OT ~ UB fires head coach Jeff Quinn | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT ~ UB fires head coach Jeff Quinn

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upstater said:
They were 6-2 last year in the MAC. They were competing for the MAC championship until their last loss to a very good Bowling Green team. This year they are 1-2.

In this year and last, they are 7-4 in the MAC.

They should obviously end the program. Any program that is the catalyst for your $25m in losses per year should be ended.
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Good use of selective endpoints.

As for ending it that's a different discussion. Has nothing to do with firing an underperforming coach.
 
whaler11 said:
Good use of selective endpoints.

As for ending it that's a different discussion. Has nothing to do with firing an underperforming coach.
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It has everything to do with firing the best coach you've had. His record in the MAC the last 2 years has been the best record they've had. The monetary losses and the future projection of the program all work into the planning. Selective endpoints? You're the one emphasizing what he did in his first couple of years rather than the last two years when they've fielded their most competitive teams. You couldn't be more wrong on this one.
 
upstater said:
It has everything to do with firing the best coach you've had. His record in the MAC the last 2 years has been the best record they've had. The monetary losses and the future projection of the program all work into the planning. Selective endpoints? You're the one emphasizing what he did in his first couple of years rather than the last two years when they've fielded their most competitive teams. You couldn't be more wrong on this one.
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I took his entire record. That he had a good season before bottoming out again is nice but you're fifth year shouldn't be a step back it should be the first year where you own everything.

And the wronger you tell me I am the more confident I am they made the right call.
 
whaler11 said:
I took his entire record. That he had a good season before bottoming out again is nice but you're fifth year shouldn't be a step back it should be the first year where you own everything.

And the wronger you tell me I am the more confident I am they made the right call.
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You're easily fooled.
 
upstater said:
You're easily fooled.
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Yes I'm fooled by a bad team firing an underperforming coach. That's a tricky one. No way they can improve on 21-36 and losses to Eastern Michigan and Army.

They are crazy to think that isn't their ceiling in the worst conference in the country.

Competing with directional Michigans, Akron, Miami... that's crazy.
 
whaler11 said:
Yes I'm fooled by a bad team firing an underperforming coach. That's a tricky one. No way they can improve on 21-36 and losses to Eastern Michigan and Army.

They are crazy to think that isn't their ceiling in the worst conference in the country.

Competing with directional Michigans, Akron, Miami... that's crazy.
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It's a guy burnishing a resume so he can flea a no-win position as soon as possible. He fooled them, he fooled you.
 
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Look at the facts.

In the 4 years before Turner Gill, UB was 5-41 overall and 4-28 in the MAC. In addition, since UB joined FBS in 1999, they had won only 9 games total in seven years.

In his 4 years, Gill was 20-30 overall and 14-18 in the MAC. If you take out his first year, he was 18-20 overall and 13-11 in the MAC. Basically, Gill turned UB into a mediocre MAC program from a doormat.

Clearly, Quinn inherited a better program than Gill and he was 17-33 overall in his first 4 years as well as 12-20 in the MAC. This was year 5 of the Quinn era and he has two bad losses this year. Quinn did not take the foundation that Gill built and improve the program.

People, this is the MAC, not the SEC. UB should be able to become an upper tier program in the MAC. Even if you don't think they can, shouldn't they aspire to be a top team in the MAC? Quinn was not making it happen, so the AD decided to make a change.
 
upstater said:
It's a guy burnishing a resume so he can flea a no-win position as soon as possible. He fooled them, he fooled you.
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If he hires a better coach and the program improves who cares what his motivation is?
 
whaler11 said:
I took his entire record. That he had a good season before bottoming out again is nice but you're fifth year shouldn't be a step back it should be the first year where you own everything.

And the wronger you tell me I am the more confident I am they made the right call.
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I would never let you run a start-up ... nor advise capital sources to invest with you.

You lack the vision of the entire Program/Operation & the trend line. You are very wrong on Jeff Quinn. I agree with whomever says that there is something else going on here. (and I admit ... I have no idea how you lose to Eastern Michigan ... did not watch the game) The 2013 Buffalo Blue were far & away better than the 8 other Buffalo teams I have watched since 2000. And, they were solid in many ways. You can't pull the plug at 3-4 ... with MAC games to go ... in a year after he was competing for a Conference Championship. As for the first three years ... DID YOU SEE WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE EARLY LAST DECADE?
 
