OT: local frosh...track...transgender girl

[Blakeon18]

Transgender freshman in Conn. competes with girls track team for first time

There was a huge front page article in the Courant last Friday about Andraya Yearwood...a 15 year old frosh at Cromwell High...competing for the first time in a girls' meet...as a transgender girl. The link is to a shorter USAToday article...I can't seem to get a good link to the more detailed Courant piece.

There were no objections as far as I can tell by her teammates....or the opposing teams. Andraya performed very very well...among her races was a 11.99 time in the 100 meters. For a frosh that is one spectactular time here in Ct.

Subsequent to the article the Courant ran an editorial with full praise for all involved.

The original article mentioned that Andraya has not begun any treatment...e.g. puberty blockers....hormone shots...sex reassignment surgery...all that apparently to come at some point down the road.

Based on the longer article I assume the kid's self-identifying as a female is
sufficient t0 participate on girls' teams.

I wonder: is it bigotry to wonder if Andraya's current physical make-up [not the one Yearwood aspires to have in the future] gives the kid an unfair advantage over the competitors? I assume that if Yearwood is good enough to make the girls' basketball team....or any other girls' team at Cromwell...that also would be allowed.

BTW: relevant or not.... the Courant piece says that while Andraya has 'access' to the girls' lockerroom the kid changes clothes privately...no reason given.

Got any wisdom on this?

 

[FairView]

I think people can be whatever they want to be. If you were born with male parts and feel better identifying as a woman, God bless you. Do whatever makes you happy and society should leave you alone.

However, I don't think it is fair for someone born as a male to compete as a female in sports. Men have numerous physical advantages that make them stronger, faster and better able to compete. If that weren't the case, there wouldn't be separate men's and women's sports. In this track meet, a boy won races against girls. That doesn't make any sense. So the girl who came in second – who worked hard and trained – was denied a victory because a boy was allowed to run on a girls' track team. I'm not sure if this it due to political correctness, oversensitivity to the plight of transgendered people or what. But this is ridiculous. If Lebron James decides he identifies as a woman, can he play for the Connecticut Sun?

 

[Aluminny69]

Excelling based on his skill, and the fact that he’s naturally bigger, stronger, and faster than anyone racing against him. But hey, why trifle with details?

I remember the controversy with Renee Richards. She sued USTA for the right to play against Women, and won. She had some success, but was about 43 years old at the time.

From WIKI, "Richards has since expressed ambivalence about her legacy, and came to believe her past as a man provided her with advantages over her competitors, saying “Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I’d had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I’ve reconsidered my opinion.”

 

[j66kicker]

If Lebron James decides he identifies as a woman, can he play for the Connecticut Sun?

That still might not be enough for the Sun to make the playoffs

 

[Geno-ista]

Transgender freshman in Conn. competes with girls track team for first time

There was a huge front page article in the Courant last Friday about Andraya Yearwood...a 15 year old frosh at Cromwell High...competing for the first time in a girls' meet...as a transgender girl. The link is to a shorter USAToday article...I can't seem to get a good link to the more detailed Courant piece.

There were no objections as far as I can tell by her teammates....or the opposing teams. Andraya performed very very well...among her races was a 11.99 time in the 100 meters. For a frosh that is one spectactular time here in Ct.

Subsequent to the article the Courant ran an editorial with full praise for all involved.

The original article mentioned that Andraya has not begun any treatment...e.g. puberty blockers....hormone shots...sex reassignment surgery...all that apparently to come at some point down the road.

Based on the longer article I assume the kid's self-identifying as a female is
sufficient t0 participate on girls' teams.

I wonder: is it bigotry to wonder if Andraya's current physical make-up [not the one Yearwood aspires to have in the future] gives the kid an unfair advantage over the competitors? I assume that if Yearwood is good enough to make the girls' basketball team....or any other girls' team at Cromwell...that also would be allowed.

BTW: relevant or not.... the Courant piece says that while Andraya has 'access' to the girls' lockerroom the kid changes clothes privately...no reason given.

Got any wisdom on this?

