OT: NBA SemiFinals

[CallMeBruce]

Including biracials is just silly. Black people tend to follow the one drop rule, nearly without exception. Biracials are regarded by them as being black, period.

Yes, that's the part that's silly.

 

[boba]

This made me laugh. You're out of your element and you sound ridiculous.

That post has me wondering if "Taste" is Frank Ivy's new handle. Only Frank could pack that much stupid into any given post.

 

[TasteofUConn]

The finals is going to be all about matchups and health. Nobody on the GSWs is particularly dominant other than Steph The Jedi Curry, who is otherworldly. As he goes, so will the GSWs go. The question becomes can the taller Cavs dog him enough to disrupt him and contain him. If they can, then it could be a great series. If they can't, then the GSWs would seem to be the strong favorites. As for throwing people at LeBron, the GSWs gave up 128, 98, and 106 in 3 of the 4 games. Their defense doesn't look as good as their #1 ranking this season.
In the post season, Cleveland is #1 in points allowed, #2 in points per shot, #1 in FG%, #1 in 3pt FG% - by a lot at .281%. GSWs are somewhere in the 3-6 range for most of those. Sure, sure, I know the east sucks and the Cav's #s are all therefore skewed horribly, but there is a very clear trend for the Cavaliers, and that is their defense has tightened up considerably in the post season. And I'll say it, notwithstanding the fact that I liked the Love trade - Love on the bench makes them a better defensive team - they are fairly long and quick. And with Dirty Dela, they can play hardball .

 

[superjohn]

What on earth constitutes a flagrant in the NBA? Howard just set a pick by giving a forearm shiver to Iguadola's shoulder/neck and it's not a flagrant. He gives a playful little push to Bogut's chest in the first half and it's a flagrant. He swings at Bogut's face last game and it's just a flagrant. There is no rhyme or reason as to how things are officiated.

 

[Gurleyman]

John Starks could be off the hook in terms of most memorable Game 7 train wreck. Although his was in the finals.

 

[superjohn]

John Starks could be off the hook in terms of most memorable Game 7 train wreck. Although his was in the finals.

Doubtful that a superstar has ever had that bad of a performance in a big game. 13 turnovers with 2 field goals, he was dribbling it off his freaking foot.

 

[Gurleyman]

Doubtful that a superstar has ever had that bad of a performance in a big game. 13 turnovers with 2 field goals, he was dribbling it off his freaking foot.

Darn - you quoted me after I wrote "game 7" instead of "elimination game". Got my brain turned in knots.

 

[tjhusky]

What on earth constitutes a flagrant in the NBA? Howard just set a pick by giving a forearm shiver to Iguadola's shoulder/neck and it's not a flagrant. He gives a playful little push to Bogut's chest in the first half and it's a flagrant. He swings at Bogut's face last game and it's just a flagrant. There is no rhyme or reason as to how things are officiated.

The NBA doesn't care 1 bit about Dan Hurley's thug play. He should have been ejected last game and the league could have done that after the fact.

Tonight he clearly stepped into Iguadolo to get the full force of his weight into the hit. He aimed right at his head and made a square hit. Terrible calls and no league fines are a joke.

 

[Robertelamin]

Meh, he had nothing to lose at that point since he would likely have been gone the next game anyway. I do think the NBA needs to revisit how they call the flagrant fouls with all the refs. it is too inconsistent.

 

[bfair]

bron is the best player ever and he will prove it this finals... Betting my house on it!!! I love curry and love watching him but lebron is out to prove something and make the city of cleveland's dream come true... cleveland in 5

 

[tzznandrew]

bron is the best player ever and he will prove it this finals... Betting my house on it!!! I love curry and love watching him but lebron is out to prove something and make the city of cleveland's dream come true... cleveland in 5

1) He's not the best player ever, at least not yet.
2) Is your house also bet on Cleveland in 5, specifically? What do I have to do to get in on that bet, because you have him beating Golden State on the road twice in three games...when they've only lost at home three times all year.

