OT NFL Received Rice Tape in April

[BooRadley]

Keith Olbermann @KeithOlbermann · 9h
COMMENT: After report authorities sent NFL #RayRice tape in April, Roger Goodell is a Nixon and this is a Watergate (TWITTER)

Well, I've got to give it to ya... you've got irrefutable evidence when you have Keith Olbermann on your side... Yessiree bob... Game over.... if Olbermann invokes Nixon on ya... your a Nixon.

Boo

 

[msf22b]

Well, I've got to give it to ya... you've got irrefutable evidence when you have Keith Olbermann on your side... Yessiree bob... Game over.... if Olbermann invokes Nixon on ya... your a Nixon.

Boo

It's coming from all over the spectrum: Left, Right, Male, Female, Black, White, even current and of course retired, football players.
The vortex has begun
The outcome is pre-ordained.

Just have to wait a bit for the dinosaurs of ownership to gauge its lasting power (with a little help from their sponsors and congress).
There ain't no where to hide.

Honey, the toast is burning.

Michael

 

[BooRadley]

Well, he is a failure as a systems manager if something that important and that was requested by his office did not end up with his people. Either that or he is an immoral liar playing a grand game of CYA.

I understand that throwing outrageous definitive statements around about things like this is grand sport on forums but reasonability, fairness, and logic would dictate prudence. If the man is incompetent or of poor character he will pay the price once all of the relevent evidence is in hand, but leaping to the conclusion that he is "Either that or he is an immoral liar playing a grand game of CYA." is unsupported at this time. Constructing an opinion upon unfolding events in real time is foolish and unfair.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I gave up on the premier pro sports years ago, but it bothers me to see folks engage in a feeding frenzy mentality. Ice, with your post you've made leaps of logic that are unsupported at this time. It does no one good to allow emotionally driven attacks supplant one's reason.

I've never run a org with 1800+ people, but I have run 450+ companies and I do know that there has never been born a person that could 'know' what each of his/her staff is doing/accepting/saying/directing at all times. Managing is both art and science, personality driven and societally driven. Sometimes the situation allows for the the control a leader has to be direct and immediate, while most times it is more like pushing on the end of a string. One of the most difficult issues to deal with as a leader is that the larger the organization grows, the more that falls into the 'string pushing' side of the equation.

The tools of principles, mentoring, and the transparent display of the leader's personal character all fall in the string pushing side of the equation. Internal processes attempt to effect positive outcomes but they too are subject to all to frequent failure. Choosing which person is hired is and will always be a process that is susceptible to failure. People fail others with every tick of the clock as we are all imperfect. If just one of those 1800+ that this man leads fails him, you would have him declared a poor and/or immoral leader. Tell me of the person that you've met that could meet the standard to which you hold him? I'm not saying that I believe him to be innocent, competent, incompetent, reasonable, truthful, untruthful, of good character, or of bad character... what I am saying is that it is far to early to draw conclusions that could tarnish another's reputation.

I would suggest that we all let it play out. Allow the time needed for the facts to become visable and understood. To get a reasonable understanding of the relevent facts, take time to consider them and the issue in full context. And then, and only then begin to construct an opinion. There is no need to rush as rushing doesn't bring better outcomes... the best it can do is merely match a more prudent and cautious approach whereas a more prudent and cautious approach often produces superior outcomes.

So, again, let these things take the time they need to fully develop. None of us could know enough of what truly has happened to reach reasonable conclusions yet. Something stinks and there is more smoke than is dismissible but leaping to conclusions before we get a fuller understanding of the events is a worthless endeavor and it often treads into the frenzied land of mob mentality.

Boo

 

[BooRadley]

It's coming from all over the spectrum: Left, Right, Male, Female, Black, White, even current and of course retired, football players.
The vortex has begun
The outcome is pre-ordained.

Just have to wait a bit for the dinosaurs of ownership to gauge its lasting power (with a little help from their sponsors and congress).
There ain't no where to hide.

Honey, the toast is burning.

Michael

You would have been a hoot during the french revolution.

Like many revolutions, the French revolution had at it's root very good goals, but the part of human nature that drives us into frenzied and irrational conclusions led to terribly unnecessary misery for countless French peasants. Your passion is evident in your posts but your mature reason is not and it is that that reminded me of revolution's propensity for irrational actions driven by passion.

Just remember that we get the society that we help create. Enjoy your vortex and burnt toast.

Boo

 

[msf22b]

I understand that throwing outrageous definitive statements around about things like this is grand sport on forums but reasonability, fairness, and logic would dictate prudence. If the man is incompetent or of poor character he will pay the price once all of the relevent evidence is in hand, but leaping to the conclusion that he is "Either that or he is an immoral liar playing a grand game of CYA." is unsupported at this time. Constructing an opinion upon unfolding events in real time is foolish and unfair.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I gave up on the premier pro sports years ago, but it bothers me to see folks engage in a feeding frenz.

Boo

Wonderful post Boo.
As for me, I've been just having a good ole time poking my finger in the eye of these arrogant suits.
Done my thing, happy to now wait for the inevitable latest.

M

 

[Icebear]

I understand that throwing outrageous definitive statements around about things like this is grand sport on forums but reasonability, fairness, and logic would dictate prudence. If the man is incompetent or of poor character he will pay the price once all of the relevent evidence is in hand, but leaping to the conclusion that he is "Either that or he is an immoral liar playing a grand game of CYA." is unsupported at this time. Constructing an opinion upon unfolding events in real time is foolish and unfair.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I gave up on the premier pro sports years ago, but it bothers me to see folks engage in a feeding frenzy mentality. Ice, with your post you've made leaps of logic that are unsupported at this time. It does no one good to allow emotionally driven attacks supplant one's reason.

