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OT: Paterno Fired

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Paterno knew this guy was a child rapist for at least the last 15 years and I'm guessing much longer, this is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm guessing close to 100 people come forward and who knows how many more were harmed, this guy is an absolute monster and he is sleeping at home through all of this.
 
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maybe paterno felt his superiors took care of it, again we need to wait until everything comes out

I agree- it doesn't seem like a lot of people want to wait to hear more.

Joepa did a lot of good things in his life and unfortunately, he made a mistake here. I don't think there is any other choice than to let him go now.

Sure, the media (god help us) will write his history and it will be tarnished for sure.

Joepa's positive influence on the PSU community and his former players will still survive.
 

SubbaBub

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Paterno knew this guy was a child rapist for at least the last 15 years and I'm guessing much longer...

I don't know how anyone could possibly know that based on the public information. In order to reach that conclusion you have to make many unfounded assumptions.

There is a ton we don't know. Any immediate danger to the affected children has passed. I'm willingly to wait for all the facts to come out before making pronouncements on his culpability beyond what I've previously stated.

This is a highly charged emotion issue for everyone following this. Venting is understandable, but try to stay level headed. It helps during times of crisis.


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prankster

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It's real easy to cast stones from the outside with the benefit of hindsight. It is also easy to take in the sloppy media coverage and riff on that.

Joe failed in his moral responsibility to follow up when it became clear after weeks and months went by without news of the proper authorities taking action in the case. For that, it was time for him to step down.

Prior to that, he did everything correctly. I've read the entire grand jury report. It is unclear exactly what Joe was told. It is clear that it needed to be report to the authorities. He did that. It is important to remember that there is a work place component to this matter. He reported it to his supervisor and the head of campus police. The university is its own legal principality. They are the legal police force. Unless find out Joe was actively covering this up, he for at least a reasonable period of time should have been able rely on the authorities doing their job. Only when it became clear that nothing was being done, did he fail in his moral obligation. This is why the DA made the statement she did.

With no other information, the board mistreated the man who was neither a witness nor in charge of the investigation. The BOT could have let him finish up, but they got squeamish and panicked. That is the same attitude that failed the victims in this case.

Firing Joe immediately does nothing for the victims. It only feeds the mob's need for more carnage. The president, the head of campus police, and the AD should be fired for their criminal negligence. The later two have been rightfully charged bases on the information available.

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Things may not be as cut and dried as you are making them out....
Apparently Paterno did not report the conversation he had with McQueary with the police.

Instead he reported it to the administrator at the university whose department included the campus police.

In a criminal matter, such as this, I do not believe that that fulfills his (Paterno's) responsibility under the law.

There is no glory that will be bestowed upon anyone at Penn State, deriving from this mess....and all who would try to appologize, at any level, for anyone involved, would probably be best served by sitting down and keeping quiet.

Paterno, himself, should make every effort to, as quietly as possible, fade into the background. He will be fortunate if an indictment is not handed down, and I feel there is virtually a 100% chance that he will spend the rest of his life fighting off civil lawsuits....There is more than a little stink upon him....

What an absolute clusterfu(k.
 
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1. Not sure why anybody would describe the grad student as a "kid." He was at least 22 years old at the time. How does he sleep at night after he walked in on a 10 year old being anally raped and he just walked out?

2. I'm really quite surprised how many people think that this chain of events is acceptable behavior - A) inferior tells you that your friend and former colleague was seen doing something inappropriate with a child in the shower. B) you tell your boss. C) you do nothing else.

I suppose we all have our own moral compass, and that they point in different directions.
 
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I don't know how anyone could possibly know that based on the public information. In order to reach that conclusion you have to make many unfounded assumptions.

There is a ton we don't know. Any immediate danger to the affected children has passed. I'm willingly to wait for all the facts to come out before making pronouncements on his culpability beyond what I've previously stated.

This is a highly charged emotion issue for everyone following this. Venting is understandable, but try to stay level headed. It helps during times of crisis.

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There are plenty of facts that we already know. We know that a 30 page report was distributed on Sandusky in 1998. We know that an eye witness notified Joe Paterno on what we saw in the shower in 2002. Again, how can the head football coach not be held accountable for allowing Sandusky to hold youth football camps on PSU's campus and bring little boys to football practice?
 

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This entire mess almost compels one to start by believing the absolute worst, and then allowing ones mind to toy with the notion that the absolute worst you can imagine is an order of magnitude shy of how bad it really is.

For example: This business about the DA who was investigating Sandusky back in 1998, and went missing in 2005....and is still missing, today.....It is like the plot of a cheap B-grade movie. Except for the fact that it is real.....

What kind of people have the power and ability to do stuff like this and then have it simply go away for a decade or so? And what motivates those kinds of people?
 
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You can say I'm overreating all you want but the entire story is going to get wayyyy worse and the Paterno apologists won't be able to say anything good on his behalf when it all shakes out.
 