I get people who think since LeBron is the best player he should win this series, but, as I've pointed out, this reminds me of last year. He's taken a fundamentally flawed team to the Finals, but that team hasn't looked as flawed as they are because the East is garbage. This Cavs team is probably equivalent to last year's Heat, but the Warriors are better than last year's Spurs.

 

[TasteofUConn]

bron is the best player ever and he will prove it this finals... Betting my house on it!!!

Do you live in Detroit?

 

[TasteofUConn]

What do I have to do to get in on that bet, because you have him beating Golden State on the road twice in three games...

Seems impossible at this point. Less heart-driven Cavs fans are praying to for the proverbial "steal one" at GS and then fight like mad to win at home. Should be a fun series. Hope CT is okay - bleeding from the ear is just awful.

 

[CallMeBruce]

The Warriors are definitely the better, more complete team, but nobody on that team is as good as Bron, so I wouldn't be shocked if he pulled something off. I'm still betting the Warriors hold serve and win in 7.

 

[tzznandrew]

The Warriors are definitely the better, more complete team, but nobody on that team is as good as Bron, so I wouldn't be shocked if he pulled something off. I'm still betting the Warriors hold serve and win in 7.

That's how I feel. If the Cavs win, it's going to be a hard fought series; they won't run away from the Warriors. The Warriors, on the other hand, could run away with the series.

You have to expect there's one game LeBron just plays out of his mind, and you have to hope that Irving is healthy enough to have one of those vintage Irving games. That happens, and they pull off those two games, the Cavs have a real shot.

Thompson's injury could play a role, if the concussion syndromes aren't gone by Game 1. But we also have until 6/4 until Game 1. Should help Clay and Kyrie.

I wish Love were healthy so that we could see the series at it's apex.

 

[Hoophound]

I'd love to see this series with Love playing. Nonetheless, I think LeBron can elevate his team and win it. His supporting cast has really grown into their roles and they went from struggling to steamrolling. It definitely seems that the Warriors are a more complete team but the Cavs have LeBron and then they have assassin types like J.R. Smith. They aren't the type of team to lack confidence. I think the first team that blinks at home loses and I expect the Cavs to win once in the first 2 games. So, I say Cavs in 6.

 

[tzznandrew]

I'd love to see this series with Love playing. Nonetheless, I think LeBron can elevate his team and win it. His supporting cast has really grown into their roles and they went from struggling to steamrolling. It definitely seems that the Warriors are a more complete team but the Cavs have LeBron and then they have assassin types like J.R. Smith. They aren't the type of team to lack confidence. I think the first team that blinks at home loses and I expect the Cavs to win once in the first 2 games. So, I say Cavs in 6.

Let's remember who they steamrolled. They didn't steamroll the Bulls. They steamrolled an injured and mediocre Hawks team.

Meanwhile, the Warriors have beaten 3 teams that would give the Cavs a series, and did so losing only one more game.

The Cavs look good. But they did so against a subpar team (subpar due to key injuries).

 

[Hoophound]

Let's remember who they steamrolled. They didn't steamroll the Bulls. They steamrolled an injured and mediocre Hawks team. Meanwhile, the Warriors have beaten 3 teams that would give the Cavs a series, and did so losing only one more game. The Cavs look good. But they did so against a subpar team (subpar due to key injuries).

I agree with you, and but I feel like the Cavs are playing the best that they have all year. Being a UConn fan, that means a lot. LeBron can completely carry a decent cast of characters. He's definitely got that to work with. I agree, the Warriors are better, but I just have a feeling this is the year LeBron establishes himself as a Jordan level talent.

 

[Scoe]

Im torn on who to pick you look at it on paper and the season as a whole you would take GS, the eye test tells you Cleveland of late I know they have come out of the east but how have they done against those teams steam roll them. If Lebron wins it he is in the discussion for GOAT, if Curry wins it he's already a 1st ballot HOF, he's already a lock for the Hall.