UConnJim said:
Look at the facts.

In the 4 years before Turner Gill, UB was 5-41 overall and 4-28 in the MAC. In addition, since UB joined FBS in 1999, they had won only 9 games total in seven years.

In his 4 years, Gill was 20-30 overall and 14-18 in the MAC. If you take out his first year, he was 18-20 overall and 13-11 in the MAC. Basically, Gill turned UB into a mediocre MAC program from a doormat.

Clearly, Quinn inherited a better program than Gill and he was 17-33 overall in his first 4 years as well as 12-20 in the MAC. This was year 5 of the Quinn era and he has two bad losses this year. Quinn did not take the foundation that Gill built and improve the program.

People, this is the MAC, not the SEC. UB should be able to become an upper tier program in the MAC. Even if you don't think they can, shouldn't they aspire to be a top team in the MAC? Quinn was not making it happen, so the AD decided to make a change.
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Disagree

(btw) upstater & I are both upstate New York guys. I think we know better than either of you how to build that Program and the recruiting/talent/academics of that School. I think firing Quinn is outrageous (lacking any evidence of impropriety).
 
I don't think there's any back story here either other than one resume. Terry Pegula is building two 4000 seat hockey rinks in Buffalo in a billion dollar entertainment center, to try to bring world class hockey tourneys to town (they already came once, he's betting they come again and again). The rink was offered for free use. Rejected. Could have unloaded an albatross and built the top hockey program in the entire USA. Instead... this happens.
 
Pudge said:
Disagree

(btw) upstater & I are both upstate New York guys. I think we know better than either of you how to build that Program and the recruiting/talent/academics of that School. I think firing Quinn is outrageous (lacking any evidence of impropriety).
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You may be correct, but I think the UB AD is aiming higher than mediocre in the MAC.

Personally, I think recruiting is the issue for Quinn at UB. Gill brought in more players from Texas and Florida to quickly improve the team. In 2009, Gill brought in 8 kids from Texas and Florida (including Khalil Mack and Branden Oliver) and 2 kids from South Carolina. In 2011 and 2012, Quinn brought in a total of 2 players from Florida and none from Texas.
 
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Pudge said:
I would never let you run a start-up ... nor advise capital sources to invest with you.

You lack the vision of the entire Program/Operation & the trend line. You are very wrong on Jeff Quinn. I agree with whomever says that there is something else going on here. (and I admit ... I have no idea how you lose to Eastern Michigan ... did not watch the game) The 2013 Buffalo Blue were far & away better than the 8 other Buffalo teams I have watched since 2000. And, they were solid in many ways. You can't pull the plug at 3-4 ... with MAC games to go ... in a year after he was competing for a Conference Championship. As for the first three years ... DID YOU SEE WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE EARLY LAST DECADE?
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You should warn my employer. They have no issues.

First, I keep much closer tabs on the programs around FBS than anyone here. I watched Texas State and ULL last night for God's sake. I don't need any lectures on trend lines or where teams have been and where they are going.

If you don't think you've got the right guy you pull the plug. It does not matter if you are 3-4 by beating two FCS teams.

It's year five and they stink.

I love the Boneyard. If someone came here and said UConn should be happy with some level of mediocrity you'd blast them back to from where they came... But a guy at Buffalo wins 35% of his games and is losing to the dregs of FBS in year 5 and they are making some huge mistake.

I saw what UConn looked like early last decade SHOULD WE HAVE ACCEPTED PAUL PASQUALONI??????!!?!?!

Maybe Buffalo can't do better than Jeff Quinn. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try.
 
Pudge said:
Disagree

(btw) upstater & I are both upstate New York guys. I think we know better than either of you how to build that Program and the recruiting/talent/academics of that School. I think firing Quinn is outrageous (lacking any evidence of impropriety).
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Ok then everyone who doesn't live in Connecticut should defer to the residents on UConn opinions.
 
