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UChusky916

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/21/uconn-sexual-assault-complaint_n_4133713.html

Personally, I never had positive experiences with the UConn police during my time there. So the article's quotes are not surprising to me.

What I don't understand why Carolyn Luby's case is thrown in the article to fuel the fire? Seems like a different issue if you ask me. She posted something in a public forum and had to deal with the resulting circumstances. Far different than sexual assault. Seems misguided to post the two in an article together.
 
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This just in, Gloria Allred is a camera loving bozo. I takes everything she says as a lie until it is proven to be true.
 

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/21/uconn-s e xual-assault-complaint_n_4133713.html

Personally, I never had positive experiences with the UConn police during my time there. So the article's quotes are not surprising to me.

What I don't understand why Carolyn Luby's case is thrown in the article to fuel the fire? Seems like a different issue if you ask me. She posted something in a public forum and had to deal with the resulting circumstances. Far different than s e xual assault. Seems misguided to post the two in an article together.


I agree that the rape issue and the Luby issue are separate (apart from Luby's involvement in organizing the lawsuit) but you lost me with "had to deal with the resulting circumstances"? I agree that her complaints about the logo are absolutely ludicrous, but if half of what she says is true about the reactions to it, that's nothing to brush off. Horrifying stuff.
 
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Police at UConn are now far more interested in finding underage drinking/open containers. It's disgraceful. You're there to keep people safe not mindlessly bust college kids for drinking and weed.

^^This^^
I graduated in 05' and it was the same way. It's also the reason so many of the BBall players get in trouble. The UConn police are real cowboys and love to bust athletes
 
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/21/uconn-s e xual-assault-complaint_n_4133713.html

Personally, I never had positive experiences with the UConn police during my time there. So the article's quotes are not surprising to me.

What I don't understand why Carolyn Luby's case is thrown in the article to fuel the fire? Seems like a different issue if you ask me. She posted something in a public forum and had to deal with the resulting circumstances. Far different than s e xual assault. Seems misguided to post the two in an article together.

Remarks such as those that were made constitute harassing speech. There's language in the student code against that. Students have been thrown out for saying less. You don't make death threats and sexual assault comments because someone wrote a bad article. "We won't rape you." etc. All that may be swept under the rug, but what can't be condoned is this: Herbst remained silent, and Luby said one school official told her, "That's kind of the risk you run when you publish something on the Internet."
 
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If it was clear that the guy committed sexual assault/ rape, than he should be kicked out for good without question and be in jail. If he was never convicted of a crime, than it's tough for the University to kick him out if the law decided there was not enough evidence. Unless I'm missing major information, than it seems this is a pretty logical conclusion that most would agree with.

When it comes to the harassment of this other girl, than I'm completely confused. When a celebrity gets harrassed, followed by the media, made fun of publicly, than we put it on E news or in some magazine and sell it for a ton of money. Clearly people love this and eat it up because they spend a lot of time and money making sure we continue to do it. However, when someone who is not deemed a celebrity voluntarily steps into the spot light and receives back lash from it than it is harassment and is grounds for a law suit? I must be completely missing something in this case.
 
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I must be completely missing something in this case.

Student code of conduct. Though I will note that death threats are also illegal outside universities.

By the way, universities have other means to deal with this issue of the alleged rape. Sleeping with a drunk person, for instance, may be against the code of conduct.
 

nomar

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If it was clear that the guy committed s e xual assault/ rape, than he should be kicked out for good without question and be in jail. If he was never convicted of a crime, than it's tough for the University to kick him out if the law decided there was not enough evidence. Unless I'm missing major information, than it seems this is a pretty logical conclusion that most would agree with.

When it comes to the harassment of this other girl, than I'm completely confused. When a celebrity gets harrassed, followed by the media, made fun of publicly, than we put it on E news or in some magazine and sell it for a ton of money. Clearly people love this and eat it up because they spend a lot of time and money making sure we continue to do it. However, when someone who is not deemed a celebrity voluntarily steps into the spot light and receives back lash from it than it is harassment and is grounds for a law suit? I must be completely missing something in this case.


You're missing a lot.

Your first paragraph seems to assume that school security and officials are the same as actual police and prosecutors. They're not. They're quite interested in keeping the school's name out of the papers and much, much less interested in justice. And they're not "the law." They're rent-a-cops and politicians. A big part of the problem is that actual rape victims are under the same wrong impression. They don't go straight to the police, like they should.

Your second paragraph wrongly assumes that celebrities don't have or take legal recourse when they are physically threatened. They do that all the time. They often have bodyguards so people don't come up to them and threaten them directly, but rest assured threats are monitored and responded to. I guarantee you that celebrities' security soaks up a LOT more tax dollars than regular women who complain about being threatened or stalked.

