OT: The Belmont and The Triple Crown

[RockyMTblue2]

You may want to watch it today - the Belmont. If American Pharoah wins it, then hurrah for him. The winning times in the Derby and Preakness were hardly spectacular - true the Preakness was run in slop. He is the best of a sorry field it would seem. I would wish more from a Triple Crown.

 

[wire chief]

You may want to watch it today - the Belmont. If American Pharoah wins it, then hurrah for him. The winning times in the Derby and Preakness were hardly spectacular - true the Preakness was run in slop. He is the best of a sorry field it would seem. I would wish more from a Triple Crown.

And you are supposed to finish with, "There'll never be another Secretariat".

 

[RockyMTblue2]

And you are supposed to finish with, "There'll never be another Secretariat".

I'd settle for a Ruffian or Whirl-a-way or about 7 others. Hell, Sham would be great! This horse, no disrespect, not so much. 'Course, if he can win by 32 lengths and 2 3/5 seconds than the fastest previous Preakness I'll eat a Tennessee jersey dry on YouTube.

 

[Alydar]

There was a time when race horses were bred to run longer distances but in the last 15 years or more breeding has focussed on speed (in the US). None of these horses should be racing 3 route races in 5 weeks but every time a horse wins the first two the owners can't resist running in the Belmont. The answer is to spread the races out more but it would be easier to move Christmas to the 26th than to get the three tracks to cooperate.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

There was a time when race horses were bred to run longer distances but in the last 15 years or more breeding has focussed on speed (in the US). None of these horses should be racing 3 route races in 5 weeks but every time a horse wins the first two the owners can't resist running in the Belmont. The answer is to spread the races out more but it would be easier to move Christmas to the 26th than to get the three tracks to cooperate.

Racing and breeding has been declining for decades as off-track betting has killed off race tracks and syndicates have hasten the consolidation. the losers - not so much the sires as the dames, but still both. The economics has tightened up, the winnowing severe...etc, etc, etc.

 

[ThisJustIn]

What are your thoughts on requiring horses to compete in all three races?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

What are your thoughts on requiring horses to compete in all three races?

That is a shrewd question. However, the entry fees would kill off 2/3rds of the field from the get go, or you would have a lot of phony injury withdrawals.

 

[Alydar]

What are your thoughts on requiring horses to compete in all three races?

I think it's ridiculous. They are three independent races at 3 different tracks. The whole thing that makes it so rare is that a horse must take on all challengers in each race. The "triple crown" is an artificial creation of the media and is exclusive of any of the 3 tracks. There used to also be a triple crown for fillies and a more prestigious handicap triple crown for older horses. Of course there is little handicap racing at the highest levels any more.

The only thing it would do is to make it a whole lot easier to win. But the New York Racing Assoc. would never agree to it.

 

[Zorro]

Is Alydar the only horse ever to finish a strong second in all three races?

 

[Alydar]

Is Alydar the only horse ever to finish a strong second in all three races?

Not that I know of. Sham finished second to Secretariat in the Derby and Preakness but was eased in the Belmont and finished last. Never raced again and that would become all too common if horses were required to race in all three.

The 1978 3 year old TC series when Affirmed and Alydar faced each other was easily the best TC races I've ever watched.
Alydar got his revenge in the breeding barn where he became a much more prolific sire than Affirmed.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

A triple crown .... 8 seconds slower than Secretariats at the 3/4 poll. What a dismal field.

 

[alexrgct]

If you can't show this beautiful, majestic horse the proper respect, I don't know what to tell you. He may not be Secretariat, but AP has run three terrific races, especially Belmont.

The last Triple Crown was the year of my birth. I feel privileged to watch this race in HD, to see AP break out to an early lead and to keep it going throughout that kind of long track. He held them all off and broke free for an historic Triple Crown. Congratulations to Espinoza, the horse's owner, and to the horse himself...even if he is "only" a horse.