Whaler ... your first mistake: was not understanding the history of the UB Program. Quinn, following Gill's lead, has markedly improved everything about that program. Their 1998-2006 period was horrid. Their Athletics were at Central Connecticut level.

upstater is a college professor and knows UB extraordinarily well. I have been an adjunct Professor in the SUNY system and my Dad was a college president. You make this broad statement that you know every FBS program better than all rest of us and that instantly gets me smirking. How is that possible? I am studying the enrollment patterns of these schools for a living - I do student housing investment - and I have read a vast amount on Buffalo. I know that UB has HUGE ideas on growth. Like go from 24 to 30 ... or double its size. It is AAU. It has the land and the community backing. It's potential? Far beyond all of the MAC schools academically!

This is another reason the Conference Realignment and Power 5 suck. It is entirely possible that UB far outpaces Syracuse. The SUNY Polytechnic initiative (started at UAlbany) has begun a huge research commitment at UB. This school could be a powerhouse ... and that also is sports. The Cartel doesn't allow that; and its effect is beyond football.

My conclusion is that AD White thinks UB has far higher arc than they have had. Quinn is a solid MAC coach and would be competitive for quite some time; he did nothing (particularly not losing to Eastern Michigan) to warrant this hook. But, White has his eye on a Big Program. And, this is a glimpse of a guy that wants to re-position his Program into a different path.
 
Pudge said:
Whaler ... your first mistake: was not understanding the history of the UB Program. Quinn, following Gill's lead, has markedly improved everything about that program. Their 1998-2006 period was horrid. Their Athletics were at Central Connecticut level.

upstater is a college professor and knows UB extraordinarily well. I have been an adjunct Professor in the SUNY system and my Dad was a college president. You make this broad statement that you know every FBS program better than all rest of us and that instantly gets me smirking. How is that possible? I am studying the enrollment patterns of these schools for a living - I do student housing investment - and I have read a vast amount on Buffalo. I know that UB has HUGE ideas on growth. Like go from 24 to 30 ... or double its size. It is AAU. It has the land and the community backing. It's potential? Far beyond all of the MAC schools academically!

This is another reason the Conference Realignment and Power 5 suck. It is entirely possible that UB far outpaces Syracuse. The SUNY Polytechnic initiative (started at UAlbany) has begun a huge research commitment at UB. This school could be a powerhouse ... and that also is sports. The Cartel doesn't allow that; and its effect is beyond football.

My conclusion is that AD White thinks UB has far higher arc than they have had. Quinn is a solid MAC coach and would be competitive for quite some time; he did nothing (particularly not losing to Eastern Michigan) to warrant this hook. But, White has his eye on a Big Program. And, this is a glimpse of a guy that wants to re-position his Program into a different path.
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I know the history of the UB program. The arc is clear when you are in year five and losing to dregs.

And you can smirk if you like but I know what's going on in football at these rinky dink G5 programs. None of that other crap matters relative to firing an underperforming football coach.

For a guy who is constantly talking about grandiose ideas and start up mentality - you talk up Buffalo's potential and then come to the conclusion they should be happy winning 35% of their games and not attempt to improve their football program. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
 
Are we going to get a Jeff Quinn Thread to 3 pages? I am doing my part.
 
Just chipping in here. Seems like a strange firing to me, if there isn't something else immediately apparent then the AD is probably an idiot. Buffalo never looked better, but these MAC teams seem to have really drastic swings in performance from year to year and they seem inconsistent.
 
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whaler11 said:
I know the history of the UB program. The arc is clear when you are in year five and losing to dregs.

And you can smirk if you like but I know what's going on in football at these rinky dink G5 programs. None of that other crap matters relative to firing an underperforming football coach.

For a guy who is constantly talking about grandiose ideas and start up mentality - you talk up Buffalo's potential and then come to the conclusion they should be happy winning 35% of their games and not attempt to improve their football program. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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MAC teams are never consistent, unless they are consistently bad. I don't think you can look at a five year arc with a MAC school side by side with a school from a bigger G5 or P5 conference. It's not apples to apples.
 
It's the bye week ... we don't have a lot of Whitmer v Boyle to discuss. Why not discuss this UB firing?

HOWEVER ... if you really got a guy a little better than Quinn, don't you run into the RISK of the MAC. The league clearly has an up & down to as the Coaches that do well are grabbed by Illinois, NC State, Wake Forest etc. A clear path. So you want to go 8-5 to 9-4 to something better; but, you are on your path to losing that Coach and total build in another direction. Usually.
 
So you can't hire a good coach because he will get poached.

Why is that any different at UConn?
 
whaler11 said:
So you can't hire a good coach because he will get poached.

