OT: Sunderland ‘til I Die

[Pudge]

I’m gonna recommend this Netflix series about a loyal passionate Football club in the north of England desperately hanging on as their club gets relegated out of the Premier League and then, through this series, gets relegated to the next league down. You can make your life bandwagon hopping. But, many of us UConn stakeholders (students, alumni, parents, state residents, New Englanders, Taxpayers) cling to the special feeling we’ve earned as fans of a School that has rewarded us immensely in Sports.

Like FBS, the huge difference in revenue from one level to the next is hugely clear. And the Fans are intensely supportive; yet scared of the consequences of that aspect of their fandom. Possessing one of the largest football stadiums in Europe and some real assets, the fan base is dependent on key executives making solid decisions. And this goes horribly wrong in this series ... plus injury. (And clearly they made awful choices prior). You can watch the Amazon series on Man City ... but this one will pull your heart.

Lastly ...
My generational tie to UConn football & hoops came from my Dad. And this series wraps that aspect in a bow: we want this Program to be a communion with family, friends and community. Let’s just win that next game

 

[zls44]

 

[noeynox]

the fan base is dependent on key executives making solid decisions. And this goes horribly wrong in this series ... plus injury. (And clearly they made awful choices prior)

Sounds like us alright.

 

[Pudge]

the fan base is dependent on key executives making solid decisions. And this goes horribly wrong in this series ... plus injury. (And clearly they made awful choices prior)

Sounds like us alright.

You are in the top League in the sport. Then you drop … lose TV and Media income from 75m Pounds to a fraction. Then: you play with a bastardized roster - because of transition and new paradigm - and finish dead last in the lower division. And that top row of seating. Still ... the camaraderie and soul of this town is still with them.


NOTE: This year 2018-2019, in the lower league, they only have TWO losses in 35 games and can move up. AND they sold 22,000 season tickets. With the hope of this new coach Jack Ross.

 

[RSTuthill]

And the difference, of course, is that in English football teams can buy their way to the top and often do. All you need is a billionaire oligarch to take up your cause.

As a model for the UConn Huskies FB team, it does not quite work. UConn's oligarch backers are few and far between.

 

[Pudge]

And the difference, of course, is that in English football teams can buy their way to the top and often do. All you need is a billionaire oligarch to take up your cause.

As a model for the UConn Huskies FB team, it does not quite work. UConn's oligarch backers are few and far between.

I’d argue the path from League One to the top of the sport is harder and a tougher road. But watch the series ... then see what you think.

 

[whaler11]

I’d argue the path from League One to the top of the sport is harder and a tougher road. But watch the series ... then see what you think.

lol thats silly. english soccer GUARANTEES that teams get promoted every season. nobody gets promoted in college football.

if uconn were an english soccer team it would be out of the EFL and playing in the semi-pro 5th division.

 

[SubbaBub]

I'm pretty sure the revenue remains mostly in place for 3 years. A one year drop is not a death sentence but obviously finishing in the bottom 3 of a 20 team league is already a sign of big problems.

 

[Waquoit]

I've been hesitant to watch, I've been depressed enough lately.

 

[Pudge]

I'm pretty sure the revenue remains mostly in place for 3 years. A one year drop is not a death sentence but obviously finishing in the bottom 3 of a 20 team league is already a sign of big problems.

Called a Parachute

And it seems to dramatically decline through those years. The net result is you lose your better players quick ... or the worse thing is someone gets injured who has a $50000 (think conversion to pounds) a week contract & you’re stuck in the lower division.

You simply swirl down the toilet. And frankly, that’s exactly where UConn got with the Big East Exit Fees.

whaler11 shot his mouth without knowing the depth of conversation. There’s about 7 clubs that dominate by huge Revenue advantages out of 100 total in the UK. You are talking strictly football ... not regional TV +basketball etc ... and it’s years to return. With no Bowl potential. It’s simply not a silly simple analogy comparative advantage. Sunderland will never be a Kansas State. UConn could.

REVISED NOTE: new Owner states in podcast that he has a 10million pound wage advantage over the other League One teams in this their second year of relegation; but if they return to Championship League (one step below Premier) next year, they will have a 40million pound disadvantage to just relegated clubs. So ... it’s a sliding scale over 3 years

 

[uconndogs]

Great OP Pudge!

