OT: Most overrated coaches as voted by the coaches | The Boneyard

OT: Most overrated coaches as voted by the coaches

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Should've posted this in the "Recruits overwhelmingly like Ollie as next UConn coach" thread.

Good points.
 
On Roy Williams: "He's won at Kansas and UNC. But who couldn't do that ... besides Matt Doherty?"




On Jay Wright: "I'll tell you this about Villanova and Jay Wright. In all our prep over the years, he's the only coach we never prepared a scouting report for."
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Ouch and ouch.
 
I've had many of those same guys on my most over-rated list...Lavin, Wright and Boeheim get lots of credit for limited accomplishments. Not sure how Rick Barnes got on that list though. How can you be over rated if every one knows you're lousy?
 
I completely agree with Boeheim on this list. Hes compiled a lot of wins but the post season success is not there. He should have a lot more final fours and national championships for a guy whos won almost 900 games.
 
freescooter said:
I've had many of those same guys on my most over-rated list...Lavin, Wright and Boeheim get lots of credit for limited accomplishments. Not sure how Rick Barnes got on that list though. How can you be over rated if every one knows you're lousy?
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Lavin actually gets almost no credit at all. He's been maligned since he was at UCLA. "Overrated" is not a word that comes to mind for a guy that was run out at UCLA and had a respectable record, and whom most continue to malign.
 
I know this board loves to trounce RW, but the guy has won 2 championships and been to 7 final fours- I don't find that overrated. People will be quick to say that his teams are always loaded; which often times they are. But you can't kill the coach when the talented teams underachieve and then give the coach no credit when they win. Also, he did take a Kansas team that was on probation and made them a force again in no time.

There's no way I can say Boeheim overrated either. His teams have not always been all that talented but every year you know they will have at least 20 wins and be a difficult matchup. He won a championship when he did not have the best team, took a mediocre team to the championship game, and was a historic last second shot from a 2nd championship.

I totally understand some of the guys on the list like Wright and Barnes, but if you've been to multiple final fours and won championships, then to me you really can't be overrated.
 
Boeheim had the best player when he won the big one. Very lucky that year that he did not have to face Vermont or Richmond. Aside from that year he has not been to the Elite 8 in FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!Poor coach with the talent he gets.
 
freescooter said:
I've had many of those same guys on my most over-rated list...Lavin, Wright and Boeheim get lots of credit for limited accomplishments. Not sure how Rick Barnes got on that list though. How can you be over rated if every one knows you're lousy?
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hey, we agree on something :)
 
Husky1964 said:
Boeheim had the best player when he won the big one. Very lucky that year that he did not have to face Vermont or Richmond. Aside from that year he has not been to the Elite 8 in FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!Poor coach with the talent he gets.
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But with that championship logic couldn't you then discount two of our titles a bit? If Boeheim "only" won b/c he had the best player, then what about 2011 w/ us? No one in the universe will say that JC only won b/c of Kemba. That Cuse team had Carmelo, obviously a great, great player. But a young Warrick, freshmen McNamera and that's really about it. You could argue that Kemba actually had more talent around him.

Or to take it further, in 04 we had the #2 and #3 picks in the draft plus 3 other future (albeit they were all young) first round draft picks. Did JC only get the title b/c of them? Would Roy Williams have won w/ the same team? I say yes without a doubt.

Cuse has underachieved a bit but I can't say that Boeheim is overrated as a coach. Rick Barnes and Jay Wright, definitely. Thad Matta, yes. But Boeheim and Roy Williams? No way.
 
Roy's peers consider him the most overrated coach and that is good enough for me. You think Roy beats coach K in 2004? I seriously doubt it.
 
boog204 said:
But with that championship logic couldn't you then discount two of our titles a bit? If Boeheim "only" won b/c he had the best player, then what about 2011 w/ us? No one in the universe will say that JC only won b/c of Kemba. That Cuse team had Carmelo, obviously a great, great player. But a young Warrick, freshmen McNamera and that's really about it. You could argue that Kemba actually had more talent around him.

Or to take it further, in 04 we had the #2 and #3 picks in the draft plus 3 other future (albeit they were all young) first round draft picks. Did JC only get the title b/c of them? Would Roy Williams have won w/ the same team? I say yes without a doubt.

Cuse has underachieved a bit but I can't say that Boeheim is overrated as a coach. Rick Barnes and Jay Wright, definitely. Thad Matta, yes. But Boeheim and Roy Williams? No way.
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You can use that logic for 2011 - UConn, around the best player in the country, got extremely hot at the right time. In fact, I'd have to say 2011 UConn was the worst championship team since the 2000s (even though they were my favorite).

But 2004? No. That team was the best/second best team in the country once it healthy and rolling late in the year. They would've run 2003 Syracuse right out of the building. (If I'm remembering correctly, didn't they do that...twice...in 2003, when they were younger and didn't have Boone or Villanueva?)