Why is that any different at UConn?
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The difference is the pay. Quinn was making what at UB? 400K,? Diaco got four times that. When Diaco got hired his contract/pay was real close to Dabo Swinney's down at Clemson. Sweeny has since gotten a huge raise, and sure upper level P5 schools can poach our coach, but a successful UConn fball coach would be a fool to leave for wake forest or Kansas job where the pay is probably similar but the competition is much greater.
 
noeynox said:
The difference is the pay. Quinn was making what at UB? 400K,? Diaco got four times that. When Diaco got hired his contract/pay was real close to Dabo Swinney's down at Clemson. Sweeny has since gotten a huge raise, and sure upper level P5 schools can poach our coach, but a successful UConn fball coach would be a fool to leave for wake forest or Kansas job where the pay is probably similar but the competition is much greater.
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Nobody is passing up legitimate P5 jobs to stay in the AAC. Buffalo might lose their coach to every P5 team. UConn would lose their coach to every P5 team except a handful.

Had UConn been in the market a year earlier do you really think they would have gotten Clawson over Wake? That seems pretty doubtful.
 
whaler11 said:
Nobody is passing up legitimate P5 jobs to stay in the AAC. Buffalo might lose their coach to every P5 team. UConn would lose their coach to every P5 team except a handful.

Had UConn been in the market a year earlier do you really think they would have gotten Clawson over Wake? That seems pretty doubtful.
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So you are saying Ollie only stayed because no P5 program wanted him?
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
So you are saying Ollie only stayed because no P5 program wanted him?
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I thought we were talking about football?

I almost added a line about an end of the road guy like O'Leary or an alumnus - but figured people were bright enough to realize there are
exceptions.

This coming from the guy who wants to eliminate the football program is ironic though.
 
whaler11 said:
Nobody is passing up legitimate P5 jobs to stay in the AAC. Buffalo might lose their coach to every P5 team. UConn would lose their coach to every P5 team except a handful.

Had UConn been in the market a year earlier do you really think they would have gotten Clawson over Wake? That seems pretty doubtful.
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UConn is in a unique spot where the pay will likely be better than the low tier p5 jobs.....for now. Eventually that gulf may widen too much but I think it will be much harder for to win at wake in the acc than at uconn in the American.
 
noeynox said:
UConn is in a unique spot where the pay will likely be better than the low tier p5 jobs.....for now. Eventually that gulf may widen too much but I think it will be much harder for to win at wake in the acc than at uconn in the American.
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Wake is paying Clawson 2.25 million. Duke is paying Cutcliffe 2.25 million. Washington State is paying Leach 2.5 million.

It's harder to win at Tennessee in the SEC than it is to win at UConn in the AAC.

It's harder to win at UCLA in the PAC 12 than it is to win at UConn in the AAC.

It's harder to win at Virginia in the ACC than it is to win at UConn in the AAC.

It's harder to win at every P5 job than it is to win at UConn as long as it's in the AAC.

If the job being more challenging would discourage coaches from leaving no one would leave the MAC or Sun Belt for bigger jobs.

Just like Skip Holtz could win at East Carolina and wash out at USF then go back to being good at LA Tech... It's harder for Willie Taggert to win at USF than it was at Western Kentucky.

This is why Nick Saban dominates in the SEC and was a joke in the NFL. Rick Pitino? John Calipari?
 
Again though, Mac money isn't life changing money. What uconn is paying is. So if you're succesful at uconn do you leave for a modest pay raise where it will be much harder to win? I don't know if going to Iowa state for comparable money is a wise career move.
 
noeynox said:
Again though, Mac money isn't life changing money. What uconn is paying is. So if you're succesful at uconn do you leave for a modest pay raise where it will be much harder to win? I don't know if going to Iowa state for comparable money is a wise career move.
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Yes for the next handful of years UConn can match the money the lowest P5 programs will pay. So they wouldn't lose a coach to a half dozen teams.

If UConn is still in the AAC 5 years from now they aren't going to be able to come close to what Duke or Iowa State or Wake or Wazzu is paying.

So I guess that is an advantage. If UConn has a really good coach they may not lose him to Kansas or Vanderbilt. So maybe they find that perfect sweet spot - but that would mean he's a lesser coach than Edsall.
 
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