I get your point. At some point you have to be a fan and take off the green eye shades. It’s been a brutal stretch, but giving up..............well **** that!

 

[whaler11]

Called a Parachute

And it seems to dramatically decline through those years. The net result is you lose your better players quick ... or the worse thing is someone gets injured who has a $50000 (think conversion to pounds) a week contract & you’re stuck in the lower division.

You simply swirl down the toilet. And frankly, that’s exactly where UConn got with the Big East Exit Fees.

whaler11 shot his mouth without knowing the depth of conversation. There’s about 7 clubs that dominate by huge Revenue advantages out of 100 total in the UK. You are talking strictly football ... not regional TV +basketball etc ... and it’s years to return. With no Bowl potential. It’s simply not a silly simple analogy comparative advantage. Sunderland will never be a Kansas State. UConn could.

lol yeah I pay for TWO different streaming accounts to watch second division english football.

sure I watched an entire Ipswich Town game yesterday but you watched a documentary that gave you the feelz about your daddy.

do yourself a favor and stop talking out of your arse.

your recent nonsense is almost as stupid as your MARKETZZZZZ nonsense about tulsa and tulane who should be sunk at the bottom of the ocean

and stop being a passive agressive punk and either tag me or quote me

 

[hardcorehusky]

Sunderland kept flirting with disaster for years before taking the drop. They controlled their situation. They earned their League One status.

UConn's fate ultimately was in the hands of the ACC and ESPN. UConn, through Roy Kramer's study, knew what the future held and brought football up a level. UConn was competitive almost immediately and ultimately got to the Fiesta Bowl. What UCONN could not control was the break up of the Big East and ultimately being left behind. We could have been undefeated the last 6 years and we would still be in the American. The lesson from the Sunderland disaster revolves around management and culture. Get the right guys in- program builders and we can be successful- all be it from the American.

 

[Mano]

Thought maybe this thread was about Kendra.

 

[Pudge]

lol yeah I pay for TWO different streaming accounts to watch second division english football.

sure I watched an entire Ipswich Town game yesterday but you watched a documentary that gave you the feelz about your daddy.

do yourself a favor and stop talking out of your arse.

your recent nonsense is almost as stupid as your MARKETZZZZZ nonsense about tulsa and tulane who should be sunk at the bottom of the ocean

and stop being a passive agressive punk and either tag me or quote me

You often just spout ... Moby Dick like.

In this case, you can use numbers. You act like you’re a beautifully successful Master of the Universe. In this case, you can listen and research - use Numbers. Data. That’s what we learn in business school. Not just opining like it’s Twitter.

Their New Owner gives you the case for getting back to the Premier League. Unlike College Sports, it’s highly public.

I would argue that the Paradigm of Power 5 is not forever locked. That’s the fallacy in your argument.

 

[Pudge]

Great OP Pudge!

I get your point. At some point you have to be a fan and take off the green eye shades. It’s been a brutal stretch, but giving up....well **** that!

Sunderland fan support is heartbreaking and heart rendering. Despite their Pride in the Black Cats and Community, they have genuine fear that this drop gets worse. I see that here ... in Our UConn fan base. Then: they got a new regime and there’s enthusiasm this year.

 

[whaler11]

You often just spout ... Moby Dick like.

In this case, you can use numbers. You act like you’re a beautifully successful Master of the Universe. In this case, you can listen and research - use Numbers. Data. That’s what we learn in business school. Not just opining like it’s Twitter.

Their New Owner gives you the case for getting back to the Premier League. Unlike College Sports, it’s highly public.

I would argue that the Paradigm of Power 5 is not forever locked. That’s the fallacy in your argument.

your posts are long running evidence that business school is an immense waste of time - the idea you teach while posting nonsense like this is pretty funny

let’s see... your contention that this is about numbers and data.... well your entire premise in the op is the opposite. it’s a dopey call to emotions that somehow the fans can fix uconns mess (special feelz). as for which one of us is qualified to create arguments using numbers... lol

there is one thing that uconn has in common with sunderland. complete and total incompetence across the board (ironic you want to compare them because you think uconn’s leadership is good - lol).

there is one way to potentially fix uconns football program. clear out everyone, find competent leadership, invest money, find someone who can coach. the rest of it is just worthless blabbering.

