OT: UConn's academic budget

[upstater]

http://www.courant.com/education/hc-uconn-tuition-increases-1029-20151028-story.html

Sounds like some hard choices coming down the road.

1/3rd of budget deficit met through tuition increases? The rest through cuts?

I'd say yeah, at best. If you're already in the $13.x range for tuition, then yeah, you don't want to go above 5-6% rise. AT MOST.

 

[TasteofUConn]

College education as a right of passage is on the ropes in the United States. The economy is garbage and getting worse and the value of a 4 year liberal arts college degree is plummeting.
There is going to be a massive, much needed contraction of colleges/universities in this country going forward, as the allure of blowing huge coin to get a degree that doesn't add much value continues to fade. There will always be a place for 4 year colleges, it just needs to be a lot smaller than it is now. Hack Reactor exemplifies the learning mechanism of the future - do your own work to get prepped, apply to get in, get in, 3 months of 11 hour day coding, close to 100% job placement making 80 grand or more.
We need to stop being so focused on paper degrees and be more focused on ability and skill to perform the job.

 

[Sportsman5]

College education as a right of passage is on the ropes in the United States. The economy is garbage and getting worse and the value of a 4 year liberal arts college degree is plummeting.
There is going to be a massive, much needed contraction of colleges/universities in this country going forward, as the allure of blowing huge coin to get a degree that doesn't add much value continues to fade. There will always be a place for 4 year colleges, it just needs to be a lot smaller than it is now. Hack Reactor exemplifies the learning mechanism of the future - do your own work to get prepped, apply to get in, get in, 3 months of 11 hour day coding, close to 100% job placement making 80 grand or more.
We need to stop being so focused on paper degrees and be more focused on ability and skill to perform the job.

agreed. especially because many emerging international markets will build their economies around dynamic and nimble learning opportunities that can easily deal with changing economies.

Obviously some forms of traditional education will remain relevant for at least a few more decades. After that it's unpredictable what the worlds economy and education system will look like.

 

[jazyj]

Is it worth it to get a degree in computer science, or should one just self teach themselves a coding language? (Im learning Java right now)

 

[kibblesnbits]

Computer science is a lot more than just knowing a language. Lots of people can write bad code. CS is about the science of solving complex computational problems so it is as much about analysis, algorithm development and implementation process as it is about then being able to write some code.

 

[Leebo]

It depends what you want to do. Lots of independent game and app developers are self-taught without degrees. If you want a job at a real company, you will either need to create some impressive projects on your own or get that degree.

 

[jibsey]

Private colleges like Yale, Wesleyan, or Connecticut College are up to$65,000 per year, so is $25,000 that bad? SUNY in New York is much more reasonable but UCONN has plunged a lot into Storrs and I am all for it. Academically they are great but they don't have the national sports prominence we have. You want bare bones or a place with shiny new buildings and state of the art facilities both academic and sports that competes nationally, then we have to pay. Historically college increases have been 4-6% annually going back forever. You can pay less for your kids college, just move to Texas. Is it worth it? In general I think it is because the experience and benefit goes beyond just what you major in, but yeah a tradesperson or self Ed without debt may do better financially than some college grads.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Computer science is a lot more than just knowing a language. Lots of people can write bad code. CS is about the science of solving complex computational problems so it is as much about analysis, algorithm development and implementation process as it is about then being able to write some code.

 

[upstater]

Private colleges like Yale, Wesleyan, or Connecticut College are up to$65,000 per year, so is $25,000 that bad? SUNY in New York is much more reasonable but UCONN has plunged a lot into Storrs and I am all for it. Academically they are great but they don't have the national sports prominence we have. You want bare bones or a place with shiny new buildings and state of the art facilities both academic and sports that competes nationally, then we have to pay. Historically college increases have been 4-6% annually going back forever. You can pay less for your kids college, just move to Texas. Is it worth it? In general I think it is because the experience and benefit goes beyond just what you major in, but yeah a tradesperson or self Ed without debt may do better financially than some college grads.

