OT: The Sopranos 20th Anniverary

[Guapo]

Television started in the 1950's, and there were only maybe 3-4 truly great dramas produced before the Sopranos. The Twilight Zone, ER, and Hill Street Blues are the only network TV shows before the Sopranos that I would consider "great". Some of the others that were very good, such as Twin Peaks and Freaks and Geeks, had very limited runs. Twin Peaks was essentially an extended miniseries and Freaks and Geeks failed miserably during its run. Other well reviewed shows, like My So Called Life, could not get nearly enough of an audience to survive. Some of the best shows from the first 40 years of television such as Star Trek: Next Generation, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, were syndicated or on secondary networks. Network television was not a great platform for high quality dramas.

The Sopranos changed all that, and began the golden age of prestige television. I believe the West Wing lasted as long as it did despite its high cost and mediocre ratings in a large part because NBC wanted a prestige drama to compete with the Sopranos. Cable channels like FX and AMC took off because the Sopranos showed that there was a market for high quality, niche television. There is a direct line from the Sopranos to Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Shield and Fargo.

agreed. If you want to continue the Beatles analogy; those shows are like Elvis, Buddy Holly, The Everly Brothers etc. but the Sopranos showed the true extent and depth of what a TV show could be.

the best Mad Men episodes are the ones that are like the Twilight Zone

 

[Waquoit]

St. Elsewhere a great show, it featured Christine Pickles!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Where would NYPD Blue and Law & Order fit in this construct?

NYPD Blue is the only cop show I ever watched. I suppose it was probably derivative of Hill Street Blues, but I never watched that show.

I can't stand the Law & Order franchise, but my wife can watch any iteration, anytime, any where. And it is one show that I think is always on at least one channel at any time of day.

LA Law probably deserves some props, too, but I never watched that, either.

I am not saying all TV sucked before the Sopranos. Law & Order had some great episodes, but it had a lot of filler episodes too. NYPD was good, I wouldn't consider it great. Every episode followed the same arc, and there was no bigger story.

There was also a lot of bad TV. The prime time soaps were bad. Aaron Spelling had like 5 shows on TV at once at one point, and they were all terrible. Treacle like the Waltons, Kojak and Baretta were regularly nominated for best drama in the 70's. TV dramas got better in the 80's with shows like Fame and St. Elsewhere, but even those shows don't age well and certainly don't measure up to today's TV. Miami Vice started off great, and then jumped a blue whale of stupidity. That show will go down as the worst self destruction by a top show in history.

An example of how good TV has become is a show like Halt and Catch Fire, which is artistically excellent. In its run from 2014 to 2017, it only got nominated for one minor Emmy (Main Title Design), and I can't point to an Emmy it should have gotten. It was a great show, but there were better shows every year.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Comedies didn't have the same problem. There was a lot of bad TV in the 70's and 80's such as Different Strokes and Facts of Life, but shows like All in the Family and The Jeffersons still hold up. Mash was a little preachy and let its on the set issues effect it creatively. Mary Tyler Moore is still relevant 50 years later. The Odd Couple is still funny too. Sanford and Son holds up mostly because Redd Foxx was really that good.

Buffalo Bill was one of the funniest shows to ever be on TV, and I think the Larry Sanders Show basically ripped off the whole premise.

 

[Waquoit]

Buffalo Bill was one of the funniest shows to ever be on TV...

I'd like to revisit this sometime. It was hyped when it came out but I remember being stunned by the lack of laughs. There was a funny bit involving a runaway piano but that was it.

 

[Kolumbo]

I am not saying all TV sucked before the Sopranos. Law & Order had some great episodes, but it had a lot of filler episodes too. NYPD was good, I wouldn't consider it great. Every episode followed the same arc, and there was no bigger story.

There was also a lot of bad TV. The prime time soaps were bad. Aaron Spelling had like 5 shows on TV at once at one point, and they were all terrible. Treacle like the Waltons, Kojak and Baretta were regularly nominated for best drama in the 70's. TV dramas got better in the 80's with shows like Fame and St. Elsewhere, but even those shows don't age well and certainly don't measure up to today's TV. Miami Vice started off great, and then jumped a blue whale of stupidity. That show will go down as the worst self destruction by a top show in history.