The complete lack of empathy in your comment for the claimed victims is striking.
 
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You're missing a lot.

Your first paragraph seems to assume that school security and officials are the same as actual police and prosecutors. They're not. They're quite interested in keeping the school's name out of the papers and much, much less interested in justice. And they're not "the law." They're rent-a-cops and politicians. A big part of the problem is that actual rape victims are under the same wrong impression. They don't go straight to the police, like they should.

Your second paragraph wrongly assumes that celebrities don't have or take legal recourse when they are physically threatened. They do that all the time. They often have bodyguards so people don't come up to them and threaten them directly, but rest assured threats are monitored and responded to. I guarantee you that celebrities' security soaks up a LOT more tax dollars than regular women who complain about being threatened or stalked.

The complete lack of empathy in your comment for the claimed victims is striking.

I'm not disagreeing with the general points you're making but university police are pretty real. Storrs police have no authority on campus. The UConn police are the authorized force on campus, and are recognized as such by the state. It's not the jurisdiction of local police. That being said, this doesn't mean there isn't a conflict of interest. This came up at PSU as well. The man brought up on charges for the Sandusky thing was a VP of Campus Police.
 

nomar

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Thanks for the clarification, upstater. I guess the authority must vary state to state and also college to college but it seems like it's generally as you say.
 
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Student code of conduct. Though I will note that death threats are also illegal outside universities.

By the way, universities have other means to deal with this issue of the alleged rape. Sleeping with a drunk person, for instance, may be against the code of conduct.

Sleeping with a drunk person in the state of CT is legally rape...
 
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The problem now a days is cameras. Particularly cameras on cops vehicles. Before the addition of cameras cops could pull you over and take thinks into consideration. Like poor out your dime bag. But now they are recording everything. Which puts them at risk. Glad I was a dumb as kid in the 80s.
 
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You're missing a lot.

Your first paragraph seems to assume that school security and officials are the same as actual police and prosecutors. They're not. They're quite interested in keeping the school's name out of the papers and much, much less interested in justice. And they're not "the law." They're rent-a-cops and politicians. A big part of the problem is that actual rape victims are under the same wrong impression. They don't go straight to the police, like they should.

Your second paragraph wrongly assumes that celebrities don't have or take legal recourse when they are physically threatened. They do that all the time. They often have bodyguards so people don't come up to them and threaten them directly, but rest assured threats are monitored and responded to. I guarantee you that celebrities' security soaks up a LOT more tax dollars than regular women who complain about being threatened or stalked.

The complete lack of empathy in your comment for the claimed victims is striking.

It's not lack of empathy for the victim. It's equal empathy for someone who is accused, as well as the accuser. Many times in society people are assumed guilty before it is proven. People's lives are ruined because of accusations. If you automatically give the accuser the benefit of the doubt, than that in my opinion is a complete lack of empathy for the accused.

A lot of what I am referring to with actors, athletes, and politicians etc. is not direct contact with them. The vast majority of criticism, heckling, and harassing remarks are made through the internet, newspapers, TV etc. If you put yourself into the spotlight with a very strong opinions that are probably not the majority opinion, than you must assume that there will be backlash and sometimes it can be outrageously negative. This has only been amplified by social media and the internet. In this situation maybe certain individuals have crossed the line and action needs to be taken for her safety. That is for a judge or jury to decide and not just from hearing one person's side of the story. It should be a safe and fair environment for all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If this women thinks that a logo can send a certain message, than that is fine for her to say. If others say that she is absolutely crazy for her opinion, than that is fine as well. If someones safety and well being are in direct threat, than action should be taken. If not, than people can have their opinions, make fun of each other, argue etc.

I am being fair and equal to all sides. You have made strong statements to one side like calling the cops "rent-a-cops". Also I would like to see proof that security for celebrities takes up a LOT more money than for everyone else who complains about being stalked or threatened. That seems statistically unlikely given the amount of celebrities compared to the hundreds of millions of other people in the U.S. and billions on the planet. It's striking how you have attacked me yet you yourself appear to be lacking in empathy and facts from what you have written.
 

nomar

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It's not lack of empathy for the victim. It's equal empathy for someone who is accused, as well as the accuser. Many times in society people are assumed guilty before it is proven. People's lives are ruined because of accusations. If you automatically give the accuser the benefit of the doubt, than that in my opinion is a complete lack of empathy for the accused.

That's a weird way to put it. I certainly believe in innocent-until-proven-guilty, but we're talking about actual rape victims here, unless you actually think that all of these women -- or all women -- are liars. We're talking about how colleges treat women who say they've been raped. And colleges treat them like crap. How you proceeded to use that as a launching pad for complaining about men being unjustly accused (which of course happens sometimes) is beyond me. Well, it's not beyond me. Because people do it. And being unfairly accused of a crime is not akin to being raped. Sorry.