 

[Pudge]

your posts are long running evidence that business school is an immense waste of time - the idea you teach while posting nonsense like this is pretty funny

let’s see... your contention that this is about numbers and data.... well your entire premise in the op is the opposite. it’s a dopey call to emotions that somehow the fans can fix uconns mess (special feelz). as for which one of us is qualified to create arguments using numbers... lol

there is one thing that uconn has in common with sunderland. complete and total incompetence across the board (ironic you want to compare them because you think uconn’s leadership is good - lol).

there is one way to potentially fix uconns football program. clear out everyone, find competent leadership, invest money, find someone who can coach. the rest of it is just worthless blabbering.

What I hear from you ... we should close up
The Program and give up.

Of course, in my 35 years in real estate, nobody - for instance - walks away from Rentschler (original TC of $93m plus Infrastructure projects that never gets included and equates to a Replacement Cost of probably $225m to 250m given recent like stadiums (mostly MLS)). The idea perpetuated by some that WE (UConn or State) would do that is nuts. Nobody does that. No Instutution. You put UConn Football on the level with KMart and that’s silly.

SEE Rutgers circa 2000

As for UConn Administration, you are also woefully lacking in imagination as to what a Modern University Campus is about. Herbst did a great job - and arguably most opinions that purely come on the boneyard relate to the challenges of our Finances & our fall from the NC contention of our MBB & our severely poor results in recent years of FB. A President has so many other responsibilities (and I’m certain you don’t have one in your family). She raised the Profile and pushed the academics rankings to new heights and created a multi developmental growth of campus in many ways. Storrs Center, Innovation Park, STEM all proceeded easily in these years whereas previous administrations stumbled bumbled. I think the new guy looks great.

The Athletic conference situation and decline was baked in before Herbst. We were on a slow swirl ... Blame Hathaway and Austin. BC. We really got shafted

As for numbers and the metaphor with English Football. I do find it interesting. But Sunderland way back to Premier is steep. UConn AD? We have a tradition of Champions. Rutgers never had that and won’t. In the broad sweep of decades, I refuse to agree that the current lockout by the Power 5 forever closes out us ...not Nevada or UCF etc. the Delaneys and Slives die off. UConn will have opportunity.

 

[whaler11]

What I hear from you ... we should close up
The Program and give up.

Of course, in my 35 years in real estate, nobody - for instance - walks away from Rentschler (original TC of $93m plus Infrastructure projects that never gets included and equates to a Replacement Cost of probably $225m to 250m given recent like stadiums (mostly MLS)). The idea perpetuated by some that WE (UConn or State) would do that is nuts. Nobody does that. No Instutution. You put UConn Football on the level with KMart and that’s silly.

SEE Rutgers circa 2000

As for UConn Administration, you are also woefully lacking in imagination as to what a Modern University Campus is about. Herbst did a great job - and arguably most opinions that purely come on the boneyard relate to the challenges of our Finances & our fall from the NC contention of our MBB & our severely poor results in recent years of FB. A President has so many other responsibilities (and I’m certain you don’t have one in your family). She raised the Profile and pushed the academics rankings to new heights and created a multi developmental growth of campus in many ways. Storrs Center, Innovation Park, STEM all proceeded easily in these years whereas previous administrations stumbled bumbled. I think the new guy looks great.

The Athletic conference situation and decline was baked in before Herbst. We were on a slow swirl ... Blame Hathaway and Austin. BC. We really got shafted

As for numbers and the metaphor with English Football. I do find it interesting. But Sunderland way back to Premier is steep. UConn AD? We have a tradition of Champions. Rutgers never had that and won’t. In the broad sweep of decades, I refuse to agree that the current lockout by the Power 5 forever closes out us ...not Nevada or UCF etc. the Delaneys and Slives die off. UConn will have opportunity.

I’m not sure how much clearer I can make it.

If they don’t go hire some people who know what they are doing and invest in the program it’s going to continue to be what it has been since the Fiesta Bowl. A total and complete joke. Shut it down or go 1-11 every year? Why would anyone care to have a football program that performs like the last three years.

If you don’t think that shutting it down is going to be an option I don’t know what to tell you... state money is going to dry up, tuition is going to continue to rise at a ridiculous rate and the deficit in the athletic department is going to continue to grow.

Unless they increase revenue very quickly (and there is clearly no path for that), cuts are coming and golf and swimming and track ain’t gonna move the needle.

