PAC-12 Coaches Ranking 1-12

[nwhoopfan]

Ummmmm…22 straight NACDA Directors Cup titles in a row until finishing second to Texas last year.

Okay, you got me there. It's Stanford, UCLA, USC....and then everybody else when it comes to total Championships.

Which other sport would you call Stanford dominant in? Women's soccer won a couple recently, but they aren't a perennial contender I don't think. Don't really think of them as a track school. Not baseball or softball either. Or gymnastics. Probably swimming. Golf? Tennis?

I think my point stands up though. If it's as simple as the school recruits itself, why aren't they better in the 2 revenue sports?

 

[jonson]

Okay, you got me there. It's Stanford, UCLA, USC....and then everybody else when it comes to total Championships.

Which other sport would you call Stanford dominant in? Women's soccer won a couple recently, but they aren't a perennial contender I don't think. Don't really think of them as a track school. Not baseball or softball either. Or gymnastics. Probably swimming. Golf? Tennis?

I think my point stands up though. If it's as simple as the school recruits itself, why aren't they better in the 2 revenue sports?

Maybe not as simple, but: I don't think the academic requirements at Stanford have close to same impact on WBB (and probably women's sports generally) as they do on football and MBB. There are of course players that Tara would probably love to recruit but can't due to academics; on the other hand, there also seem to be more than enough truly elite players (including two recent #1's, according to Hoopgurlz, as well as players like Cameron Brink) who do make the cut, and for those players the school's academics and reputation are likely a major factor more often than not. (I can remember several posters commenting that the fact that M. Pivec commited to Oregon State over Stanford was something of an anomaly--not because of the quality of the programs or coaches, but because, given the opportunity to attend Stanford, almost everyone who qualified said "yes.")

I think the academic requirements may pose a bigger hurdle in MBB (1 and done for those who are truly exceptional certainly doesn't help), while the numbers involved with football make the Stanford academic requirements, even if relaxed a bit, a formidable challenge in that sport.

None of this would of course matter without Tara, but the pluses that Stanford itself brings to recruiting in WBB are imo considerable.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Okay, you got me there. It's Stanford, UCLA, USC....and then everybody else when it comes to total Championships.

Which other sport would you call Stanford dominant in? Women's soccer won a couple recently, but they aren't a perennial contender I don't think. Don't really think of them as a track school. Not baseball or softball either. Or gymnastics. Probably swimming. Golf? Tennis?

I think my point stands up though. If it's as simple as the school recruits itself, why aren't they better in the 2 revenue sports?

I think Jonson does a good job above regarding the 2 revenue sports. In fact, I would argue they are usually better in football than you might expect.

They are good in a lot of things, like USC and UCLA. A lot of the championships may not be recent, but they are still "good" in a bunch of sports. Golf appears to be solid, women's tennis better than that. I don't know much else.

Softball would probably better if not for the whole John Rittman situation. Of which I have no idea of the real story, but he is a head coach again elsewhere.

 

[Dokey]

Admittedly I haven't been in all the Pac 12 cities. Have lived in Seattle area about half my lifetime, so I've got that one covered. Have been in Corvallis a number of times. My mom is from Springfield, right next door to Eugene. Have had family there my entire life, so I know that area well enough. Passed thru Pullman once.

So yeah, can't speak about SLC from any actual experience. Only time in Utah was a week in St. George, enjoyed my time there but that's not relevant. Maybe there is a cultural difference. Haven't been in Boulder but spent about a week in Estes Park, not that far away. Been in LA and the Bay Area a little from time to time. Never Phoenix (other than connecting flight thru there).

To me Pullman and Corvallis are the two clear outliers, both relatively smaller cities and somewhat isolated (although Pullman to a much greater extent). Everything else is at least mid sized cities or large metro areas, and not really too far "out there."


Happy now @DefenseBB ? We've totally sidetracked your thread from coaches to locations. Be careful what you wish for!

I wouldn’t compare Estes to Bouder, which is consistently listed as the best city its size in which to live in the country. Coaches used to have letters of intent ready for recruits to sign by stopping at the overlook just outside town.