Lebron will be ready but will his team mates is the question. Remember in in the 1990 playoffs MJ was ready to win a title and his younger teammates were not they were a year away. Lebron will have to be a little selfish and play like MJ did in the 93 Finals. JR and Kyrie will have to average about 20 in this series, and other guys will have to average anywhere from 6-10 a game. The Cavs will be favored next year they would have more experience and a healthy Kevin Love (assuming he returns) and Varajeo. I say it goes 7 games and I say Cleveland pulls it off if Kyrie is healthy but if he's not then GS in 6.

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree with you, and but I feel like the Cavs are playing the best that they have all year. Being a UConn fan, that means a lot. LeBron can completely carry a decent cast of characters. He's definitely got that to work with. I agree, the Warriors are better, but I just have a feeling this is the year LeBron establishes himself as a Jordan level talent.

He can carry a team to the Finals, but in 2007 and 2014 he had the clearly inferior team, and got trucked each time.

I also don't get this narrative that the Cavs are steam-rolling people.

They did beat a sub-.500 Celtics team in 4, but only 1 of those games was decided by double figures. Granted, no one thought the Cavs would lose, but this was with Love. Against the Bulls, they were a corner 3 from being down 3-1. If and buts, I know, but that was a close series that could go either way, certainly not a steam-roll.

And then we come to the Hawks. They killed a Korver-less, Carroll-less, Thabo-less Hawks team already down 3-0 in Game 4. But Game 3 was an OT game and 1-2 were close throughout. These weren't blowouts. I mean, who is better, the current Hawks, minus their only player who can guard LeBron and a few others, or the Rockets? The Warriors margin of victory in wins was better than the Cavs margin of victory.

TL;DR: The Cavs beat the 40-win Celtics, 50-win Bulls, and 60-win (but hugely injured) Hawks by an average of 10.75ppg; the Warriors beat the 45-win Pelicans, 55-win Grizzlies, and 56-win Rockets by an average of 12.6ppg.

 

[James]

didn't really care to generate a new thread. but tom Thibs thibodeau , a new britain high alum, has been fired this afternoon at a meeting with management by gar forman and the chicago bulls. forman's offical statement was a bit uncouth as he insinuates thibs was not trustworthy and whole bunch of other crap. Where does he land next? the magic would have to be half tarded to chase scott skiles ( a below average nba coach) over him.

 

[tzznandrew]

The problem with Thibs is that he's going to wear your best players down. His defense is fantastic, his offense is mediocre, and you'll get a bunch of regular season wins before your players crash in the playoffs.

I'd be leery of hiring him without getting some sort of minute-reduction assurances.

 

[jfuchs91]

1) He's not the best player ever, at least not yet.
2) Is your house also bet on Cleveland in 5, specifically? What do I have to do to get in on that bet, because you have him beating Golden State on the road twice in three games...when they've only lost at home three times all year.

I get people who think since LeBron is the best player he should win this series, but, as I've pointed out, this reminds me of last year. He's taken a fundamentally flawed team to the Finals, but that team hasn't looked as flawed as they are because the East is garbage. This Cavs team is probably equivalent to last year's Heat, but the Warriors are better than last year's Spurs.

The Warriors had a historic regular season and have backed it up in the playoffs, no doubt. But the Spurs caught fire in the Finals last year. No team was beating them with the way they were shooting and defending. If the Warriors shoot like the Spurs did in the last Finals, this will be a quick series.

Golden State has the superior team to Cleveland, but they're not unbeatable by any stretch. If Kyrie can heal up in the next week, it's going to be a very interesting series. The Warriors struggle to score in the paint at times, and if their shots aren't consistently falling, they could struggle.

What the Warriors do have going for them is multiple guys to throw at LeBron. The problem being that no one player can guard LeBron, and the difference between this Cavs team and his teams in Miami is that LeBron has more space to work with this year, and Tristian Thompson has been an animal on the offensive boards. Also, the Cavs have ramped up their defense in the playoffs and have the athletic wing players that could cause some trouble for Golden State's shooters.

As a basketball fan, this was the series I wanted to see. The Warriors are as deep a team as I can remember, and probably the best shooting team of all-time. But LeBron could very well end up being the best player ever, and even if the pieces around him aren't the most talented, they complement his skills very well.

