ot: USF in trouble

[Vowelguy]

Our old friend Jose violated some rules.

South Florida failed to monitor its football, women’s basketball programs - NCAA.org

The South Florida football and women's basketball programs exceeded the number of allowed countable coaches and the women's basketball program required student-athletes

www.ncaa.org

• Three years of probation.
• A $10,000 fine plus 0.5% of each of the football and women's basketball budgets.
• A reduction in initial football scholarships by two during the 2022-23 academic year.
• A suspension for the former football head coach, in which any member school that employs the coach in an athletically related position must suspend the coach from all activities for one football regular season contest in the coach's first season.
• A one-year show-cause for the women's basketball head coach, including a 15-hour suspension from practices during the regular season.

 

[Sifaka]

OK. The coaches, the schools and the NCAA all agreed to the violations and the penalties. So far, so good, but read the fine print:

“The Division I Committee on Infractions reviewed the case to determine whether the resolution was in the best interests of the Association and whether the agreed-upon penalties were reasonable.”

Note that the judgment criteria do include the best interests of the Association (a.k.a., the NCAA), and do not include the best interests of the University nor the “student athletes”.

No wonder any mention of the NCAA evokes cynicism, disdain, mirth,or all of the aforementioned.

 

[JordyG]

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[RockyMTblue2]

What the Hades did Jose's operation do?

"The South Florida football and women's basketball programs exceeded the number of allowed countable coaches and the women's basketball program required student-athletes to exceed weekly limits for countable athletically related activity, according to an agreement released by the Division I Committee on Infractions. As a result of the violations, the former football coach and the women's basketball coach violated head coach responsibility rules, and South Florida failed to monitor its football and women's basketball programs."

 

[oldude]

Sorry to hear this news. Jose had done some nice things at USF and appeared to be a pretty decent guy. Obviously, he had to know better on number of coaches and practice hrs allowed. You never want to give the University an excuse to make a change.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Doesn't sound like a big deal. Are we missing something here? The agreement says that Jose can't be hired by any other school, or else! Huh?

 

[Zinethar]

That "or else" thing was only for the football coach. By having "countable" coaches that seems like it could result in a disagreement easily on who was "countable". Sorry to hear that. He must have been doing pretty well to be noticed by the NCAA.

 

[Blue Huskie]

Still seems preferable to losing scholly's.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Doesn't sound like a big deal. Are we missing something here? The agreement says that Jose can't be hired by any other school, or else! Huh?

The dreaded lack of institutional / head coach's control. One of the penalties is a 1 year show cause.

As has been discussed elsewhere, only "coaches" can participate in, well, coaching. That was one rule they violated. The other was some practice too late at night, but more primarily having them participate in cardio and free throw shooting without that time being counted.

In the end, it isn't as much a big deal as with their football team, where they had folks with communication devices warning them when there was a compliance person around, so that they could continue after having been caught before. Yikes.

It isn't that huge of a penalty, really.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

That "or else" thing was only for the football coach. By having "countable" coaches that seems like it could result in a disagreement easily on who was "countable". Sorry to hear that. He must have been doing pretty well to be noticed by the NCAA.

I read the piece. Not in this case. Non-coaches "coaching" during practice. They can't. You are a coach or you are something else (Director of, Personnel something, Administrator, etc.) Now I'm not completely convinced that this doesn't happen more than we know. But they got caught.

 

[Alydar]

That "or else" thing was only for the football coach. By having "countable" coaches that seems like it could result in a disagreement easily on who was "countable". Sorry to hear that. He must have been doing pretty well to be noticed by the NCAA.

Agree that it may be a grey area whether someone was or was not a countable coach. Maybe Jose stretched it too far? Who knows. But likely it was a former employee providing the information. From what little I have read about these things they usually stem from someone else being caught doing something but trading leniency for evidence of bigger violators.

 

[DefenseBB]

So his selection on being put on the WBCA Board is a bit of a bad timing?

 

[stamfordhusky]

Agree that it may be a grey area whether someone was or was not a countable coach. Maybe Jose stretched it too far? Who knows. But likely it was a former employee providing the information. From what little I have read about these things they usually stem from someone else being caught doing something but trading leniency for evidence of bigger violators.

Not really a gray area at all. There are four countable coaches, who can be readily identified because they are the four who have been certified by the NCAA to go out and recruit. If the coach lets anyone else coach during practice, he is very aware that it is an NCAA violation. With the constant churn of players and coaches, if you cheat you will likely be caught.

 

[Alydar]

Not really a gray area at all. There are four countable coaches, who can be readily identified because they are the four who have been certified by the NCAA to go out and recruit. If the coach lets anyone else coach during practice, he is very aware that it is an NCAA violation. With the constant churn of players and coaches, if you cheat you will likely be caught.

The grey area would be in the definition of "coaching" as opposed to say, strength and conditioning.