An example of how good TV has become is a show like Halt and Catch Fire, which is artistically excellent. In its run from 2014 to 2017, it only got nominated for one minor Emmy (Main Title Design), and I can't point to an Emmy it should have gotten. It was a great show, but there were better shows every year.

Interesting analysis. I was wondering when you would get to Miami Vice but before cable I didn't watch shows as regularly. Cheers was a great sitcom.

How about, and I had to look this up because I was too young to remember, The NBC Mystery Movie series. Good stuff. And some great stuff.

The NBC Mystery Movie - Wikipedia

 

[Chin Diesel]

Sopranos cast doing a Letterman Top 10.

ALL OUR FAVORITES | ALL OUR FAVORITES | By No Rats | Facebook

ALL OUR FAVORITES

fb.watch

 

[nelsonmuntz]

In Season 6. The acting is better than I remember, even Robert Iler.

Edit: Paulie annoying Tony so much while Tony was unconscious that Tony went into cardiac arrest is genius.

 

[M.S.G.]

I attempted a re-watch for myself and a first watch for my wife.. Got halfway through season 2 before she checked out, "the characters make me angry" was her reasoning.

My biggest takeaway from a re-watch was how on earth Christopher lived as long as he did!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Binge watching Season 6, I wonder if the writers were trying to turn the perspective around. If you think about the last few episodes objectively, Phil Leotardo seems pretty reasonable leading up to the finale, while Tony is a raging scalitohole when he isn't high or a degenerate gambler. Tony is abusive to his friends and his employees, killing several of them, and it is clear his business is declining even as his spending gets worse. Carmen is essentially a prostitute, letting Tony treat her like Spartacus as long as she can live the high life.

Tony repeatedly interferes with Phil's family and constantly undermines Phil's authority, just like Tony did with Johnny Sacks. Phil runs a much bigger organization, and yet Tony continues to provoke Phil until a war erupts that gets several of Tony's friends and business relationships killed. How much was Phil supposed to take?

The last 3-4 episodes are very different through this lens.

 

[August_West]

Binge watching Season 6, I wonder if the writers were trying to turn the perspective around. If you think about the last few episodes objectively, Phil Leotardo seems pretty reasonable leading up to the finale, while Tony is a raging scalitohole when he isn't high or a degenerate gambler. Tony is abusive to his friends and his employees, killing several of them, and it is clear his business is declining even as his spending gets worse. Carmen is essentially a prostitute, letting Tony treat her like Spartacus as long as she can live the high life.

Tony repeatedly interferes with Phil's family and constantly undermines Phil's authority, just like Tony did with Johnny Sacks. Phil runs a much bigger organization, and yet Tony continues to provoke Phil until a war erupts that gets several of Tony's friends and business relationships killed. How much was Phil supposed to take?

The last 3-4 episodes are very different through this lens.

May not be wrong. But if you are right wouldn’t the catalyst be his son trying to kill himself?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

May not be wrong. But if you are right wouldn’t the catalyst be his son trying to kill himself?

Tony's spiral starts near the end of Season 6A. By the time 6B gets going, he really deserves to die. AJ trying to kill himself is almost seems like a script mistake when you view it through this lens, because it creates sympathy for a character that deserves a very bad end. But then Tony shows no empathy for AJ, and only seems to be looking for evidence of others' kids being more screwed up as if that would make AJ's situation better. AJ's suicide attempt shows how irredeemable Tony has become.

 

[Waquoit]

Watched from the lens of "let's have fun watching all these losers get whacked" got me through it.

 

[Ts5034]

In Season 6. The acting is better than I remember, even Robert Iler.

Edit: Paulie annoying Tony so much while Tony was unconscious that Tony went into cardiac arrest is genius.

I liked season 6 part two a lot better when I rewatched it a couple years later. I think I was anticipating the final episodes and finale so much that I kind of over hyped it to the point where it failed my own crazy expectations. I still don't agree with how the final episode was handled though, but I think I'm more upset with David Chase and the way he was so evasive when asked about what happened in the final scene. When you end a series the way he did, he at least owes the fans an explanation of exactly what that was.

 

[Waquoit]

When you end a series the way he did, he at least owes the fans an explanation of exactly what that was.

By the end, he sounded like a guy who was corrupted by the process as much as any of his characters.

 

[Kolumbo]

I loved The Sopranos. It was the humor more than the drama. Tony, Paulie, Chrissy, Sil, Junior, Sack, . . . Great characters and a lot of fun.