I'm inclined to say Golden State should win this series, but it's tough to bet against the team with the best player. I just hope the series goes at least 6 games either way, as it'll be a long summer without any more basketball.

 

[superjohn]

To all the people wishing Love was healthy for the series, I think it was a blessing in disguise for the Cavs that he went down. The Cavs discovered what a beast Thompson is and he just fits what they do a lot better than Love. People can talk all they want about Love spacing the floor but their spacing looks even better with him out. The defense improved dramatically, they can go really big with Thompson and Mosgov and their spacing has been great with knock down shooters on the wing. Another thing, people saying Cavs didn't have to play anyone because the East is so weak, it's true but the Warriors also lucked out not having to play the Spurs and Clippers.

 

[tzznandrew]

The Warriors had a historic regular season and have backed it up in the playoffs, no doubt. But the Spurs caught fire in the Finals last year. No team was beating them with the way they were shooting and defending. If the Warriors shoot like the Spurs did in the last Finals, this will be a quick series.

Golden State has the superior team to Cleveland, but they're not unbeatable by any stretch. If Kyrie can heal up in the next week, it's going to be a very interesting series. The Warriors struggle to score in the paint at times, and if their shots aren't consistently falling, they could struggle.

What the Warriors do have going for them is multiple guys to throw at LeBron. The problem being that no one player can guard LeBron, and the difference between this Cavs team and his teams in Miami is that LeBron has more space to work with this year, and Tristian Thompson has been an animal on the offensive boards. Also, the Cavs have ramped up their defense in the playoffs and have the athletic wing players that could cause some trouble for Golden State's shooters.

As a basketball fan, this was the series I wanted to see. The Warriors are as deep a team as I can remember, and probably the best shooting team of all-time. But LeBron could very well end up being the best player ever, and even if the pieces around him aren't the most talented, they complement his skills very well.

I'm inclined to say Golden State should win this series, but it's tough to bet against the team with the best player. I just hope the series goes at least 6 games either way, as it'll be a long summer without any more basketball.

This will be long. Warning.

I agree with much of this, although I think we can quibble about the Spurs. They were playing incredibly well, but I think part of that was the Heat weren't as good as people thought. That's my fear for this series.

And a point of disagreement here: LeBron has been the best player in the series in 5 NBA Finals so far, and lost 3 of them. This Cavs team is not better than the 2011-13 Heat. They're probably better than last year's Heat team--and next year they'll probably be on par with or better than the 2012 Heat.

I generally don't think the "best player in the series will win" argument holds up in the Finals, post-MJ (I'd go further back, but why?)

1999: Duncan was the best player, but the Spurs were way better than the 8-seed Knicks (37 vs. 27 wins)
2000: Shaq was the best player, but the Lakers were better than the Pacers all season (67 wins vs. 56)
2001: Shaq; Lakers > Sixers (same record [56 wins each], but Lakers went 15-1 in the playoffs)
2002: Shaq; Lakers > Nets (58 vs. 52)
2003: Duncan; Spurs >> Nets (60 vs. 49)
2004: Shaq or Kobe; the two teams were roughly equal (56 v. 54 wins), but the Pistons were the better team by the end of the year, and won despite the Lakers having the two best players on the floor
2005: Duncan; Spurs were the better team in the regular season (59 vs. 54), but the two teams were equal, so I'd say this is the first series where the best player definitively made the difference rather than the team merely being better (despite the best moment coming from Horry)
2006: Wade; Dallas was the better team (60 vs. 52), and this is another example of the best player willing a team to a title...although there were some shenanigans with a game-fixing ref...
2007: LeBron; Spurs were way better (58 vs. 50) and swept them. There were some close games in Cleveland, but the Cavs couldn't even muster a win.
2008: Kobe; Celtics and Lakers were near equals (66 wins for the Celtics, 58 for Lakers...who were much better after the mid-season trade), but the C's won. Again, team over player.
2009: Kobe; Lakers were a 65 win team, Magic 59. I think the Lakers were the better team, but maybe this is like the 2005 series.
2010: Kobe; Lakers were better (57 vs. 50), and had the best player, yet needed an injury to survive.
2011: LeBron; Mavs won...teams were roughly equal (58 wins Heat, 57 Mavs), but the better team won.
2012: LeBron; teams had similar records, so I'd guess this goes with best player makes the difference
2013: LeBron; Heat were a 66-win team, Spurs 58-win, but these teams were equals by the Finals. But by the grace of Ray, this would have gone in the other column.
2014: LeBron; Spurs were almost 10-wins better. Better team wins.