I commend the few brave people that brought up this topic and had the courage to comment. Only 3 people commented. Girls/women's or female sports will be over in the not so distant future. The train has left the station on this issue I guess. In 10 -20 yrs, I suspect that we all are going to regret that we let this happen. And the approx. 99% of individuals and competitors that were born female, will never or rarely be able to make any competitive teams in the future. And we will all be happy and better people as a result- I guess. As the impact of this difficult issue becomes more apparent, I suspect that many individuals on this board, who are certainly much more socially mainstream than I am, may even have a few 2nd thoughts that they may not care to admit they have. I for one enjoy both men's basketball for what it is. But I love women's basketball even more. And if that makes me some kind of a "phobe" - so be it. I dont think this is fair at all.

 

[Blakeon18]

Somewhat related here: Certainly in Massachusetts...and maybe many other states[?]...there is the policy in high schools
that if the school does not provide for both a girls' and boys' team in a sport then a girl must be eligible to play on the boys' team.
No girls' track...she is eligible to be on the boys' team....and so forth. This can lead to delightfully warm and fuzzy stories
about how a girl placekicker kicks a winning field goal on the football team...and so forth. In general this leads to articles
about how wonderful and progressive the community is.

Uhhh...it also means that boys are eligible to play on girls' teams if that high school doesn't offer them to boys.
Like field hockey....or in fact any sport where a girls' team is fielded but no boys' team....maybe due to lack of funds....or lack of interest by the guys.
If a guy does play....say in field hockey or tennis....'warm and fuzzy' doesn't happen. Instead there tends to be outrage at the boy and how unfair this is...taking a spot on the roster...
and playing time from a girl. The same community lauded in one case for being progressive and committed to equality tends to morph into a
name-calling crowd with zero interest in 'equality'...unless it serves their purpose.

Specific example from a while back: local high school in Ma. fielded a girls' tennis team...no guy-team. The MIAA made the school
open the team to boys. Apparently all the girls were fine with the boy teammate.

State tourney arrives: the MIAA tells the team that either they have to kick the boy off the team...or play in the boys' division.
This is the same group that forced the school to make the boy eligible. Can they be more ridiculous...in their pursuit of
fairness and equality? Not without tremendous effort....imo. The boy clearly helped the team qualify for the state tournament....then is told...beat it....not fair for you to play against girls.

I do think....and hope....that Geno-ista's forecast is overly bleak. But I also think the general topic is worth thinking about and that we not
buy into 'equality'....'progress'...no 'discrimination'...without considering their impact on girls'/women's participation in sports.

As a huge golf fan...I am absolutely delighted that the LPGA discriminates against male players....simply doesn't allow any guy to play in LPGA events.
The fact that the PGA does allow female players....is fine with me... if they choose that policy. I guess that makes them 'progressive' while the LPGA
is a hotbed of sexism and discrimination????

We all know of Sally Jenkins...a prominent sportswriter...and was a very good friend of LadyVol Herself [Pat]...daughter
of legendary golf writer Dan Jenkins. When Michelle Wie was given a sponsor's exemption into a PGA event years ago
she played decently....missed the cut by 2 or 3 shots....but did not look out of place at all....in that one event.
Sally Jenkins wrote an opinion piece about the performance and waxed poetic about what the impact would be down the road.
Despite her position in the sportswriting world....one where she is acclaimed...it was one of THE dumbest pieces I have ever read.
Sally declared that Michelle had proved that there should be NO gender distinction in golf. The best players....male and female....play on the highest tour
Next level down...lots of good players certainly would remain...no gender issue...next best players male and female play...and so forth.

No U.S. Women's Open....no strictly female tourney ever...simply not needed due to Michelle's performance....according to Sally.
Of course Sally's 'wisdom' never advanced past the Washington Post's page....thank heavens. It would have destroyed women's golf on the tournament level.
Sally wanted to take the 'L' out of the LPGA...in the name of 'equality' and 'progress'. Praise the golf gods that her ridiculous idea
was/is considered far, far out of bounds.

 

[JimGunther]

There was a time when the Olympics tested for the X or Y chromosome - Wouldn't that take the controversy (and political correctness) out of the equation?
(Sorry if this is a double post - thought I had already made this less than nuanced suggestion)

 

[stamfordhusky]

I think people can be whatever they want to be. If you were born with male parts and feel better identifying as a woman, God bless you. Do whatever makes you happy and society should leave you alone.