 

[D J B]

All the talk about the number of coaches allowed, how about the rest of it? Sure seems like an abuse of the players (which exceeding the number of coaches isn't).

"...the women's basketball program required student-athletes to participate in countable athletically related activities that exceeded the number of hours allowed per week on 23 occasions. Specifically, women's basketball student-athletes were required to shoot 50 daily free throws in addition to scheduled and recorded practice times. The coaching staff also required student-athletes to complete weekly cardio workouts outside of scheduled and recorded practice times. On one occasion, the program also exceeded required athletically related activities limits when the women's basketball team was required to practice until 11:30 p.m. in violation of NCAA rules...)

Trying to understand, so help me out here. It seems that players were asked (required) to do many things on their own time that should have been limited to time allowed under the rules.

 

[CL82]

Anyone else getting tired of the corruption in woman's basketball? In this case the splash from it took out the football program too.

 

[Rocket009]

That "or else" thing was only for the football coach. By having "countable" coaches that seems like it could result in a disagreement easily on who was "countable". Sorry to hear that. He must have been doing pretty well to be noticed by the NCAA.

More likely pissed off someone in an P5 school who then sent the NCAA "old boys network" after them.

 

[JoePgh]

Maybe @stamfordhusky or another expert on NCAA rules can answer some questions. I'm thinking specifically of UConn WBB when I ask these questions, but I'm sure they apply to any high-level program.

1. What about strength and conditioning coaches? Is Amanda Hudy a "countable coach" at UConn? I'm pretty sure that she doesn't recruit, but when recruits come to visit (officially or otherwise), I will bet that they will meet her and she will describe the conditioning program and expectations.
2. I assume academic tutors are OK, and are not countable coaches? Is there any limit on how many of these there can be?
3. I know some programs have someone whose main job is to review video of previous games and practices and pick out things that the coaches may want to raise with the player, or even to show them to the players themselves. Are these "countable coaches"?
4. I really can't believe that UConn players only spend 20 hours a week on basketball, if that includes not only practices but conditioning sessions, film sessions, and individual talks with the coaches about how to improve their play. For all practical purposes, all of these activities are "required", inasmuch as any player who blew them off would certainly go to the end of the bench, and possibly lose her scholarship. But since most UConn players are aiming for a professional basketball career after college, getting better at basketball is what they really want to do -- just as a science major who aspires to do groundbreaking research in astronomy or whatever will spend ungodly hours in the lab -- and for students who are really serious about that, all those hours are for practical purposes "required" (if they want to have any chance to get into a top graduate program). How does the NCAA distinguish between required and "voluntary" (in name only) basketball-related activities?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Maybe @stamfordhusky or another expert on NCAA rules can answer some questions. I'm thinking specifically of UConn WBB when I ask these questions, but I'm sure they apply to any high-level program.

1. What about strength and conditioning coaches? Is Amanda Hudy a "countable coach" at UConn? I'm pretty sure that she doesn't recruit, but when recruits come to visit (officially or otherwise), I will bet that they will meet her and she will describe the conditioning program and expectations.
2. I assume academic tutors are OK, and are not countable coaches? Is there any limit on how many of these there can be?
3. I know some programs have someone whose main job is to review video of previous games and practices and pick out things that the coaches may want to raise with the player, or even to show them to the players themselves. Are these "countable coaches"?
4. I really can't believe that UConn players only spend 20 hours a week on basketball, if that includes not only practices but conditioning sessions, film sessions, and individual talks with the coaches about how to improve their play. For all practical purposes, all of these activities are "required", inasmuch as any player who blew them off would certainly go to the end of the bench, and possibly lose her scholarship. But since most UConn players are aiming for a professional basketball career after college, getting better at basketball is what they really want to do -- just as a science major who aspires to do groundbreaking research in astronomy or whatever will spend ungodly hours in the lab -- and for students who are really serious about that, all those hours are for practical purposes "required" (if they want to have any chance to get into a top graduate program). How does the NCAA distinguish between required and "voluntary" (in name only) basketball-related activities?

1 & 2 and to a lesser extent 3 are easy to handle - only the coaches can teach skills, can be on court during practice, etc. Strength and conditioning is not a basketball "skill" and isn't done on court during practice. While the video folks may prepare the video, it is the coaches who go over the videos with the players. Academic advisors by whatever title have nothing to do with it. Although, their role is specified as well, it has nothing to do with coaching.

I don't know the details on hours and how it is administered (and counted), but I'm quite sure it is all specified. In great detail, I assume. I do remember that one of the compliance folks from the Big East once said that each schools compliance person's job was to figure out just how much a program could do before crossing the line.

 

[Beemer]

Anyone else getting tired of the corruption in woman's basketball? In this case the splash from it took out the football program too.

I am but it is no surprise. Women's basketball is now a major college sport with big $ at stake. It lost its innocence a long time ago.