All this to say, I think the "best player makes the difference" is largely bunk. The better player's team won 11 of those 16 series, but in 6, maybe 7 of those series, the best player was on the best team. If you eliminate those, and just look at toss-ups (2004, 2005, 2008, 2011, 2012, 2013), the team with the best player went 3-3. If you add 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2014, that becomes 6-4. You can add in 2001, since the Lakers and Sixers had the same record, but no one thought the series would be close.

Feels like statistical noise.

Meanwhile, teams with the best player, and more than 5 wins fewer than the opposing team, went 1-3.

 

[tzznandrew]

To all the people wishing Love was healthy for the series, I think it was a blessing in disguise for the Cavs that he went down. The Cavs discovered what a beast Thompson is and he just fits what they do a lot better than Love. People can talk all they want about Love spacing the floor but their spacing looks even better with him out. The defense improved dramatically, they can go really big with Thompson and Mosgov and their spacing has been great with knock down shooters on the wing. Another thing, people saying Cavs didn't have to play anyone because the East is so weak, it's true but the Warriors also lucked out not having to play the Spurs and Clippers.

We'll see. The Rockets and Grizzlies are better than anyone the Cavs played, and the Pelicans were better than the Celtics and injured Bulls. Maybe even better than the injured Hawks...who got there by struggling against the injured Wizards.

As for Love: I think the Cavs look better now because they aren't playing teams (I'll stop, broken record, I know), but we'll see.

But remember, the Cavs haven't played a healthy team with a star offensive player (Rose isn't Rose), whereas the Warriors have played against Harden and Davis.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

It feels strange to be rooting for Lebron, but I'd definitely like to see Cleveland pull this off. Would be an incredible achievement with this cast of characters. Imagine Shumpert and JR Smith on the trash heap in NY six months ago and now playing for a ring. I get that the MVP award is never about who is literally the most "valuable" player but is there any question who the most valuable player in basketball is?

 

[superjohn]

It feels strange to be rooting for Lebron, but I'd definitely like to see Cleveland pull this off. Would be an incredible achievement with this cast of characters. Imagine Shumpert and JR Smith on the trash heap in NY six months ago and now playing for a ring. I get that the MVP award is never about who is literally the most "valuable" player but is there any question who the most valuable player in basketball is?

He's the best and most valuable player in the world but if they win it Phil Jackson better get another ring, everyone knew JR and Shumpert are players and Phil gave them up for a bag of chips, I never knew Mozgov was this good though.

 

[jfuchs91]

This will be long. Warning.

I agree with much of this, although I think we can quibble about the Spurs. They were playing incredibly well, but I think part of that was the Heat weren't as good as people thought. That's my fear for this series.

And a point of disagreement here: LeBron has been the best player in the series in 5 NBA Finals so far, and lost 3 of them. This Cavs team is not better than the 2011-13 Heat. They're probably better than last year's Heat team--and next year they'll probably be on par with or better than the 2012 Heat.

I generally don't think the "best player in the series will win" argument holds up in the Finals, post-MJ (I'd go further back, but why?)

