OT: The case for the Big East adding Gonzaga | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT: The case for the Big East adding Gonzaga

I think it is possible Gonzaga remains relevant once Few retires. It isn’t like they are a one trick pony. Fitzgerald had some decent mid-major teams. Which is what they were. Monson made them a household name. Few kept it going and expanded their reach. And he could be there another 10 years. 5-8 anyway.

I just don’t think it is viable for either them or us to have them in the league. Maybe it works for the midwestern schools. Not for the east coast ones though.
 
ZooCougar said:
On every planet and in every universe.

Tell me how Gonzaga is additive when the Big Tornado conference only wanted to give them $2M?

You’re out of your gourd.
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How did that work for the Big 12?
 
Big East should focus on kicking DePaul out first.

Absolutely no reason to add a geographic outlier that's a 1 coach program.

If I absolutely had to add a new program, I would go with VCU. New market within the footprint, solid history of making the NCAAs under multiple coaches.

With that said, don't add anyone.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Big East should focus on kicking DePaul out first.

Absolutely no reason to add a geographic outlier that's a 1 coach program.

If I absolutely had to add a new program, I would go with VCU. New market within the footprint, solid history of making the NCAAs under multiple coaches.

With that said, don't add anyone.
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I just don’t see how we can add a VCU type and gain anything. We need Seton Hall, SJU, Butler, Georgetown and DePaul to step up. We’ve got more than enough schools. They’ve got to get better.

If Gonzaga really wants to join, it’s worth a look. However, I don’t see how either side decides it’s the right move in the end. It’s just too far away to run so many teams out there and I don’t think they can join for basketball only.
 
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Hoophound said:
I just don’t see how we can add a VCU type and gain anything. We need Seton Hall, SJU, Butler, Georgetown and DePaul to step up. We’ve got more than enough schools. They’ve got to get better.

If Gonzaga really wants to join, it’s worth a look. However, I don’t see how either side decides it’s the right move in the end. It’s just too far away to run so many teams out there and I don’t think they can join for basketball only.
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I think my point is just that; VCU doesn't add anything. Neither do any available options. They would be the program along with Dayton that you could most reasonably expect to maintain competitive through coaching changes.
 
buddy said:
Please explain! Big 12 seems to be thriving and will be even stronger when ACC implodes.
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The Big 12 offered Gonzaga $2 million per year. We don't know what ESPN/FOX would give to the Big 12 for adding Gonzaga. But we do know Gonzaga said no thanks to 2 million per year.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I think my point is just that; VCU doesn't add anything. Neither do any available options. They would be the program along with Dayton that you could most reasonably expect to maintain competitive through coaching changes.
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I hear what you're saying but I look at the other way around. Dayton and VCU are good programs and the schools are reasonable peers that would cost very little to add to the BE. I would expect them to be league average competitors in a couple years, creating a larger yet still logical version of the current conference, again at almost no cost. There's significant inherent weakness in a small 11 team conference, regarding realignment and media leverage, that appears easily avoidable.

Also, as a Washingtonian, I know zero people who want to see Gonzaga in the BE. Folks want a stronger WCC sure, but playing Providence, Butler, Seton Hall with a 3hr time difference is a hard no. Seattle U is a perfect fit for WCC, and WSU and OSU really belong in the MWC. Seems like everyone is waiting on FSU or Clemson to bring the hammer down for the next round though. Should be real.
 
speckle said:
I hear what you're saying but I look at the other way around. Dayton and VCU are good programs and the schools are reasonable peers that would cost very little to add to the BE. I would expect them to be league average competitors in a couple years, creating a larger yet still logical version of the current conference, again at almost no cost. There's significant inherent weakness in a small 11 team conference, regarding realignment and media leverage, that appears easily avoidable.

Also, as a Washingtonian, I know zero people who want to see Gonzaga in the BE. Folks want a stronger WCC sure, but playing Providence, Butler, Seton Hall with a 3hr time difference is a hard no. Seattle U is a perfect fit for WCC, and WSU and OSU really belong in the MWC. Seems like everyone is waiting on FSU or Clemson to bring the hammer down for the next round though. Should be real.
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There is no reason to add anyone to the Big East.
 
speckle said:
I hear what you're saying but I look at the other way around. Dayton and VCU are good programs and the schools are reasonable peers that would cost very little to add to the BE. I would expect them to be league average competitors in a couple years, creating a larger yet still logical version of the current conference, again at almost no cost. There's significant inherent weakness in a small 11 team conference, regarding realignment and media leverage, that appears easily avoidable.

Also, as a Washingtonian, I know zero people who want to see Gonzaga in the BE. Folks want a stronger WCC sure, but playing Providence, Butler, Seton Hall with a 3hr time difference is a hard no. Seattle U is a perfect fit for WCC, and WSU and OSU really belong in the MWC. Seems like everyone is waiting on FSU or Clemson to bring the hammer down for the next round though. Should be real.
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Dayton and VCU today are better programs than multiple BE teams. But upon a potential invite, they become the least interesting league games ahead of only DePaul.