I don't think it's a question of bare bones vs. sports. Obviously, the research SUNYs have been building. You can't actually be a top research school with a bare bones program.

UConn is at a tipping point. It shouldn't go any further with tuition increases. From here on, you either preserve the budget or start cutting. UConn does not want to become another Vermont. And UConn shouldn't become a Michigan. The state of Michigan has a lot more people, and so other schools, so they can avoid the hazards of too high tuition by sending all the d-bags to UM.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Computer science is a lot more than just knowing a language. Lots of people can write bad code.

I don't think any reasonable person disputes either of these conclusions.
The point I was making is only that the notion that you need 4 years of college as a basis for many careers is plainly false. Two people apply for the job at Enterprise rent a car. The person with the 4 year BA degree in whatever gets the job over the person with a HS degree and no college. Certainly nobody would argue that even 1 year of college is required to work the front desk or phones at Enterprise. But history and momentum and culture and marketing have all conspired to create a society where the value of a college degree and the perceived value of going to college, at least economically, are substantially divergent.
The value in college for a huge chunk of attendees now appears to be a status symbol.

Regarding coding and computer science, I really have no idea what the value added of a 4 year degree is, but it clearly is one of the best in the country, with average starting salaries coming in at around 65-70 grand and very high placement rate.

That written, the higher end coding boot camps that run 3 months, 11 hours a day, 6 days a week boast a higher placement rate and higher starting salary than the national average for CS graduates.

So what's my point? My point is that a 4 year holistic degree that imparts broad knowledge of computer science principles, fundamentals, theories, and application is a wonderful thing. But what the numbers suggest is that the ability to sit in the seat and crank out the work is what matters when it determines what you get paid.

Traditionally, the combination of the 4 year degree, the grades, and the pedigree of the institution implied a certain ability to crank out the work. That model works well. The Cornell EE student who graduated top 10% in her class is almost a slam dunk to be a valuable worker. The community college kid who took 6 years to get a degree and averaged Cs? Not so much.

Today's world calls for a new model. I went to college/grad school for 7 years to become a lawyer. Frankly, that concept is asinine, particularly when you consider that most attorneys practice in fairly narrow avenues of law. It's more asinine when you consider that you have to pass a 2 day power test to get licensed. What's the point of the degree if it's not sufficient to prove your ability to be a lawyer? Why is there a test also?

How about this as a going forward proposal - anybody age 18 or older who can pass the bar exam can practice law. If your response is, "there'll be a lot of crappy lawyers out there," my reply would be - "you'd be shocked at how many crappy lawyers are currently out there."

Education in America is a racket. Places like Hack Reactor are starting to chip away at the foundation of the racket, which is the misguided belief that 4 years of college is the proper amount of post-high school education for, coincidentally, about 5,000 different career paths.

 

[FASTEDDY]

I don't think it's a question of bare bones vs. sports. Obviously, the research SUNYs have been building. You can't actually be a top research school with a bare bones program.

UConn is at a tipping point. It shouldn't go any further with tuition increases. From here on, you either preserve the budget or start cutting. UConn does not want to become another Vermont. And UConn shouldn't become a Michigan. The state of Michigan has a lot more people, and so other schools, so they can avoid the hazards of too high tuition by sending all the d-bags to UM.

Please clarify. What does "become another Vermont" or "shouldn't become a Michigan" mean?

I know UCONN is far superior in every way to UVM. While Michigan is one of the Public Ivies and a research juggernaut, a level that UCONN aspires to reach.

Just looking for more insight into this as this is not an area that I'm very familiar with.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

College once meant more than job training.

The whole point of a liberal arts education was to build into its students an open mind that has been rigorously challenged and humbled enough to understand how to think critically.

Those days are obviously gone - we've failed.

 

[upstater]

Please clarify. What does "become another Vermont" or "shouldn't become a Michigan" mean?