 

[newfrontier]

I'm an Oregon State fan and to a lesser extent a Michigan State fan, as I attended both schools. I post here occasionally and I pretty much
agree with DefenseBB's assessment/ranking of Pac-12 coaches. This season Oregon State may have it's best roster ever in terms of potential talent and player rankings. They have 2 MAAs on the roster, and would have had a 3rd if Sasha Goforth had not gotten homesick, exacerbated by the Covid crisis. Fortunately for the team, A.J. Marotte, a late pickup for 2021, may turn out to be a respectable replacement for Goforth. OSU's last 2 recruiting classes in WBB have been the school's 2 highest ever (ESPN #8 in 2021 and ESPN #3 in 2022). Next year, barring injury and tranfers, Rueck will have even more potential talent than this year, with forwards Ellie Mack and Jovana Subasic being replaced by Timea Gardiner (2022 ESPN #6 player) and Raegan Beers (2022 ESPN #10 player) and guards Emily Codding and Tea Adams replaced by Adlee Blacklock (4 star) and Lily Hansford (4 star).

So, Rueck is frankly close to the point where the team needs to put up or shut up. Without another deep run (final 4) team within the next 2-3 years, the recruiting will start trending downward, IMO. The trend may not even be that slow as memories of the 3 straight conference championships and deep NCAA runs begin to fade. Also, while many diehard Beaver fans may disagree with me, OSU badly needs to replace Gill Colluseum with a modern, state-of-the-art arena in order to continue to attract top 25 recruits for the women's BB team, and start to do so for the men's BB team. Gill is a 70 year old barn whose better days, if there ever were any, have long passed. A new arena would also help recruiting for volleyball, gymnastics, and wrestling. Where in the world the University will get the 200 to 300 million needed to build one is beyond me, but maybe a miracle can happen. It is noteworthy that construction/replacement of the remaining part of Reser Stadium (the old south side) starts this December. I believe it was jumpstarted by an anonymous 40-50 million dollar donation. A new arena must follow right behind. OSU completely rebuilt/upgraded/modernized its football facility last year.

 

[DefenseBB]

Ummmmm…22 straight NACDA Directors Cup titles in a row until finishing second to Texas last year.

NACDA Directors' Cup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of NCAA schools with the most NCAA Division I championships - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have to say, I don't know what to make of a few of these schools like Oklahoma State who has 52 Titles, all in Men's sports and 0 in Women or Indiana with 24-0; UTEP 21-0; Illinois 18-0 or Houston 17-0. I mean, really?

BTW, I was looking hard but couldn't find Tennessee...

 

[LoTrader]

I'm an Oregon State fan and to a lesser extent a Michigan State fan, as I attended both schools. I post here occasionally and I pretty much
agree with DefenseBB's assessment/ranking of Pac-12 coaches. This season Oregon State may have it's best roster ever in terms of potential talent and player rankings. They have 2 MAAs on the roster, and would have had a 3rd if Sasha Goforth had not gotten homesick, exacerbated by the Covid crisis. Fortunately for the team, A.J. Marotte, a late pickup for 2021, may turn out to be a respectable replacement for Goforth. OSU's last 2 recruiting classes in WBB have been the school's 2 highest ever (ESPN #8 in 2021 and ESPN #3 in 2022). Next year, barring injury and tranfers, Rueck will have even more potential talent than this year, with forwards Ellie Mack and Jovana Subasic being replaced by Timea Gardiner (2022 ESPN #6 player) and Raegan Beers (2022 ESPN #10 player) and guards Emily Codding and Tea Adams replaced by Adlee Blacklock (4 star) and Lily Hansford (4 star).

So, Rueck is frankly close to the point where the team needs to put up or shut up. Without another deep run (final 4) team within the next 2-3 years, the recruiting will start trending downward, IMO. The trend may not even be that slow as memories of the 3 straight conference championships and deep NCAA runs begin to fade. Also, while many diehard Beaver fans may disagree with me, OSU badly needs to replace Gill Colluseum with a modern, state-of-the-art arena in order to continue to attract top 25 recruits for the women's BB team, and start to do so for the men's BB team. Gill is a 70 year old barn whose better days, if there ever were any, have long passed. A new arena would also help recruiting for volleyball, gymnastics, and wrestling. Where in the world the University will get the 200 to 300 million needed to build one is beyond me, but maybe a miracle can happen. It is noteworthy that construction/replacement of the remaining part of Reser Stadium (the old south side) starts this December. I believe it was jumpstarted by an anonymous 40-50 million dollar donation. A new arena must follow right behind. OSU completely rebuilt/upgraded/modernized its football facility last year.

I think we are a long way away from Rueck's OSU WBB Team will have to "put up or shut up". I am definitely one of the diehard Beaver fans (alumni) who thinks Gill Coliseum should not be replaced. I think Gill Coliseum is so unique and basketball friendly that I hope it never has to be replaced. Contrast this to UO's Matthew Knight Arena which is a beautiful new arena, but not a fun place to watch a basketball game. For me, Gill is a much better, intimate, basketball arena that would be hard to replicate with a new arena.