On a different note, Roy Williams being on that list is just silly. Sure, he's benefited greatly from having two of the easiest coaching jobs in the country, but two championships, seven Final Fours, and an .800 winning percentage is...well, two championships, seven Final Fours, and an .800 winning percentage.
 
UConn990411 said:
But 2004? No. That team was the best/second best team in the country once it healthy and rolling late in the year. They would've run 2003 Syracuse right out of the building. (If I'm remembering correctly, didn't they do that...twice...in 2003, when they were younger and didn't have Boone or Villanueva?)
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and this above is a reason that Boeheim should be given more credit for his 'ship then he is given. That 03 Cuse was not that good. You have Carmelo, a young Warrick and Gerry Mac, and then nothing. Craig Forth was the center for god sakes. That guy was heinous. Our 03 team beat them at least twice (was it 3 times or did we lose to them in the BET?). But when people talk about Boeheim and that team it's always about how they had Carmelo and that's it. In fact, I think our 11 team w/ Kemba, Lamb, the good AO, Bazz, and Roscoe is comparable to that 03 Cuse team. The best player in the country surrounded by young, unproven players.
 
UConn990411 said:
But 2004? No. That team was the best/second best team in the country once it healthy and rolling late in the year. They would've run 2003 Syracuse right out of the building. (If I'm remembering correctly, didn't they do that...twice...in 2003, when they were younger and didn't have Boone or Villanueva?).
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You are right, the 04 team was loaded. We won and no one takes credit away from JC by saying his team was loaded. But RW's peers say he only wins b/c his teams are loaded and when he hasn't it proves he's an overrated coach. Seems quite hypocritical and petty. On that same level, I always thought our 94 (Donyell, Ray, Donny, Sheffer, Ollie), 96 (Ray and Sheffer), and 06 teams (Rudy, etc.) were absolutely loaded. But we choked in different ways in all those years. No one here would dare say that JC is overrated b/c he didn't win w/ those teams. But Boeheim, Roy, even Coach K have been criticized for "choking" w/ loaded teams.
 
I wasn't commenting on whether I think Boeheim is overrated or not - I just don't think the '03 Syracuse team is comparable to the '04 UConn team. One was clearly a top 2 team that year, the other got hot on the back of the best player in the country.
 
UConn990411 said:
I wasn't commenting on whether I think Boeheim is overrated or not - I just don't think the '03 Syracuse team is comparable to the '04 UConn team. One was clearly a top 2 team that year, the other got hot on the back of the best player in the country.
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Agree w/ you. I didn't mean to imply that they were comparable. I was saying that the knock on Roy Williams is that he only wins w/ great talent, thus him being overrated. Nobody knocks JC for winning in 04 w/ great talent. The 03 example was to counteract our 2011 championship.
 
Next in the series from CBSSports.com:

Coming Friday: Who is perceived to be the biggest cheater in the game?

Can't wait to see that one.
 
Husky1964 said:
Boeheim had the best player when he won the big one. Very lucky that year that he did not have to face Vermont or Richmond. Aside from that year he has not been to the Elite 8 in FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!Poor coach with the talent he gets.
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Odd rationale. We had the best player when we won in 11. Should we state they were lucky not to play George Mason or San Diego in those other years? Boeheim has not had great postseason success; however, that alone does not make him an overrated coach. The guys who year after year have done nothing should be much higher. Rick Barnes, to me, is the epitome of an overrated coach. Tons of talent and has done nothing year after year.
 
HooperScooper said:
Next in the series from CBSSports.com:

Coming Friday: Who is perceived to be the biggest cheater in the game?

Can't wait to see that one.
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Ouch... You think JC makes it?
 
UConn990411 said:
You can use that logic for 2011 - UConn, around the best player in the country, got extremely hot at the right time. In fact, I'd have to say 2011 UConn was the worst championship team since the 2000s (even though they were my favorite).

But 2004? No. That team was the best/second best team in the country once it healthy and rolling late in the year. They would've run 2003 Syracuse right out of the building. (If I'm remembering correctly, didn't they do that...twice...in 2003, when they were younger and didn't have Boone or Villanueva?)

On a different note, Roy Williams being on that list is just silly. Sure, he's benefited greatly from having two of the easiest coaching jobs in the country, but two championships, seven Final Fours, and an .800 winning percentage is...well, two championships, seven Final Fours, and an .800 winning percentage.
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I think you are correct. In fact thats how I remember it and what Ive always told people. Im pretty sure that we beat Cuse by close to if not by 20 points both times that year.
 
It's just a fun list... I mean come on - who on here didn't smile a lot when they read this? Especially given it was asked of other coaches around the country? Really?!!!

The question is: Who is the most overrated coach in the country?

  1. Roy Williams (North Carolina): 23 percent
  2. Rick Barnes (Texas): 17 percent
  3. Scott Drew (Baylor): 11 percent
  4. Steve Lavin (St. John's): 9 percent
  5. Jay Wright (Villanova): 6 percent
  6. Ben Howland (UCLA): 6 percent
  7. Jim Boeheim (Syracuse): 4 percent
  8. Tommy Amaker (Harvard): 4 percent
 
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