1999: Duncan was the best player, but the Spurs were way better than the 8-seed Knicks (37 vs. 27 wins)
2000: Shaq was the best player, but the Lakers were better than the Pacers all season (67 wins vs. 56)
2001: Shaq; Lakers > Sixers (same record [56 wins each], but Lakers went 15-1 in the playoffs)
2002: Shaq; Lakers > Nets (58 vs. 52)
2003: Duncan; Spurs >> Nets (60 vs. 49)
2004: Shaq or Kobe; the two teams were roughly equal (56 v. 54 wins), but the Pistons were the better team by the end of the year, and won despite the Lakers having the two best players on the floor
2005: Duncan; Spurs were the better team in the regular season (59 vs. 54), but the two teams were equal, so I'd say this is the first series where the best player definitively made the difference rather than the team merely being better (despite the best moment coming from Horry)
2006: Wade; Dallas was the better team (60 vs. 52), and this is another example of the best player willing a team to a title...although there were some shenanigans with a game-fixing ref...
2007: LeBron; Spurs were way better (58 vs. 50) and swept them. There were some close games in Cleveland, but the Cavs couldn't even muster a win.
2008: Kobe; Celtics and Lakers were near equals (66 wins for the Celtics, 58 for Lakers...who were much better after the mid-season trade), but the C's won. Again, team over player.
2009: Kobe; Lakers were a 65 win team, Magic 59. I think the Lakers were the better team, but maybe this is like the 2005 series.
2010: Kobe; Lakers were better (57 vs. 50), and had the best player, yet needed an injury to survive.
2011: LeBron; Mavs won...teams were roughly equal (58 wins Heat, 57 Mavs), but the better team won.
2012: LeBron; teams had similar records, so I'd guess this goes with best player makes the difference
2013: LeBron; Heat were a 66-win team, Spurs 58-win, but these teams were equals by the Finals. But by the grace of Ray, this would have gone in the other column.
2014: LeBron; Spurs were almost 10-wins better. Better team wins.

All this to say, I think the "best player makes the difference" is largely bunk. The better player's team won 11 of those 16 series, but in 6, maybe 7 of those series, the best player was on the best team. If you eliminate those, and just look at toss-ups (2004, 2005, 2008, 2011, 2012, 2013), the team with the best player went 3-3. If you add 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2014, that becomes 6-4. You can add in 2001, since the Lakers and Sixers had the same record, but no one thought the series would be close.

Feels like statistical noise.

Meanwhile, teams with the best player, and more than 5 wins fewer than the opposing team, went 1-3.

Basketball is a team sport. Of course the better team will win more often than not.

The point is that transcendent players like LeBron impact the game in such a way that opposing teams are forced to alter their game-plans and become less effective than they usually are. The Warriors are billed as a jump-shooting team, but they're more than that; they also had the best defensive efficiency in the league during the regular season by a fairly wide margin. However, one of their few losses came against the Cavs when LeBron dominated and the Warriors had no answer (he did not play in their matchup in Oakland).

Additionally, the Finals are a new stage. No one on the Warriors has been there before, whereas the Spurs and even the Mavericks had extensive postseason experience to draw upon. Now granted, most of the Cavs players and coaches haven't been there before either, but they'll be led by a player who has played in the Finals in half of his 12 NBA seasons. Don't overlook the impact of experience, just look at our Huskies. In fact, I bet if you went back and looked at the teams that won the NBA Finals, you'll see that nearly all were experienced squads.

Lastly, who each of these teams beat to get here really doesn't tell us much about how this specific series will go. Did the Warriors have a tougher road to get to the Finals? Of course they did. But that's thrown at the window now. It's Warriors-Cavaliers, first to four wins. The Warriors have been the NBA's best team all season, and the Cavs are playing their best basketball of the year at the right time. It should be a great series.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

didn't really care to generate a new thread. but tom Thibs thibodeau , a new britain high alum, has been fired this afternoon at a meeting with management by gar forman and the chicago bulls. forman's offical statement was a bit uncouth as he insinuates thibs was not trustworthy and whole bunch of other crap. Where does he land next? the magic would have to be half tarded to chase scott skiles ( a below average nba coach) over him.

Strange as it sounds, he has a big fan in Cleveland...goes by the name Lebron something.. If they lose to Golden State (and they should, but I hope they win) I could see him with the Cavs next year. He could bring a new level of defense to that team and Lebron runs the offense already, so no need for an offensive mastermind as an assistant.