I know UCONN is far superior in every way to UVM. While Michigan is one of the Public Ivies and a research juggernaut, a level that UCONN aspires to reach.

Just looking for more insight into this as this is not an area that I'm very familiar with.

Both Vermont and Michigan charge a very high amount of tuition and both have a very rich student body.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

FYI, if u get a computer science degree and know coding well... you can pick ur job now a days because Information Security is going to be a field that will be more and more in demand

 

[Sportsman5]

Both Vermont and Michigan charge a very high amount of tuition and both have a very rich student body.

Wouldn't a reasonable solution be that UConn Storrs charges a lot higher tuition rates than other Connecticut state colleges. This gives individuals a chance at an instate education at a reasonable price if they attend anywhere except UConn Storrs, but allows UConn to become a top tier public school for those looking for the best possible education.

Let me know if this logic is flawed. You obviously know a lot more than me about how state funding works.

 

[upstater]

Wouldn't a reasonable solution be that UConn Storrs charges a lot higher tuition rates than other Connecticut state colleges. This gives individuals a chance at an instate education at a reasonable price if they attend anywhere except UConn Storrs, but allows UConn to become a top tier public school for those looking for the best possible education.

Let me know if this logic is flawed. You obviously know a lot more than me about how state funding works.

I don't think it is reasonable in the sense that UConn is the only top tier public institution in the state. This may be why U. Michigan gets away with it. You want everyone who has the credentials to have the chance at that institution. Typically, you can argue that a student that takes a yearly $5k gov't subsidized loan, then works 30 hours at $10 an hour per week for 12 weeks in summer, and 15 hours a week at the same rate during the school year (while campus is in session, which is 30 weeks), can afford college. That student makes income of $8,000 a year, and also takes out a $5k loan. That covers tuition.

When you climb above $13k tuition, you can't make that argument any more.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Is it worth it to get a degree in computer science, or should one just self teach themselves a coding language? (Im learning Java right now)

Get the degree.

Learn well the common development philosophies you are taught, and never work for a company that doesn't use one.

 

[huskypantz]

Is it worth it to get a degree in computer science, or should one just self teach themselves a coding language? (Im learning Java right now)

Like most professions, you need an "in" to get your first job. You can teach yourself but you better figure out how to create a resume to market your skills. A CS degree from UConn or any other university is worth more toward an interview. Once you're in, your skills will speak for themselves.

Don't just learn a programming language. Learn how applications are architected - software, hardware, network, security, database. And definitely don't just learn java. For example, learn SQL so you can build a java frontend with a SQL backend, etc. Once you really understand one language you can apply most of the concepts anywhere.

My undergrad degree was completely unrelated to IT. I completed a certificate program in software engineering, but initially didn't really push to move to IT because I had to take a step back in pay. I started working on my masters in health informatics and instantly got a job. I met a ton of contacts as well. I have a staff under me now, but I still do a small amount of programming work - probably 10-20% of my time. I do a lot of application architecture development, which I really enjoy.

 

[intlzncster]

Private colleges like Yale, Wesleyan, or Connecticut College are up to$65,000 per year, so is $25,000 that bad? SUNY in New York is much more reasonable but UCONN has plunged a lot into Storrs and I am all for it. Academically they are great but they don't have the national sports prominence we have. You want bare bones or a place with shiny new buildings and state of the art facilities both academic and sports that competes nationally, then we have to pay. Historically college increases have been 4-6% annually going back forever. You can pay less for your kids college, just move to Texas. Is it worth it? In general I think it is because the experience and benefit goes beyond just what you major in, but yeah a tradesperson or self Ed without debt may do better financially than some college grads.

Sports prominence should play a zero factor in college education costs. It does nothing for the student, outside of a bit of entertainment. And you can become a fan without even attending the school, at no cost.

Sports programs should be thought of as they are, a business unto themselves and a marketing arm of the school (both booster and self funded).