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people here are failing to understand that Joe Paterno is the FACE of penn state. Reporting it to his superiors? Really? So he was just suppose to bring it to their attention and it was off his hands? You dont think that if u were in his position and u reported something you wouldnt follow up to why this guy is still running boys camps and using ur facilities ? Come on
 
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You can say I'm overreating all you want.
I can quite assuredly say that no one should accuse you of eating too much. Unless you have a cam set up and you are pounding Famous Amos cookies or something.
I agree though.
This is just getting uglier, and the bounds of what we know Joe knew can only grow.
Right now it's clear that Joe took no action when action was called for. Shortly, however, it may come out that he or others took active steps to prevent release of information that would have popped the lid off of this a long time ago. That would be a whole level worse than simple inaction.

Regarding arguments that Joe is being singled out or held to a higher standards than others in the administration - certainly he is. He was the man. His fame alone gave him power that others didn't have.
 
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Ha, I'm glad I could bring some unintentional levity, damn keyboard.
 
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"I wish I had done more" Joe Paterno

That quote says it all and he knows that he didn't do enough. If he had, he would have prevented other boys being raped by this POS.
 

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2. I'm really quite surprised how many people think that this chain of events is acceptable behavior - A) inferior tells you that your friend and former colleague was seen doing something inappropriate with a child in the shower. B) you tell your boss. C) you do nothing else.

I suppose we all have our own moral compass, and that they point in different directions.

+100000000000000000

Obviously the answer is LOOK AT THE LIBRARY AND THE WINS!!!!!!!!!!!11111
 

zls44

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"I wish I had done more" Joe Paterno

That quote says it all and he knows that he didn't do enough. If he had, he would have prevented other boys being raped by this POS.

Reminded me of Ray Liotta in Goodfellas when he goes to Paulie at the end of the movie.

"I know I duck__ed up, Paulie."
 

SubbaBub

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Prankster,

I don't see where anyone is apologizing for anyone or anything. You proving my point that people are ignoring details.and just acting emotionally. This is what I believe the BOT did and I expect better. Better from them, better from the administration, better from the police and better from Joe. Simply appeasing the mob sickens me just as this whole affair sickens me. Everyones a loser, and it is because reasonable people failed to do the right thing. And while a comparatively small thing, the BOT also failed by making a knee jerk decision they had to know would cause a riot. They are fortunate nothing bad really happened.

As for the details, someone of Joe's stature would absolutely report as he did to the head of the police. He wouldn't pull aside the guy writing parking tickets or call the main number.

I want everyone involved to be held accountable to doing the right thing and that includes the BOT and the media by being more precise with their actions. That's it, it's not even the fact they fired him. It's that they made their decision in a half-ass fashion. Just like everyone else involved.

Poor information and poor deliberation leads to poor decisions no matter how.strong your values are.

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i agree. you can't let something like that go. the guy molested something like 8 boys? good grief, he should be in prison. and the fact (don't pretend to know if it's really a fact) that JoPa knew about some of it but didn't report it spells his end. i agree sad way for a legend to go out, but he made his proverbial bed and now, well...
 
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Should have let him finish out the season then release him. He built that program and at his age this could be devastating to him. On the other hand protecting children is paramount and apparently Joe failed.
Let me add a little perspective why JoePa had to be removed immediately one way or another, something that that you might or might not agree with.

Base on Grand Jury testimony, Paterno should not have been the Penn State coach all these years since the 2002 incident. And that goes for all those associated with Penn State who had knowledge of the incident but allowed Sandusky to continue to be associated with the university, plus had knowledge that Sandusky continued to be around young boys with his involvement with the Second Mile organization which he founded back in 1977. How in the world could these people turn a blind eye to this? This program continued to support this monster providing countless volunteers for the Second Mile program, which provided him a pool of victims, which at the moment spanned from 1994 to 2009. Since the org began in 1977, who knows how far back his assaults go, not to mention how many victims there have been since the 2002 incident.

Another strange thing that I heard was that he retired from coaching at the prime of his career, somewhere in his 50s and didn't go elsewhere to continue his career. It makes me wonder how many people and for how long knew about what he was doing and were more concerned about Penn State and containing what he had done, or even worse, what he might be continuing to do.

I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg and that others associated with Penn State who knew about Sandusky and maybe received reports of similar incidents kept on brushing it under the rug. I realize that a lot of victims and sadly parents of victims don't come forward, but is it possible that Mike McQueary was the only one to report his evil acts during all those years? Maybe that's the case, but regardless, how can anyone who was made aware of what he did, stand pat and do nothing while not only ignoring the fact that this monster continued to be around young boys, but to enable him to do so.

Really! Do any of you think Joe Paterno should be allowed to coach the remainder of this season? I'm not discounting all the good things he did for Penn State. I'm not saying that Paterno is a bad guy. But the fact is he along with those above him who did nothing were at a high enough level of leadership that they should have made sure this went to the police and was investigated.