 

[newfrontier]

I have not attended a game in Matthew Knight Arena, but I find it difficult to understand why it is "not a fun place to watch a basketball game." I am well familiar with the Breslin Center (built in 1984 with a capacity of 15,000) on the campus of Michigan State University and it is severely underrated. People who actually know something consider it among the best places in the country to witness a college baskeball game. The student section (the "Izzone") is large, very close to the team benches, and very intimidating. So, I don't what the problem is with MKA, but good arena designs that work well are out there, ready to be modeled after.

 

[Floridaduck]

I’ve never been to Oregon’s MKA arena much to my regret. Live too far away. I understand the fondness for Gill at OSU though. There was nothing like watching an intense game at the old Mac Court when the overhead scoreboard started bouncing. But it’s time has come and gone and MKA is now the place to be. I think the new facility helps recruiting.

 

[jonson]

I have not attended a game in Matthew Knight Arena, but I find it difficult to understand why it is "not a fun place to watch a basketball game." I am well familiar with the Breslin Center (built in 1984 with a capacity of 15,000) on the campus of Michigan State University and it is severely underrated. People who actually know something consider it among the best places in the country to witness a college baskeball game. The student section (the "Izzone") is large, very close to the team benches, and very intimidating. So, I don't what the problem is with MKA, but good arena designs that work well are out there, ready to be modeled after.

I'm a season ticket holder and don't think there is anything wrong with the new Oregon arena (other than the floor). Great seats all around, great sight lines, and--for the past several years--great crowds: in 2019-20, second in number only to SC, I believe. In short, "a fun place" to watch games. I understand the affection for the old "Mac Court" with the bouncing scoreboard, etc., and a crowd (for MBB) of "deranged idiots" (the term comes from one of Wooden's successors), but, for too many seats, the sight lines were terrible, with lots of them having only a "partial view" of the court. And the seats themselves. . . . That wasn't a problem for WBB, since the attendance, other than around 1999-2001, was terrible, but I, for one, would never want to go back.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Yikes. After seeing some of Cal, Utah and Washington, I'm afraid my Huskies are headed back to the cellar, where they finished during the first season under the previous head coach. I could be wrong, but those other 2 look much sharper and have a lot more firepower on offense. I don't think any of Colorado, USC or Washington St. is gonna volunteer to sink to the bottom. Arizona St. might struggle this year but again, can't see them finishing that low.

 

[LoTrader]

Didn't mean to be overly critical of MKA. It is a beautiful arena, more like an arena for a professional team. To me, it doesn't have the intimacy of Gill. It is a beautiful arena, and, where I sat at the UO game, I needed oxygen. I suppose had I sat a bit closer to the floor, I would have felt differently. In any case, no question, it is a beautiful arena.

 

[Floridaduck]

Yikes. After seeing some of Cal, Utah and Washington, I'm afraid my Huskies are headed back to the cellar, where they finished during the first season under the previous head coach. I could be wrong, but those other 2 look much sharper and have a lot more firepower on offense. I don't think any of Colorado, USC or Washington St. is gonna volunteer to sink to the bottom. Arizona St. might struggle this year but again, can't see them finishing that low.

It’s going to be a rough year for everybody in the Pac-12 especially on the road. With the multiple transfers coming into the league it seems like every team has upgraded. All about the road games…. What’s the old formula? Win at home, split on the road and you’ll be a contender at least.

 

[Dokey]

As we get hyped up over the 2021-22 Season, I thought I would do a "ranking" of the P5+Big East Coaches. I am starting off with the PAC-12 for 2 reason:
1. They are the best basketball conference
2. Our esteemed colleague, @CocoHusky and I are in a tiny disagreement over the proper designation of Cori Close's coaching acumen, which had me wondering where the word "mediocre" would place a coach within their relative conference or among the whole of D1. I have Cori at #5 in the PAC-12 and her "trend" as flat. At 213 wins and only 110 losses with a 115-63 conference record, I view that as good. Plus, she's qualified for 6 NCAA Tournaments out of 9 years. She would have qualified in 2020 for 7/10 and she did win the WNIT! Her fame is as a recruiter but she did beat Maryland AT Maryland in the 2019 NCAAT 2nd round game so her x's and o's are better than Brenda's. That said, she only belongs in the "Good" category.