What kind of janky business school doesn’t teach sunk costs? Hey let’s lose $10 million a year on football annually because we spent $93 million 20 years ago.

Either take the steps that need to be taken to fix it or stop having it drag the athletic department down.

Herbst set UConn up to fail in a spectacular fashion - not a single iota of vision beyond spend money on shiny things no matter how unsustainable - oh and enrich as many useless administrators as possible. Nice job on UConn Health too - that’s a gem. Maybe soon the entire student body can be foreign internationals paying higher tuition so the worthless overhead can be fed.

LOL at not having a university president in my family - I don’t have a FBS head football coach either but I noticed that Bob Diaco was a horse’s arse while you were carrying his water.

 

[Exit 4]

When are you two meeting at the score board to settle this; at the Wagner game? Or perhaps AD David Benedict will ask you move it to mid season so it can be a draw when we hit the mid season blues...

And while I envision the fists flying, I could this "descending" into a real old time debate. Wear some Abe Lincoln era garb to ham it up.

 

[Ldandy]

I’m not sure how much clearer I can make it.

If they don’t go hire some people who know what they are doing and invest in the program it’s going to continue to be what it has been since the Fiesta Bowl. A total and complete joke. Shut it down or go 1-11 every year? Why would anyone care to have a football program that performs like the last three years.

If you don’t think that shutting it down is going to be an option I don’t know what to tell you... state money is going to dry up, tuition is going to continue to rise at a ridiculous rate and the deficit in the athletic department is going to continue to grow.

Unless they increase revenue very quickly (and there is clearly no path for that), cuts are coming and golf and swimming and track ain’t gonna move the needle.

What kind of janky business school doesn’t teach sunk costs? Hey let’s lose $10 million a year on football annually because we spent $93 million 20 years ago.

Either take the steps that need to be taken to fix it or stop having it drag the athletic department down.

Herbst set UConn up to fail in a spectacular fashion - not a single iota of vision beyond spend money on shiny things no matter how unsustainable - oh and enrich as many useless administrators as possible. Nice job on UConn Health too - that’s a gem. Maybe soon the entire student body can be foreign internationals paying higher tuition so the worthless overhead can be fed.

LOL at not having a university president in my family - I don’t have a FBS head football coach either but I noticed that Bob Diaco was a horse’s arse while you were carrying his water.

I don't always agree with the things Whaler says or how he says them, but people need to read what he wrote and process it. Things need to change on a fundamental level or the entire AD could be in jeopardy. I'm obviously in no way personally connected to this situation in the same way that you all are, but I've adopted UConn Football Fandom(crazy I know) and I do not want to see the program become marginalized in a coming restructuring of the athletic department. The program has failed and continues to fail so hard since 2010, and there is no clear path to fixing that. The time has already come. Either commit all resources to improving the program or shuttle it entirely. Being 3-9 in The AAC on an annual basis will be a prolonged death spiral for the program and potentially The AD.

 

[Pudge]

I’m not sure how much clearer I can make it.

If they don’t go hire some people who know what they are doing and invest in the program it’s going to continue to be what it has been since the Fiesta Bowl. A total and complete joke. Shut it down or go 1-11 every year? Why would anyone care to have a football program that performs like the last three years.

If you don’t think that shutting it down is going to be an option I don’t know what to tell you... state money is going to dry up, tuition is going to continue to rise at a ridiculous rate and the deficit in the athletic department is going to continue to grow.

Unless they increase revenue very quickly (and there is clearly no path for that), cuts are coming and golf and swimming and track ain’t gonna move the needle.

What kind of janky business school doesn’t teach sunk costs? Hey let’s lose $10 million a year on football annually because we spent $93 million 20 years ago.

Either take the steps that need to be taken to fix it or stop having it drag the athletic department down.

Herbst set UConn up to fail in a spectacular fashion - not a single iota of vision beyond spend money on shiny things no matter how unsustainable - oh and enrich as many useless administrators as possible. Nice job on UConn Health too - that’s a gem. Maybe soon the entire student body can be foreign internationals paying higher tuition so the worthless overhead can be fed.

LOL at not having a university president in my family - I don’t have a FBS head football coach either but I noticed that Bob Diaco was a horse’s arse while you were carrying his water.