As for McQueary, no matter what concerns he might have had or was put in his head by others, as the eye witness, one would have to think that he should have done a lot more. I don't know why he left w/out rescuing the boy from Sandusky. Maybe his intent was to quickly find another person as a corroborating witness of the act, but someone talked him out of returning. I haven't read the entire GJ testimony to see if he explained his actions. Many don't realize the power of denial. I can somewhat understand, but never accept or condone in this circumstance, those who heard what McQueary described he saw (who knows if he was afraid or ashamed to share exactly what he witnessed at the time) that they allowed the perception of who they thought Sandusky was to make them think that McQueary might have not seen what he thought he saw. Denial is such a strong element the closer you are to the perpetrator. No excuse! Just trying to postulate what was probably going through the heads of those who didn't use them at the time. Although McQueary was the eye witness and will likely increasingly garner the ire of many, he was likely influenced by others to let it go for the good of the program, the university and probably even grotesquely, Sandusky himself. Hard to even fathom that all those who were aware of what happened had little to no concern about the young victim. That is flat out disgusting. No once came to the aid of the one who was most vulnerable and helpless. Absolutely disgusting and inexcusable.

Now I don't know if the Board gave JoePa the option of resigning. I'm on the fence as to if they should have given him that option, based on all the good he's done for the university and community. Note that one does not nullify the other, meaning the failure to do what he should have in 2002, discounts all the good he has done, or all the good he has done should give him a pass on this failure. I do wonder if the board could have first announced putting him on administrative leave and then took steps to force him to resign or be fired in the coming days. That might have spared some of the riots last night...maybe not...but would have extended a little dignity to JoePa, something that many feel he does or doesn't deserve.

People make mistakes, but this was much bigger than just a mistake, when you think about what any human being should have done and the countless lives that were impacted after that by doing nothing, or better put, enabling this monster. With that said, I still wonder if the Board could have taken a slightly different course of action, as I described above, to act in the best interest of not only Penn State, but for the victims, the safety of those at College Park, and Joe Paterno. Regardless to how the situation could have been handled, in light of what we all know, Joe Pa needed to be removed as head coach immediately to quell the storm, to begin to dig deeper into who knew what and to move toward some sort of healing process for all.
 

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Thankful for the single laugh in this thread ("overeatting") to let me catch my breath, and thankful further still that the collective moral compass on this board points the way it does. I almost didn't want to open the thread for fear that I'd be reading, "Let the old man finish out his career" posts.
 
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There's just no way Penn St. could allow Paterno to coach another game. Period.

Honestly, I can't believe he didn't make the decision himself to step down.
 
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i agree. you can't let something like that go. the guy molested something like 8 boys? good grief, he should be in prison. and the fact (don't pretend to know if it's really a fact) that JoPa knew about some of it but didn't report it spells his end. i agree sad way for a legend to go out, but he made his proverbial bed and now, well...

I am trying to take the patient route here. I am hearing that things are going to get worse and that something is going to come out on Saturday. My assumption is that it is going to reveal that there was indeed a major cover-up on the part of everyone in teh chain of command, starting with Joepa and ending with the President. This could implicate Paterno

For now though, it is not accurate to say that Paterno didn't tell anyone.

Here are some quotes and their links:

"Schultz testified that he was called to a meeting with Joe Paterno and Tim Curley, in which Paterno reported "disturbing" and "inappropriate" conduct in the shower by Sandusky upon a young boy, as reported to him by a student or graduate student"

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov...Presentment.pdf (Page 8 last paragraph)

"But despite his job overseeing campus police, [Schultz] he never reported the 2002 allegations to any authorities, "never sought or received a police report on the 1998 incident and never attempted to learn the identity of the child in the shower in 2002," the jurors wrote. "No one from the university did so."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/11/07/penn.state.schultz.step.down.ap/index.html

So, Paterno had a meeting with the AD and Shultz, who oversaw the university police.
 
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It's an interesting point. It hearkens back to Tiger Woods - there appeared to be more of a concern for damage control than for true contrition.

Want to share with us exactly how you feel about Tiger?

Exactly how is Tiger linked to Paterno?

Peace,

John Fryer
 
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Want to share with us exactly how you feel about Tiger?

Exactly how is Tiger linker to Paterno?

Peace,

John Fryer
i'm with you. molesting "X" number of children is nothing like cheating on your wife. if the OP you are referring to was only referencing a cover up, there are better examples he could have used...
 
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Exactly how is Tiger linked to Paterno?
Not linked at all. The comparison that I drew was simply that, in the wake of a scandal, both men appear to be more concerned with protecting their legacy/careers than anything else. Tiger's issue, IMO, is with his wife and kids, and it's not even in the same universe as a man whose failure to act likely caused child rapes to occur.
I apologize if it seems I was comparing Tiger's deeds to Joe's. Not so.

But I think both men were thinking "damage control" right off the bat, and that's where I liken the two.
 
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