OT: What if the best US althletes played soccer?

[CL82]

Link

I don't necessarily agree with the "analysis" of the listed individual athletes, but from time to time I do wonder about this. If football wasn't available, if basketball wasn't so popular, a lot of pretty athletic guys would end up playing soccer. As noted in another thread, great athletes can play any sport and play it well. I have to think that we'd consistently be a World Cup contender, if not the favorite.

 

[Waquoit]

Link

I don't necessarily agree with the "analysis" of the listed individual athletes, but from time to time I do wonder about this. If football wasn't available, if basketball wasn't so popular, a lot of pretty athletic guys would end up playing soccer. As noted in another thread, great athletes can play any sport and play it well. I have to think that we'd consistently be a World Cup contender, if not the favorite.

I wonder. Soccer takes a great deal of skill and teamwork to excel. You can't just 'ball, you have to practice. Who was a better athlete than Iverson? And we know what he thought about practice.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there are more than a handful of American athletes who work at their craft.

 

[uconNYC]

Let's look at it this way - if Messi, C.Ronaldo and Neymar started practicing jumpshots at a young age would they be top level NBA guards?

 

[UConn990411]

Let's look at it this way - if Messi, C.Ronaldo and Neymar started practicing jumpshots at a young age would they be top level NBA guards?

No, probably not, and no.

 

[uconNYC]

No, probably not, and no.

Exactly my point.

 

[BarkingDog]

The question should be: What if soccer players were the highest paid US athletes?

 

[CL82]

Exactly my point.

Of course that assumes that all these guys are fungible. The core premise is that top football and hoops players are better athletes than soccer players. Is that a fair point for discussion?

 

[CL82]

I wonder. Soccer takes a great deal of skill and teamwork to excel. You can't just 'ball, you have to practice. Who was a better athlete than Iverson? And we know what he thought about practice.

Agreed but if they were playing basketball or football, the assumption is that they'd be playing soccer, so they'd have the hours in to develop the skills.

 

[Gurleyman]

Why not look at Thierry Henry and Tony Parker - two guys about the same size and athleticism coming out of the same country. Both became among the best in the world at what they do, because those sports fit their skills.

Athleticism gets you to a certain point, but being able to shoot a basketball from 23 feet on the move - or being able to control a soccer ball with your feet to the point that you can place it where you want under heavy pressure the way a golfer can shape a fade or draw - are skills that you aren't guaranteed to master now matter how early you start playing. Hoops obviously puts a premium on height that soccer doesn't - but pure athletes usually don't succeed in soccer either. Not like Jamaica can throw Usain Bolt up top and have him run everything down against an organized back four.

Messi has every bit of the transcendent athletic genius/wizardry/vision of Magic or Cousy - two guys who weren't really more athletic than their contemporaries, but are on the short list of the best point guards ever. You can't just say that if only Allen Iverson had played soccer, he'd have been able to do the same things.

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[Adios]

I'd rather be a world power in basketball and ice hockey than soccer. Basketball and ice hockey have exploded in popularity around the world. They even have ice hockey in the Middle East now.

 

[Burnsbros23]

If our best athletes played soccer we would be the best. If their best athletes played basketball and football their would be a lot more foreigners in the NFL and NBA.

 

[Gurleyman]

I'd rather be a world power in basketball and ice hockey than soccer. Basketball and ice hockey have exploded in popularity around the world. They even have ice hockey in the Middle East now.

If your premise is that you don't care what the world thinks, that's a fair point - no reason we have to be a soccer power with so many other options in our country. If your point is that world popularity does matter, then I don't get your point. Basketball and hockey "exploding" around the world is like the MLS "exploding" here. Great for the sport to find a niche, but they're never catching up to the big fish - too much history and tradition in the way.

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[Adios]

If our best athletes played soccer we would be the best. If their best athletes played basketball and football their would be a lot more foreigners in the NFL and NBA.

Our best athletes helped popularize basketball and, to some extent, football. Gridiron football is slowly growing in popularity. Germany, other European countries, Japan and India have pro leagues now, at least. It was worth it for us to neglect soccer.

 

[Adios]

If your premise is that you don't care what the world thinks, that's a fair point - no reason we have to be a soccer power with so many other options in our country. If your point is that world popularity does matter, then I don't get your point. Basketball and hockey "exploding" around the world is like the MLS "exploding" here. Great for the sport to find a niche, but they're never catching up to the big fish - too much history and tradition in the way.

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My point was just it was good to showcase such sports to the world. An MLS exec said they'll become second to the NFL here in a matter of time.

 

[Gurleyman]

If our best athletes played soccer we would be the best. If their best athletes played basketball and football their would be a lot more foreigners in the NFL and NBA.

And you base this on what exactly? The fastest people we can find lose to Jamaica. The best distance runners we can find lose to Kenya. Why would we automatically dominate in soccer?