 

[intlzncster]

College education as a right of passage is on the ropes in the United States. The economy is garbage and getting worse and the value of a 4 year liberal arts college degree is plummeting.
There is going to be a massive, much needed contraction of colleges/universities in this country going forward, as the allure of blowing huge coin to get a degree that doesn't add much value continues to fade. There will always be a place for 4 year colleges, it just needs to be a lot smaller than it is now. Hack Reactor exemplifies the learning mechanism of the future - do your own work to get prepped, apply to get in, get in, 3 months of 11 hour day coding, close to 100% job placement making 80 grand or more.
We need to stop being so focused on paper degrees and be more focused on ability and skill to perform the job.

This ignores one of the 'originating' problems regarding the college issue, the state and quality of high school education.

Ideally, the entire high school education system needs to be revamped. High school ed has been dumbed down to such a degree, that half the goal is to score well on a multiple choice test. What students are receiving at many Universities, should be what is offered/taught in high school. A select few schools provide this, mostly expensive private schools.
There needs to be greater emphasis on creativity and problem solving, w the appropriate tools to accomplish these things. Kids are capable of incredible things, sometimes at a higher level than adults, as their minds aren't static and ossified by life.

There needs to be far more vocational and internship centric opportunities at the high school level, preferably by requirement. Real world work experience at a professional level prior to graduation.

Realistically, none of this will happen. For a litany of reasons.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Is it worth it to get a degree in computer science, or should one just self teach themselves a coding language? (Im learning Java right now)

I know others have chimed in, but I work in the industry and wanted to add my own two cents. It really depends on the person. Having the degree rarely hurts. But it won't get you hired by a good development house. There are plenty of bad programmers with degrees and vice versa. One of the best coders at my old job had a degree in Biomedical Engineering. He just decided to change careers and knew his stuff. Most good programmers will do a technical interview so they can weed out the dummies.

The degree never hurts you -- it can get your foot in the door -- but really good development houses know how to find great programmers no matter what the background. However, becoming a great programmer is about a lot more than taking online Java tutorials, too, and takes a lot of rigorous effort.

Good luck to you.

 

[TasteofUConn]

is about a lot more than taking online Java tutorials, too, and takes a lot of rigorous effort.

To be clear, are we talking about Java or Javascript? My understanding is that Java has fallen out of favor and JS is in very high demand.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

To be clear, are we talking about Java or Javascript? My understanding is that Java has fallen out of favor and JS is in very high demand.

Nope, Java is still an enormous language. Android runs on Java. And there's a million enterprise programs out there like Oracle written in Java that nobody is ever going to rewrite.

JavaScript is also in high demand for all of the web development out there and all of the frameworks available to use with it (Angular especially so).

Heck, a ton of video games are still written in C++, too. If you know your stuff, then you can really switch languages in the future.

 

[NJHusky]

http://www.courant.com/education/hc-uconn-tuition-increases-1029-20151028-story.html

Sounds like some hard choices coming down the road.

1/3rd of budget deficit met through tuition increases? The rest through cuts?

I'd say yeah, at best. If you're already in the $13.x range for tuition, then yeah, you don't want to go above 5-6% rise. AT MOST.

The spiraling cost of higher education is insane. Colleges have been raising tuition with impunity every year, regardless of inflation. It's probably the only industry that raised prices during the economic downturn. It's about time they started to look at costs. I was at a seminar yesterday and one of the speakers was a university president....he said that the lack of cost control was a major issue. He is planning to outsource all services except direct education items...professors and related staff. He said why am I employing janitors, maintenance etc. Smart guy.

 

[upstater]

The spiraling cost of higher education is insane. Colleges have been raising tuition with impunity every year, regardless of inflation. It's probably the only industry that raised prices during the economic downturn. It's about time they started to look at costs. I was at a seminar yesterday and one of the speakers was a university president....he said that the lack of cost control was a major issue. He is planning to outsource all services except direct education items...professors and related staff. He said why am I employing janitors, maintenance etc. Smart guy.

Did you read the article?

Not a costs issue.