corvallis, he's capable of winning a national championship.

Yes, but not until after the next four years on that NC.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Washington State was also missing 2 of their top 3 players in last nights win over UCLA and a freshman from Hawaii scored 33 points..
From what I have seen over the last several years, Tara, Neighbors, Rueck, and Turner-Thorne are by far the best coaches in the Pac 12. I think Graves will be ok at Oregon, like he was at Gonzaga. The others I am not impressed with or are too new to have an opinion on. I will say Daugherty at WSU plays probably the toughest pre-conference schedule of most teams, year in and out.

 

[Plebe]

Am surprised that Ore St is 3-0/14-1. I thought they lost most of their players (except Wiese) to graduation?

Lost three of their five starters from last year, including two draftees (Weisner and Hamblin). Returning starters are Wiese and Hanson.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Pac12 is going to be really interesting because we really didn't get much of a handle on the teams in OOC - the ones that played tougher schedules didn't have any good wins though they had 'good' losses, and the rest played very mediocre competition. It appears that they have a pretty balanced conference with a long middle, but the top end is pretty short and a little suspect. From the bottom:

Arizona played no one and still lost to KU, and have gotten off to an 0-3 start IC
Oregon lost to Miss State and beat a suspect MSU and are off to an 0-3 start
Colorado played no one and still lost to WYO and are off to a 1-2 start
Utah played no one and was undefeated and are now off to a 1-2 start
OrSt - played no one, but are off to a 3-0 start.

A lot will depend on other P5 conferences and some of the borderline top of the mid-major 1, 2, 3 bid conferences.

Arizona has a new head coach, has been dreadful, and added only a modest recruit stateside plus an outstanding get from overseas. As I have said elsewhere - they at least look like they are playing basketball. I'm not sure what they were doing last year.

Oregon has - I'm told - injuries. Don't know the details, surprised they have not done (immediately) better with Graves as HC.

Colorado under their previous coach always aced the OOC and died in Conference. While I wish better for them, that still appears to be the MO to me. Utah ditto.

Agree with other folks about Rueck.

As to the borderline bid conferences - American, Big East and A10 are probably about it. Always are plus maybe one other. But haven't heard a lot of mid-majors that aren't expected to win their conferences setting the world on fire.

 

[Plebe]

Pac12 is going to be really interesting because we really didn't get much of a handle on the teams in OOC - the ones that played tougher schedules didn't have any good wins though they had 'good' losses, and the rest played very mediocre competition. It appears that they have a pretty balanced conference with a long middle, but the top end is pretty short and a little suspect. From the bottom:

Arizona played no one and still lost to KU, and have gotten off to an 0-3 start IC
Oregon lost to Miss State and beat a suspect MSU and are off to an 0-3 start
USC lost to Miss State and beat a suspect TAMU and are off to a 1-2 start
Colorado played no one and still lost to WYO and are off to a 1-2 start
Utah played no one and was undefeated and are now off to a 1-2 start
Cal beat a somewhat suspect OK, and are off to a 1-2 start
WashSt lost to OKSt, MD, KY and three other unranked teams but at least started 2-2 - solid OOC schedule
AZSt - Lost to MD and Marq, but beat KY and a suspect FL - 2-1 in conference
UCLA lost to SC and Baylor but no signature wins - 2-1 in conference
Washington lost to ND and didn't play anyone else - 3-1 in conference
Stanford - beat a suspect TX and lost to TN and Gonzaga - 3-0 in conference
OrSt - played no one, but are off to a 3-0 start.

Everyone came into conference play except Washington State with 2 or fewer losses OOC so their RPIs will begin to skyrocket playing each other - Washington State obviously didn't get the memo to schedule down OOC! They may in fact get 8-9 teams into the dance, but I am not sure they place anyone as a two seed, and they might not even get a three seed which would be very strange indeed. I don't expect either Stanford or OrSt to go undefeated in conference and they could all end up with three or more losses in conference play and tournament. To get 8 or nine teams in the bottom three in conference are going to need to go 0fer against the rest in conference play, otherwise the 8 and 9 teams will have too many losses. I suspect the first five above will not perform well enough and I am not convinced Cal is good enough either and even with last nights win Washington State is starting in a hole with 8 losses already. A lot will depend on other P5 conferences and some of the borderline top of the mid-major 1, 2, 3 bid conferences.

After yesterday's win, Wazzu is #31 in Sagarin and #41 in Massey. For a sub-.500 team to be that high tells you how well they've played (i.e., close losses) against a tough schedule. The next-highest-ranked teams with losing records are, respectively, Princeton (#109 in Sagarin) and St. Mary's (#105 in Massey).

It's possible that the Pac-12 may not get a #2 seed, but I'd be shocked if they don't at least have a couple of #3 seeds and at least 3 teams hosting the first 2 rounds. There is certainly a bit of tradeoff: If there are clear conference alpha dogs that win all the games they're expected to, that gives them higher seeds going into the tournament, but at the expense of the bubble teams that were unable to score quality wins in conference.

 

[EricLA]

One of the things that struck me about UCLA is the fast pace they try to play at. They push the ball up the court on every occasion. The shot clock is never a factor. Sometimes that's good because their opponent can't set up their defense, but sometimes they force up quick shots when they should slow it down and work for a better shot, like the 2nd half vs WSU.

Totally agree - that's one of the many amazing things about UCONN - we LOVE to push the ball BUT... Geno drills into them "take the first GOOD shot". We don't go at a breakneck speed just so we can jack up ANY shot - it has to be a good one. If the shot isn't there, we generally kick it out and re-start the offense...