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[Gurleyman]

My point was just it was good to showcase such sports to the world. An MLS exec said they'll become second to the NFL here in a matter of time.

Gotcha. My apologies. Your point is a good one.


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[Waquoit]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there are more than a handful of American athletes who work at their craft.

It's not a matter of working at their craft, it's a matter of perfecting a difficult skill. Controlling a soccer ball is like hitting a baseball. It's more than just being a great athlete. Who was a better athlete than Jordan and he couldn't hit in the minor's. OTOH, Antonio Gates never played the game until the NFL and he is an all-time great at his position.

 

[mets1090]

We have some pretty good baseball players

 

[dapriest]

This is going to end up being yet another discussion of who is the better athlete, with "athlete" never being explicitly defined.

If you had to pick 50 guys from one sport to make your best team to play baseball, basketball, football, soccer, cricket, rugby, golf, and so on, my order of major sports would be . . .

BBall
Football
Soccer
Baseball

BBall first because almost every guy on the court in the NBA is a great athlete and could be good at anything.
Football second because there are a lot of position players who are not great athletes, mixed in with great athletes.
Soccer over baseball because baseball is, for the most part, non-cardio, and a narrow skill set.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

It's more than just being a great athlete. Who was a better athlete than Jordan and he couldn't hit in the minor's.

All this tells me is that if you put Dwyane Wade in a Chelsea shirt tomorrow he'd be in over his head. But what if he grew up playing soccer rather than basketball?

 

[Gurleyman]

The original link has it all wrong. Kobe, LeBron, Durant and KG would likely not be great soccer players. There are very few soccer players over 6-4, even though someone that tall can win a lot of headers and have an advantage. Simple physics - the further you are away from something the harder it is to control. The best soccer players have always been normal human size (Maradona was even a little smaller).

And if we had a time machine and started 4-year-old Allen Iverson on soccer, and gave him all the best training, odds are he wouldn't be as good as Landon Donovan - who is more like a football quarterback when it comes to having a very specific innate skillset to go with his athleticism. The ability to throw a football 30 yards into a seam and hit a receiver in stride, and the ability to cross a soccer ball 50 yards onto a dime (while making the right reads before the pass) aren't things any great athlete can learn to do. The world has been playing soccer for a couple centuries, and Messi is probably in the five best to ever play the game. There have been plenty of better raw athletes in soccer, but his skill is something that can't be taught or developed through repetitive practice.

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[dapriest]

The original link has it all wrong. Kobe, LeBron, Durant and KG would likely not be great soccer players. There are very few soccer players over 6-4, even though someone that tall can win a lot of headers and have an advantage. Simple physics - the further you are away from something the harder it is to control. The best soccer players have always been normal human size (Maradona was even a little smaller).

Simple physics?
More like, if you look at a normal distribution of human height, you get a graph that looks like this:

6'4" is 76". You can see by inspection that only a 1% or so of men fall in that range (in North America).
I'd guess South America has even less, as does Italy and Spain.
So, by pure % of the population, you'd expect very few soccer players to be over 6/4.
Throw in that, at least in white populations, men over 6/4 tend to be ungainly, and you are not going to see a lot of soccer players over 6/4 coming out of europe.
But it's got nothing to do with physics.
You take your average NBA athlete and start him at age 3 playing soccer, he'll be better than your typical 5/8 guy, because he'll be bigger, faster, and stronger, with at least the same dexterity.

This is simple statistics - the number of South American and European kids playing soccer who are 5/6-6/0 outnumber 6/4 and up players by about 200 to 1, if not more. It is, therefore, no surprise to see that most successful players are relatively short.

Have no doubt - if a 6/6 athletic guy grew up on soccer like Maradonna did, he would have a huge physical advantage over a 5/8 shorty with the same background.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

And if we had a time machine and started 4-year-old Allen Iverson on soccer, and gave him all the best training, odds are he wouldn't be as good as Landon Donovan - who is more like a football quarterback when it comes to having a very specific innate skillset to go with his athleticism.
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You lost me. Why is it that "odds are" he wouldnt be as good as Donovan? What about Donovon's talent is innate that you wouldnt expect to find in Iverson? Just to use your example, Iverson was a football quarterback - in fact, he was the best high school quarterback in the country as a senior in high school. Something tells me if you gave him a soccer ball as a four year old he'd be pretty good at that too.

 

[Burnsbros23]

And you base this on what exactly? The fastest people we can find lose to Jamaica. The best distance runners we can find lose to Kenya. Why would we automatically dominate in soccer?


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In my opinion if our best athletes grew up playing soccer they would be good. Our team isnt even that bad right now and the best athletes play Basketball, Baseball and Football.

Also I dont agree with your statement about Jamaica many of our Track athletes end up quitting track for football.