I've never run a org with 1800+ people, but I have run 450+ companies and I do know that there has never been born a person that could 'know' what each of his/her staff is doing/accepting/saying/directing at all times. Managing is both art and science, personality driven and societally driven. Sometimes the situation allows for the the control a leader has to be direct and immediate, while most times it is more like pushing on the end of a string. One of the most difficult issues to deal with as a leader is that the larger the organization grows, the more that falls into the 'string pushing' side of the equation.

The tools of principles, mentoring, and the transparent display of the leader's personal character all fall in the string pushing side of the equation. Internal processes attempt to effect positive outcomes but they too are subject to all to frequent failure. Choosing which person is hired is and will always be a process that is susceptible to failure. People fail others with every tick of the clock as we are all imperfect. If just one of those 1800+ that this man leads fails him, you would have him declared a poor and/or immoral leader. Tell me of the person that you've met that could meet the standard to which you hold him? I'm not saying that I believe him to be innocent, competent, incompetent, reasonable, truthful, untruthful, of good character, or of bad character... what I am saying is that it is far to early to draw conclusions that could tarnish another's reputation.

I would suggest that we all let it play out. Allow the time needed for the facts to become visable and understood. To get a reasonable understanding of the relevent facts, take time to consider them and the issue in full context. And then, and only then begin to construct an opinion. There is no need to rush as rushing doesn't bring better outcomes... the best it can do is merely match a more prudent and cautious approach whereas a more prudent and cautious approach often produces superior outcomes.

So, again, let these things take the time they need to fully develop. None of us could know enough of what truly has happened to reach reasonable conclusions yet. Something stinks and there is more smoke than is dismissible but leaping to conclusions before we get a fuller understanding of the events is a worthless endeavor and it often treads into the frenzied land of mob mentality.

Boo

Sorry, Boo, but as someone who deals with the ugly side of domestic abuse I have zero tolerance for those who help perpetuate it. The NFL has done this for years. You are absolutely correct that we get the society we help to correct and that is why the strongest possible action must be taken. Goodell has a history preceeding these events. There is presently another case under Goodell's responsibility that has already had adjudication and a guilty verdict. It is under appeal but the individual should be suspended now with pay until the case is finalized.

 

[BooRadley]

Sorry, Boo, but as someone who deals with the ugly side of domestic abuse I have zero tolerance for those who help perpetuate it. The NFL has done this for years. You are absolutely correct that we get the society we help to correct and that is why the strongest possible action must be taken. Goodell has a history preceeding these events.

Evidently, you didn't understand a word I wrote. I made no comment on this issue of domestic abuse... you can't control the actions of others, especially after those actions are part of history, but we all can control our actions as we respond to that history. Taking time to let this thing unfold is not just a nice thing to say, it is important to do if we are to understand what has happened and how to best respond. Letting passion control our actions is a formula that human history has shown to be disasterous.

Boo

 

[Icebear]

Evidently, you didn't understand a word I wrote. I made no comment on this issue of domestic abuse... you can't control the actions of others, especially after those actions are part of history, but we all can control our actions as we respond to that history. Taking time to let this thing unfold is not just a nice thing to say, it is important to do if we are to understand what has happened and how to best respond. Letting passion control our actions is a formula that human history has shown to be disasterous.

Boo

I was explaining why I am so passionate. He has admitted his has lied a several points.

 

[Alydar]

The NFL keeps talking about who did or diddn't SEE the video. A question that needs to also be asked is whether the NFL knew they had the tape and was advised to intentionally refrained from watching it in order to have deniability.

Having worked in an organization with PR concerns I can attest that statements concerning potentially embarrassing issues put out to the public are carefully worded after hours of meetings and legal advise. It's as important to understanding these statements to see what these statements don't say in addition to what they do say. In this case the NFL doesn't say that they were unaware of what was on the DVD, just that Roger didn't see it. It may well be that they hired an outsider (lawyer) to view the DVD and to report to them whether it was damaging without detailing what was on the DVD. That way Roger could take the steps he did and say that he never viewed the video without his nose growing.

 

[BooRadley]

I was explaining why I am so passionate. He has admitted his has lied a several points.

Ice, you and I have talked about our pasts. You know that I grew up in a home that was not just a safe and happy place for my brothers to grow up in but was also a 'safe' house for battered women and pregnant teens. I am grateful to my parents for engaging the problem in a real and meaningful way even if that meant that they disrupted the normal flow of our home by taking in women, young and old, that needed a safe haven, a sense of normalcy and the quite time needed to reduce their fear filled vibrations that jittered to the frequency of violence to a point where they could think clearly enough to sort their way through the system... and that's when they could move on... I get the passion, but I caution against allowing passion to play a role in one's thinking processes.

Passion can be addicting because it tells us loud and clear that we are right and that we are better than some other wretched person. It scratches our innermost itches. It makes us feel good about ourselves. As passion consumes, the costs of passion come into play.... the threshold for tolerance our differences diminishes and the standards of proof relax, both of which are to be avoided. It becomes all to easy to find fault in others and far far too easy to take that next step into vilifying another without truly understanding the issue. Passion makes us speed up... it makes us rush to judgement. Passion is good when under control, but once it begins to take control, watch out.... things are about to find their way to horrible and then onto even more horrible... Human history is replete with examples of the bad has been done in the name of doing something good once folks convince themselves of the 'rightness' of their mission. So, we all should be beware of passion... it can be dangerous.

Lets let this thing play out before we strap the next witch to the dunking stool.

Boo