I think the size of the league is a bit of a fallacy as well. Those programs are good but they don't move the needle enough to warrant inclusion into the league and to ruin the round robin regular season.
 
freescooter said:
I think it is possible Gonzaga remains relevant once Few retires. It isn’t like they are a one trick pony. Fitzgerald had some decent mid-major teams. Which is what they were. Monson made them a household name.
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Monson coached 2 seasons at Gonzaga and made the NCAA tournament once (although an Elite 8) so I don't know how he made Gonzaga a household name. Before Few took over, Gonzaga had made 2 NCAA tournaments ever.
 
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ConnHuskBask said:
Dayton and VCU today are better programs than multiple BE teams. But upon a potential invite, they become the least interesting league games ahead of only DePaul.

I think the size of the league is a bit of a fallacy as well. Those programs are good but they don't move the needle enough to warrant inclusion into the league and to ruin the round robin regular season.
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I agree with the sentiment if not the details. The New Big East is about 75% nostalgia, especially for UConn fans. Most of the basketball is mediocre. Nobody plans their week around Seton Hall-Providence or Butler-Georgetown. Bringing in 2 more teams that are better than Butler, Georgetown and Providence but not as good as at least Marquette and Creighton, if not competitive with UConn, adds nothing but a couple of additional mouths to feed.

When a network is paying for the NEWBIE they are paying for 4. things:
1. UConn
2. The hope that Villanova somehow recovers the Wright stuff.
3. Nostalgia for the days long ago when UConn, Syracuse, Louisville and the like roamed the court and the league had several top 10 teams annually
4. Filler.

The size of the league and whether or not it plays a round robin are only relevant to #4.
 
UConnJim said:
Monson coached 2 seasons at Gonzaga and made the NCAA tournament once (although an Elite 8) so I don't know how he made Gonzaga a household name. Before Few took over, Gonzaga had made 2 NCAA tournaments ever.
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Monson took a team nobody ever heard of from the wrong part of Washington and got to the Elite 8. Before that run the only thing anyone knew about Gonzaga was Big Crosby was an alumnus. You’re right that if Few hadn’t kept the fire burning they would likely be a footnote like St Peters or Loyola or George Mason. One of those surprise mid-majors who made a deep run. But Monson got the ball rolling.
 
freescooter said:
Monson took a team nobody ever heard of from the wrong part of Washington and got to the Elite 8. Before that run the only thing anyone knew about Gonzaga was Big Crosby was an alumnus. You’re right that if Few hadn’t kept the fire burning they would likely be a footnote like St Peters or Loyola or George Mason. One of those surprise mid-majors who made a deep run. But Monson got the ball rolling.
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Who is Big Crosby?
 
freescooter said:
I agree with the sentiment if not the details. The New Big East is about 75% nostalgia, especially for UConn fans. Most of the basketball is mediocre. Nobody plans their week around Seton Hall-Providence or Butler-Georgetown. Bringing in 2 more teams that are better than Butler, Georgetown and Providence but not as good as at least Marquette and Creighton, if not competitive with UConn, adds nothing but a couple of additional mouths to feed.

When a network is paying for the NEWBIE they are paying for 4. things:
1. UConn
2. The hope that Villanova somehow recovers the Wright stuff.
3. Nostalgia for the days long ago when UConn, Syracuse, Louisville and the like roamed the court and the league had several top 10 teams annually
4. Filler.

The size of the league and whether or not it plays a round robin are only relevant to #4.
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You might be right on some of this, but nostalgia for something that isn't coming back is a terrible long-term game plan. Whether UCONN is in the league for the long run or not, the league should always be looking to improve it's product through deliberate, logical expansion. Unless you're at the top of the heap, which we're clearly not, doing nothing is rarely a good choice. Adding D and VCU would cost us very little in real dollar terms, but it seems equally likely to turn profitable while adding quality matchups. (I don't understand the least interesting games comment or care about the round robin format). Also, adding Gonzaga would have cost us money this season since playing them on a league revenue share is less profitable than playing and selling those game's rights as an elite noncon matchup. The old big east is dead, rip, I'd be adding D and VCU today to continue building the new.
 
.-.
freescooter said:
I agree with the sentiment if not the details. The New Big East is about 75% nostalgia, especially for UConn fans. Most of the basketball is mediocre. Nobody plans their week around Seton Hall-Providence or Butler-Georgetown. Bringing in 2 more teams that are better than Butler, Georgetown and Providence but not as good as at least Marquette and Creighton, if not competitive with UConn, adds nothing but a couple of additional mouths to feed.

When a network is paying for the NEWBIE they are paying for 4. things:
1. UConn
2. The hope that Villanova somehow recovers the Wright stuff.
3. Nostalgia for the days long ago when UConn, Syracuse, Louisville and the like roamed the court and the league had several top 10 teams annually
4. Filler.