That’s what I like about whaler11 ... Humility

 

[whaler11]

I don't always agree with the things Whaler says or how he says them, but people need to read what he wrote and process it. Things need to change on a fundamental level or the entire AD could be in jeopardy. I'm obviously in no way personally connected to this situation in the same way that you all are, but I've adopted UConn Football Fandom(crazy I know) and I do not want to see the program become marginalized in a coming restructuring of the athletic department. The program has failed and continues to fail so hard since 2010, and there is no clear path to fixing that. The time has already come. Either commit all resources to improving the program or shuttle it entirely. Being 3-9 in The AAC on an annual basis will be a prolonged death spiral for the program and potentially The AD.

I’ll even explain this next bit nicely.

Barring a Lamont miracle on retiree costs UConn’s funding is going to be devistated in the next round of budgets.

The real estate market here is incredibly soft - and the only thing that keeps it from totally collapsing is the local school systems. You can see the cracks now in the best towns though - there are prices in places like Simsbury I never thought we’d see. My town is the only one in this part of the state that has it’s h.s population growing and the market is so bad it’s almost funny. There are a dozen houses for sale within a par 5 of my driveway and the places that sell are 10-20% below 2004.

The next budget is going to be a war to make sure the state doesn’t move education money away from the local towns. It would have played out last budget but the lucky windfall let the state restore the town’s funding and delayed the battle.

UConn is in a bad spot funding wise because every last state legislator is there to protect their local funding and funding for UConn is not a priority for anyone anymore.

If UConn loses a hundred million in annual state funding in the next cycle (and that might be understated) - having an athletic department that is very publically financially bleeding to death is possibly the easiest target in the world.

Someone is going to have to make tough decisions and they aint gonna be based on the dream that the ACC might come knocking in someone’s fever dream.

 

[Pudge]

I’ll even explain this next bit nicely.

Barring a Lamont miracle on retiree costs UConn’s funding is going to be devistated in the next round of budgets.

The real estate market here is incredibly soft - and the only thing that keeps it from totally collapsing is the local school systems. You can see the cracks now in the best towns though - there are prices in places like Simsbury I never thought we’d see. My town is the only one in this part of the state that has it’s h.s population growing and the market is so bad it’s almost funny. There are a dozen houses for sale within a par 5 of my driveway and the places that sell are 10-20% below 2004.

The next budget is going to be a war to make sure the state doesn’t move education money away from the local towns. It would have played out last budget but the lucky windfall let the state restore the town’s funding and delayed the battle.

UConn is in a bad spot funding wise because every last state legislator is there to protect their local funding and funding for UConn is not a priority for anyone anymore.

If UConn loses a hundred million in annual state funding in the next cycle (and that might be understated) - having an athletic department that is very publically financially bleeding to death is possibly the easiest target in the world.

Someone is going to have to make tough decisions and they aint gonna be based on the dream that the ACC might come knocking in someone’s fever dream.

Are you aware of the disparity in demand between Westchester and Greenwich/Stamford? (vis a vis NY Income tax and property tax capped) I believe values are up in Fairfield and dropping precipitously in Westchester etc.

Demand is flowing east.

I don't know what to say about the $40m deficit - and as a accountant (in my past life), I believe that the numbers serve someone's purpose; and, State Universities all over the US use vastly different accounting methodology and it's not uniform. My summary thought is UConn is not likely to drop Football. I see a bunch of disgruntled BY writers just whining.

Personally - and as I have multiple siblings and relatives in State jobs - pensions of government workers should have been marked to market when GE made their massive restructuring - about 1992. The Northeast states and municipalities are heavily burdened; and should fight everywhere possible.

Putterman is a putz. A Connecticut kid who went to Northwestern and likes to piss on us. I remember my first game at Northwestern versus another B1G school; there weren't many fans there on a sunny fall day. Things change.

It is March ... and the Spring Game is near. I sincerely hope that the 6 FR we played in the Secondary / Star type positions play huge this 2019. I sincerely hope our DL develop into Monsters. And we have two stellar LBs; where we used to have two deep in Todd Orlando's position group.

 

[zls44]

That’s what we learn in business school.

my 35 years in real estate

I don't know what to say about the $40m deficit - and as a accountant (in my past life),

I have multiple siblings and relatives in State jobs

yes, whaler is the one with the humility issue, mmhmm