A lot of what I am referring to with actors, athletes, and politicians etc. is not direct contact with them. The vast majority of criticism, heckling, and harassing remarks are made through the internet, newspapers, TV etc. If you put yourself into the spotlight with a very strong opinions that are probably not the majority opinion, than you must assume that there will be backlash and sometimes it can be outrageously negative. This has only been amplified by social media and the internet. In this situation maybe certain individuals have crossed the line and action needs to be taken for her safety. That is for a judge or jury to decide and not just from hearing one person's side of the story. It should be a safe and fair environment for all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If this women thinks that a logo can send a certain message, than that is fine for her to say. If others say that she is absolutely crazy for her opinion, than that is fine as well. If someones safety and well being are in direct threat, than action should be taken. If not, than people can have their opinions, make fun of each other, argue etc.

OK, well I was talking about this woman's actual experiences with people personally harassing her, so it seems like a non sequitur.

I am being fair and equal to all sides.

If you say so. I haven't heard a lick of consideration for rape victims. Which should have been the first thing out of your mouth.

You have made strong statements to one side like calling the cops "rent-a-cops".

A poor choice of words on my part. But I stand on what I said about how university employees handle allegations of sexual assault.

Also I would like to see proof that security for celebrities takes up a LOT more money than for everyone else who complains about being stalked or threatened. That seems statistically unlikely given the amount of celebrities compared to the hundreds of millions of other people in the U.S. and billions on the planet.

As soon as I wrote that I realized it was probably hyperbolic but I left it because the per capita expense is certainly a LOT higher. So I think my point still stands. Celebrities may have more written about them, but they're also well protected. Whereas a college student has no protection.

It's striking how you have attacked me yet you yourself appear to be lacking in empathy and facts from what you have written.

That's pretty funny. As a man, I don't have a problem feeling sorry for guys who are unjustly accused of rape. But it takes a real man to speak out on behalf of women.
 
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I don't get what you're complaining about. I don't see anything in that article to indicate that the people who threatened Luby were punished in any way whatsoever. Brandon Jacobs got a clownish death threat on twitter this weekend. The Giants got the police involved immediately. Were they being unfair to do so? After all, it comes with the territory, no? He's a public figure so doesn't he ask for his life and the lives of his family to be threatened?

More broadly, I don't get what the big deal was with her open letter to Herbst. I went back and read it again and I don't see the phrase "rape culture" in it anywhere, unless there's a different letter I'm missing. It seems like she made a clumsy attempt to tie the re-branding to the misplaced priorities of the UConn administration, but that's about it.
 
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That's a weird way to put it. I certainly believe in innocent-until-proven-guilty, but we're talking about actual rape victims here, unless you actually think that all of these women -- or all women -- are liars. We're talking about how colleges treat women who say they've been raped. And colleges treat them like crap. How you proceeded to use that as a launching pad for complaining about men being unjustly accused (which of course happens sometimes) is beyond me. Well, it's not beyond me. Because people do it. And being unfairly accused of a crime is not akin to being raped. Sorry.


OK, well I was talking about this woman's actual experiences with people personally harassing her, so it seems like a non sequitur.


If you say so. I haven't heard a lick of consideration for rape victims. Which should have been the first thing out of your mouth.

A poor choice of words on my part. But I stand on what I said about how university employees handle allegations of s e xual assault.

As soon as I wrote that I realized it was probably hyperbolic but I left it because the per capita expense is certainly a LOT higher. So I think my point still stands. Celebrities may have more written about them, but they're also well protected. Whereas a college student has no protection.

That's pretty funny. As a man, I don't have a problem feeling sorry for guys who are unjustly accused of rape. But it takes a real man to speak out on behalf of women.

I don't think that all are liars, but people's perceptions of what happens and what actually happens can be two different things. If the women is drunk or actually passes out in a given night, than peoples perceptions vs reality have the potential to be changed even more. there are always two sides to every story.

To say that I haven't given a lick of consideration to rape victims is absolutely outrageous. The fact that you say that to try to discredit my argument is not cool. I have a ton of empathy for rape victims as evidenced by my original posts. Just because I think that the justice system should decide things instead of automatically assuming that the man is at fault does not make me have no consideration for rape victims. As has been pointed out by others about this situation, women do initiate sex as well with men who have been drinking and do not want to have sex with the women. The question becomes in these situation is what is the difference between intent vs actually committing the act. Most women have intent, but do not end up committing the crime because they are physically weaker, but men end up following through with their intentions because they are physically stronger. This is clearly up for debate. I have been in a situation where there is intent, but no act was committed because of physical differences. Does that give the women a free pass because it was just intent?