Below, I have listed my ranking of the coaches 1-12 with an associated "category" option of "Elite", "Very Good", "Good" and "Suspect". For clarity- my "Elite designation" follows "Webster's" definition

"a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society". I am using "ELITE" across ALL of society (all D1 schools) so that only a "handful" of coaches can meet this criteria-Tara (shown below), Geno (duh!), Kim and Dawn. This fits nicely given the multiple NCAA Titles and Conference titles each has won and the domination they have exerted on the rest of the teams in their conferences.

Listed is the Rank, Name, years as a PAC-12 Coach, PAC-12 overall/conference record, All schools record, # post-season tournaments, other division records/post-season. I also added a “trend” comment based on their last few years with "up" meaning a good year this year could elevate them next year, "down" means they could be demoted to the rank below, "flat means they either show no signs of improvement or are already in the last designation. For example, JR Payne needs to show something as she's 25-63 in the PAC-12 without an NCAAT appearance.
Elite
1. Tara VanDerveer-Stanford 35 yrs. 973-204, 531-91, 152-51 35 NCAAT, 3 Champions 1 AIAW (no need to comment on this all-time great)
Very Good
2. Scott Rueck-Oregon State 11 yrs 240-113, 121-70, 7 NCAAT, 1 WNIT; D-3: 288-88, 178-50, 7 NCAAT/1 D2 Title (trend is down as he has to show he can coach an offense to compete in 2022, defense can only go so far)
3. Kelly Graves-Oregon 7 yrs. 172-62, 82-43, 382-162, 12 NCAAT, 5 WNIT (trend is flat)
Good
4. Adia Barnes-Arizona 6 yrs 89-66, 39-50 1 NCAA, 1 WNIT (trend is up)
5. Cori Close-UCLA 10 yrs 213-110, 115-63, 6 NCAAT, 1 WNIT (trend is flat)
6. Charlie Turner-Thorne Arizona State 24 yrs 476-280, 243-181, 40-40, 14 NCAAT, 5 WNIT (trend is down)
7. Tina Langley-Washington 0 yrs. 126-61 68-31 1-NCAAT, 2 WNIT, 1 WBI (trend is unknown)
Suspect
8. Lindsey Gottlieb-USC 8 yrs, 179-89, 86-58, 7 NCAAT, 8 WNIT (She has a talented USC team but her last years at Cal weren’t good, trend is flat)
9. Kamie Ethridge-WSU 3 yrs. 32-53 17-38; 83-44 2-NCAAT; 1 WNIT (trend is flat, last year started great but finished poorly)
10. Lynn Roberts-Utah 6 yrs. 91-78, 40-68; 96-121, 7-WNIT; D-2 86-31, 4 NCAA (trend is flat)
11. JR Payne-Colorado 5 yrs. 72-75, 25-63; 101-113; 3-WNIT (trend is flat)
12. Charmin Smith-Cal 2 YRS. 13-35, 4-27 (trend is unknown but likely flat)

Open the discussion-particularly our few OSU, UW and Stanford fans.

PS. Cheer up Coco, I still think the world of you on almost all other things!

Well, I don’t agree with JR on everything but putting her 11th is laughingly absurd.

 

[Dokey]

Maybe not as simple, but: I don't think the academic requirements at Stanford have close to same impact on WBB (and probably women's sports generally) as they do on football and MBB. There are of course players that Tara would probably love to recruit but can't due to academics; on the other hand, there also seem to be more than enough truly elite players (including two recent #1's, according to Hoopgurlz, as well as players like Cameron Brink) who do make the cut, and for those players the school's academics and reputation are likely a major factor more often than not. (I can remember several posters commenting that the fact that M. Pivec commited to Oregon State over Stanford was something of an anomaly--not because of the quality of the programs or coaches, but because, given the opportunity to attend Stanford, almost everyone who qualified said "yes.")

I think the academic requirements may pose a bigger hurdle in MBB (1 and done for those who are truly exceptional certainly doesn't help), while the numbers involved with football make the Stanford academic requirements, even if relaxed a bit, a formidable challenge in that sport.

None of this would of course matter without Tara, but the pluses that Stanford itself brings to recruiting in WBB are imo considerable.

Two of the best players to come out of Colorado recently, Fran, and incoming Lauren, are true scholar athletes and Stanford had a lock on them by combining top bb with too academics. It doesn’t take many—there are only five on the floor.

 

[Dokey]

Rankings are very reasonable and probably fairly accurate in the eyes of this Oregon fan. The only quibbles might be Katie/WSU and JR/Colorado - both seem to have their teams on upward paths compared to what they walked into. Good job!