 

[LIUCHusky]

A triple crown .... 8 seconds slower than Secretariats at the 3/4 poll. What a dismal field.

He ran fast enough to win! What more do you want? Compared to Secretariat, they all look slow.

 

[alexrgct]

A triple crown .... 8 seconds slower than Secretariats at the 3/4 poll. What a dismal field.

He wasn't racing Secretariat. No one ever could. He's still a fine, fine horse.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

He wasn't racing Secretariat. No one ever could. He's still a fine, fine horse.

To you both, I was merely illustrating how weak this field was that no one even tried to challenge. He was 2 seconds slower than Secretariat. He is a fine horse, but a fine horse in a dismal year of racing.

 

[arch]

To you both, I was merely illustrating how weak this field was that no one even tried to challenge. He was 2 seconds slower than Secretariat. He is a fine horse, but a fine horse in a dismal year of racing.

Without being challenged, didn't he just run the 7th best Belmont Stakes time ever?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Without being challenged, didn't he just run the 7th best Belmont Stakes time ever?

Well, that was my point in a way. He set the pace and ran a slow 3/4s, which would lead you to believe that at least 1 of those 7 behind him could mount a late charge...poof, nothing. But as I am now viewed as a pariah (not pharaoh sic) in my own household over my opinion on this, let's just say I am off the mark on this and he is a great champion!

 

[Icebear]

Third fastest Belmont and second largest length win to only Secretariat. Actually at the start of the year this was expected to be a very strong season and unlikely to produce a triple crown winner. It is important to remember that the Preakness was run in a torrential downpour. The time was never going to be great. AP won under significantly different conditions and from less than ideal positions in two races.

 

[Icebear]

To you both, I was merely illustrating how weak this field was that no one even tried to challenge. He was 2 seconds slower than Secretariat. He is a fine horse, but a fine horse in a dismal year of racing.

Secretariat won the Belmont by 31 lengths every horse in history was probably eights seconds behind him at the 3/4 pole. Today's race was the third fastest in history according to the announcers.

 

[OldAlum]

As a horseperson, I admire the horse and the race. The horse has a beautiful, efficient stride. He has won every race after his first. No "ordinary" horse is that consistent in top company. His trainer did a great job of getting him to the Derby in not-yet-peak condition so the horse actually improved over the difficult and draining series of races. So happy to see my fourth Triple Crown!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Secretariat won the Belmont by 31 lengths every horse in history was probably eights seconds behind him at the 3/4 pole. Today's race was the third fastest in history according to the announcers.

Actually Sham was on his shoulder at the 3/4 pole. I surrender. he's a very good horse. The rest not so much.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Congrats to American Pharaoh and his team! There was a lot of pressure today, with the extra distance and the burden of a 37-year drought. He ran a good race and won impressively to go into the history books.

As for Secretariat, he was without equal. He was Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, and Jim Brown rolled into one. His records still stand 42 years later. It's unfair to compare any horse with Big Red. Let's just celebrate this year's outstanding horse.

I can understand Alex's view. My son was born in December 1978, so this was the first Triple Crown for him, his wife, his son, and his 2-month-old daughter. I think it was a combination of Pharaoh's greatness and baby Rosie being a good luck charm.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Sudden flashback reading Milford's post... remember Red Rum?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Sudden flashback reading Milford's post... remember Red Rum?

Heeeeere's Johnny!

 

[Zorro]

According to Wikipedia, the announcers were wrong. AP had not the third but the sixth fastest time;
Sec, 1974 2:24.0
Easy Goer 1989 2:26.0
AP Indy, 1992 2:26.13
Risen Star 1988 2:26.40
Gallant Man 1957 2:26.60
American Pharoa, 2:26.65

That is still faster than 84 other winners since the race went from a mile and 3/16 to 1.5 miles in 1926. Faster than Citation, War Admiral, Affirmed, and Native Dancer. Not too shabby.