In conclusion. It takes a real man to not jump to conclusions and be level headed enough to see all sides of the story before defending one side or another.

I am done arguing with you because you have proven multiple times to be irrational and biased.
 

nomar

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I was going to let this go, but then you went and unleashed some doozies.

I don't think that all are liars, but people's perceptions of what happens and what actually happens can be two different things. If the women is drunk or actually passes out in a given night, than peoples perceptions vs reality have the potential to be changed even more. there are always two sides to every story.

If men don't have sex with extremely drunk or unconscious women, this isn't a problem. There are certainly gray areas, but most rapes don't fall into that category. And your forced moral equivalence between rapists and lying women is just bizarre.

To say that I haven't given a lick of consideration to rape victims is absolutely outrageous. The fact that you say that to try to discredit my argument is not cool. I have a ton of empathy for rape victims as evidenced by my original posts.

Where? I went back and looked. The part where you said RAPISTS should be expelled? That ton of empathy?

Just because I think that the justice system should decide things instead of automatically assuming that the man is at fault does not make me have no consideration for rape victims.

Of course not. I obviously believe the same thing. That's not the issue.

As has been pointed out by others about this situation, women do initiate s e x as well with men who have been drinking and do not want to have s e x with the women. The question becomes in these situation is what is the difference between intent vs actually committing the act. Most women have intent, but do not end up committing the crime because they are physically weaker, but men end up following through with their intentions because they are physically stronger. This is clearly up for debate. I have been in a situation where there is intent, but no act was committed because of physical differences. Does that give the women a free pass because it was just intent?

This is so bizarre I don't even know what to say. A man who a woman throws herself on unsuccessfully ISN'T A VICTIM if nothing happened and he has no emotional trauma. A woman who is raped IS A VICTIM. Yes, women are weaker, which is why they're usually the VICTIM of sexual assault. (Not always, of course -- men CAN be raped by women.)

In conclusion. It takes a real man to not jump to conclusions and be level headed enough to see all sides of the story before defending one side or another.

It's funny that you think you're being impartial on this. I'm an attorney. I understand how the criminal justice system is supposed to work and how it does work. I understand mens rea aka criminal intent. I believe that one wrongly convicted person trumps 10 guilty people going free. With all that said, as a society we do not do enough to protect women and punish rapists. And BS rationales like the ones I've seen here ("two sides to every story," "men are falsely accused," "who's to say what happened in the woman was drunk") are a big reason why. On their face they are not false. In practice, however, they are used by those in power to prevent justice from being served.

I am done arguing with you because you have proven multiple times to be irrational and biased.

Hahaha.
 
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It's not lack of empathy for the victim. It's equal empathy for someone who is accused, as well as the accuser. Many times in society people are assumed guilty before it is proven. People's lives are ruined because of accusations. If you automatically give the accuser the benefit of the doubt, than that in my opinion is a complete lack of empathy for the accused.

A lot of what I am referring to with actors, athletes, and politicians etc. is not direct contact with them. The vast majority of criticism, heckling, and harassing remarks are made through the internet, newspapers, TV etc. If you put yourself into the spotlight with a very strong opinions that are probably not the majority opinion, than you must assume that there will be backlash and sometimes it can be outrageously negative. This has only been amplified by social media and the internet. In this situation maybe certain individuals have crossed the line and action needs to be taken for her safety. That is for a judge or jury to decide and not just from hearing one person's side of the story. It should be a safe and fair environment for all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If this women thinks that a logo can send a certain message, than that is fine for her to say. If others say that she is absolutely crazy for her opinion, than that is fine as well. If someones safety and well being are in direct threat, than action should be taken. If not, than people can have their opinions, make fun of each other, argue etc.

I am being fair and equal to all sides. You have made strong statements to one side like calling the cops "rent-a-cops". Also I would like to see proof that security for celebrities takes up a LOT more money than for everyone else who complains about being stalked or threatened. That seems statistically unlikely given the amount of celebrities compared to the hundreds of millions of other people in the U.S. and billions on the planet. It's striking how you have attacked me yet you yourself appear to be lacking in empathy and facts from what you have written.

I think they stated the accused in this case did it again and was tossed out of school.
 
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Why did they get Gloria Allred? Was Al Sharton tied up?

These are serious charges, but having them handled by a political hack and proven liar like Allred should make everyone suspicious.
 
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Why did they get Gloria Allred? Was Al Sharton tied up?

These are serious charges, but having them handled by a political hack and proven liar like Allred should make everyone suspicious.

Probably because she works for free.
 
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