Yeah, here in Colorado we are pretty happy with JR—and her defensive coach, her hubby, who has CU playing a really big time defense. Those who knock her only display total ignorance.

 

[jonson]

Yeah, here in Colorado we are pretty happy with JR—and her defensive coach, her hubby, who has CU playing a really big time defense. Those who knock her only display total ignorance.

I know that she has a least one big fan in Eugene, since she both played for (St. Mary's), and coached under (Gonzaga), Kelly Graves.

 

[DefenseBB]

Yeah, here in Colorado we are pretty happy with JR—and her defensive coach, her hubby, who has CU playing a really big time defense. Those who knock her only display total ignorance.

Well, usually when some one has a divergent opinion they would counter with their rankings so for my edification tell me (and us) your view who is lower than JR and hopefully you will have some supporting evidence other than what @jonson offered up as a former player for Kelly.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I hate saying this...but Rueck at some point soon is gonna have to start showing he's not one of those coaches that actually did better with unheralded recruits and starts getting diminishing results with more talent "on paper." After turning around a dumpster fire he went 13-5, 16-2, 16-2, 16-2, 14-4 and 14-4 in conference. That was good for 2nd, first place 3 years in a row, then 3rd twice. The last 2 years have netted a 17-14 record in conference w/ a pair of 5th place finishes. This season is off to a rough start. His best teams were led by Weisner, Wiese, Hamblin and Gulich, none of whom got any kind of recruiting hype.

 

[LoTrader]

OSU's win today vs Pacific was a loss. Like Stanford, OSU does not have a pure point guard. TvO can create her own shot, and penetrate the paint, but she is not yet proficient at running the offense from the point. Rueck played Greta Kampschroeder today at the point for some of the game today. I really didn't like the lack of in-game defensive adjustments today. Pacific has two solid guards, and OSU never pressured them defensively. It was a non-traditional OSU defensive effort on the perimeter today. OSU is leaning to the bottom half of the PAC-12 after today's performance. Hope they get it together before PAC-12 play.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Like Stanford, OSU does not have a pure point guard. TvO can create her own shot, and penetrate the paint, but she is not yet proficient at running the offense from the point. Rueck played Greta Kampschroeder today at the point for some of the game today.

Adams and Mannen were both tried in Q1 and both seen little after that. Beavs have several options and none of them appear to be working.

 

[Dokey]

Well, usually when some one has a divergent opinion they would counter with their rankings so for my edification tell me (and us) your view who is lower than JR and hopefully you will have some supporting evidence other than what @jonson offered up as a former player for Kelly.

No, I am not playing. I am really not interested at all in putting one coach ahead or below another. I am not at practices. I thought the whole ranking of the coaches a trifle absurd, as so many factors are at play. That JR’s team did as well as it did in the PAC-12 last year speaks well of her coaching. Luck out in a surprising recruit or two and suddenly you are the new coming of John Wooden.

 

[DefenseBB]

No, I am not playing. I am really not interested at all in putting one coach ahead or below another. I am not at practices. I thought the whole ranking of the coaches a trifle absurd, as so many factors are at play. That JR’s team did as well as it did in the PAC-12 last year speaks well of her coaching. Luck out in a surprising recruit or two and suddenly you are the new coming of John Wooden.

Yet, you did comment on it and did make a point of saying she belonged somewhere else in the ranking and you continue comment on the thread. Her over record as a head coach is 173-188 and she's 72-75 at Colorado (25-63 in the PAC12). Those records speak for themselves but yes, 8-8 in the PAC12 last year she did better than she ever had including a big win over Stanford. The last sentence you gave is itself absurd as it takes a lot more than a "surprising recruit or two" for anyone to think you could be John Wooden...but hey I am glad you are happy with her as a coach and maybe this year she will continue her evolution. I don't have a personal stake, only a statistical and observational perspective and I stand by my view of her at this point in her career. Hopefully she can perform as well or better than Ceal Barry when all is said and done and all that would take is a surprising recruit or two...

 

[undersized]

Both OSU's (Oregon State and Ohio State) better be out of the top-25 next week.

Even though Oregon actually lost tonight, I'd be more OK with keeping them in the top 25 simply because they are temporarily (hopefully just temporarily) without their best players.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Even though Oregon actually lost tonight, I'd be more OK with keeping them in the top 25 simply because they are temporarily (hopefully just temporarily) without their best players.

How does that make any sense? You can only use the players you have available, until it changes, this IS who the Ducks are. Just as much not a Top 25 team as the other 2 you went after.