The size of the league and whether or not it plays a round robin are only relevant to #4.
Expand ...
Fetch Mean Girls GIF
 
ZooCougar said:
On every planet and in every universe.

Tell me how Gonzaga is additive when the Big Tornado conference only wanted to give them $2M?

You’re out of your gourd.
Expand ...
Big Tornado Conference..I like that name...:)
 
freescooter said:
I agree with the sentiment if not the details. The New Big East is about 75% nostalgia, especially for UConn fans. Most of the basketball is mediocre. Nobody plans their week around Seton Hall-Providence or Butler-Georgetown. Bringing in 2 more teams that are better than Butler, Georgetown and Providence but not as good as at least Marquette and Creighton, if not competitive with UConn, adds nothing but a couple of additional mouths to feed.

When a network is paying for the NEWBIE they are paying for 4. things:
1. UConn
2. The hope that Villanova somehow recovers the Wright stuff.
3. Nostalgia for the days long ago when UConn, Syracuse, Louisville and the like roamed the court and the league had several top 10 teams annually
4. Filler.

The size of the league and whether or not it plays a round robin are only relevant to #4.
Expand ...

Nobody wants VCU against Of Paul.

It does nothing for the Big East.
 
freescooter said:
I agree with the sentiment if not the details. The New Big East is about 75% nostalgia, especially for UConn fans. Most of the basketball is mediocre. Nobody plans their week around Seton Hall-Providence or Butler-Georgetown. Bringing in 2 more teams that are better than Butler, Georgetown and Providence but not as good as at least Marquette and Creighton, if not competitive with UConn, adds nothing but a couple of additional mouths to feed.

When a network is paying for the NEWBIE they are paying for 4. things:
1. UConn
2. The hope that Villanova somehow recovers the Wright stuff.
3. Nostalgia for the days long ago when UConn, Syracuse, Louisville and the like roamed the court and the league had several top 10 teams annually
4. Filler.

The size of the league and whether or not it plays a round robin are only relevant to #4.
Expand ...
Nostalgia for when Louisville was in the league?
Are you trolling us? Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville….
Louisville?
 
uconnyankee said:
Nostalgia for when Louisville was in the league?
Are you trolling us? Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville….
Louisville?
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Yeah. You remember them. 3 National championships. 213-76 record over 8 years in the Big East. 2013 National Championship. Head coach you guys slobber over now that he is in the New Big East. They were no DePaul or Seton Hall but still they were pretty good.
 
As an old guy..I do get nostalgia...I remember the day of Rollie Massimino at Nova upsetting John Thompson's Georgetown for the NC...you tend to think fondly of the past. All of these years later, when I think "Georgetown"..I think Thompson..Ewing vs Oljuwan in the Final...Micheal Jordan vs Ewing in the Final...

Louisville was a decent opponent at the time for the Huskies...11-6 record against UConn.
 
.-.
billybud said:
As an old guy..I do get nostalgia...I remember the day of Rollie Massimino at Nova upsetting John Thompson's Georgetown for the NC...you tend to think fondly of the past. All of these years later, when I think "Georgetown"..I think Thompson..Ewing vs Oljuwan in the Final...Micheal Jordan vs Ewing in the Final...

Louisville was a decent opponent at the time for the Huskies...11-6 record against UConn.
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Just to make you feel older, this season is the 40th anniversary of that Villanova game. At the time I doubt that anyone would have guessed that Villanova would have more championships than Georgetown and Houston.
 
freescooter said:
Yeah. You remember them. 3 National championships. 213-76 record over 8 years in the Big East. 2013 National Championship. Head coach you guys slobber over now that he is in the New Big East. They were no DePaul or Seton Hall but still they were pretty good.
Expand ...
You miss my point friend…. Nobody speaks of Louisville in Big East with any sort of nostalgia.

They were a sleezy program led by sleezy coach. How sleezy? They gave back one of those NC’s you’re bragging about.

By the time Louisville was in the league, the golden era of BE basketball was over
 
uconnyankee said:
You miss my point friend…. Nobody speaks of Louisville in Big East with any sort of nostalgia.

They were a sleezy program led by sleezy coach. How sleezy? They gave back one of those NC’s you’re bragging about.

By the time Louisville was in the league, the golden era of BE basketball was over
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In addition 2013 was AAC
 
uconnyankee said:
You miss my point friend…. Nobody speaks of Louisville in Big East with any sort of nostalgia.

They were a sleezy program led by sleezy coach. How sleezy? They gave back one of those NC’s you’re bragging about.

By the time Louisville was in the league, the golden era of BE basketball was over
Expand ...
If by over you mean in those 8 years only 2 Big East teams won the championship, had at least 1 team in the final four 5 times, had 2 there three times and had 6 different teams get to the Final Four, I guess we have a different definition. If you mean that during that era the Catholic schools not named Villanova began fading into irrelevance, where they remain today, then you are right.

Louisville was sleazy. There coach was and still is a sleaze ball. But we and they were intense rivals.
 
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