However, I don't think it is fair for someone born as a male to compete as a female in sports. Men have numerous physical advantages that make them stronger, faster and better able to compete. If that weren't the case, there wouldn't be separate men's and women's sports. In this track meet, a boy won races against girls. That doesn't make any sense. So the girl who came in second – who worked hard and trained – was denied a victory because a boy was allowed to run on a girls' track team. I'm not sure if this it due to political correctness, oversensitivity to the plight of transgendered people or what. But this is ridiculous. If Lebron James decides he identifies as a woman, can he play for the Connecticut Sun?

Agree 100%.

 

[Sargassoc]

Transgender freshman in Conn. competes with girls track team for first time

There was a huge front page article in the Courant last Friday about Andraya Yearwood...a 15 year old frosh at Cromwell High...competing for the first time in a girls' meet...as a transgender girl. The link is to a shorter USAToday article...I can't seem to get a good link to the more detailed Courant piece.

There were no objections as far as I can tell by her teammates....or the opposing teams. Andraya performed very very well...among her races was a 11.99 time in the 100 meters. For a frosh that is one spectactular time here in Ct.

Subsequent to the article the Courant ran an editorial with full praise for all involved.

The original article mentioned that Andraya has not begun any treatment...e.g. puberty blockers....hormone shots...sex reassignment surgery...all that apparently to come at some point down the road.

Based on the longer article I assume the kid's self-identifying as a female is
sufficient t0 participate on girls' teams.

I wonder: is it bigotry to wonder if Andraya's current physical make-up [not the one Yearwood aspires to have in the future] gives the kid an unfair advantage over the competitors? I assume that if Yearwood is good enough to make the girls' basketball team....or any other girls' team at Cromwell...that also would be allowed.

BTW: relevant or not.... the Courant piece says that while Andraya has 'access' to the girls' lockerroom the kid changes clothes privately...no reason given.

Got any wisdom on this?

I work in a CT public high school and have worked on this issue there. We have had a positive transgender policy for some time now. The state finally caught up to us a few years back.

That said, we have also had trans students play on sports teams. No one called the local papers, so it wasn't a news item (which is the way I think it should be). You may not know that most endocrinologists will not prescribe hormones until at least age 16 for kids. For many years, there was only one doctor who would, at 16, and he is in Springfield, MA. So many trans kids couldn't transition (should they even want to) until 16 or later (assuming parents are not on board).

Connecticut is more pro-active than most states-- which is great for the kids who deal with gender issues. Dianna Wentzell, the Commissioner of Education, is very supportive, I can tell you that.

Here's one way to think about the issue. About six years ago, I was at a meeting with our superintendent, principal, director of Pupil Services, and PE department chair-- discussing trans issues in our district before we created a policy. The principal asked, "What will I tell a parent who calls to tell me there's a boy in the girls' locker room?" The superintendent simply said, "Tell the parent he's wrong. There's a girl in the girls' locker room." I was in awe.

The reality is-- no one ever knows what's in someone's pants (sorry to be coarse)-- and if, as a coach or a teacher, you do-- we got way bigger fish to fry.

 

[bags27]

Let 'em compete. It's not like some people who compete in their natural-born gender don't often bring enormous advantages. Rich kids tend to do better in "country club" sports like tennis, golf, polo, etc. Tall people have advantages in basketball, excessive nearsightedness is sometimes an advantage in hitting a baseball etc.

Renee Richards

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I guarantee you that no transgender teen is going to go through the harassment, ridicule, etc. just to compete as the opposite gender unless they would like to fully transition. I'm not transgender, but I know a number of people who are and they face many, many challenges in everyday life. I think sports bodies need to have rules, etc. for how transgender man and women compete, but they certainly should be able to compete.

 

[j66kicker]

I guarantee you that no transgender teen is going to go through the harassment, ridicule, etc. just to compete as the opposite gender unless they would like to fully transition. I'm not transgender, but I know a number of people who are and they face many, many challenges in everyday life. I think sports bodies need to have rules, etc. for how transgender man and women compete, but they certainly should be able to compete.

How is it fair for a person with male skeletal & musculature characteristics to "compete" with girls or women?

 

[nwhoopfan]

How is it fair for a person with male skeletal & musculature characteristics to "compete" with girls or women?

This. I don't even understand why there's a debate about this issue. Seems like it should be a no brainer.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

How is it fair for a person with male skeletal & musculature characteristics to "compete" with girls or women?

IMO, a transgender female is a female and a transgender male is a male. I do think there should be rules as far as having started hormone therapy, etc. before they can start competing as that gender.

 

[Sargassoc]

Whether or not someone is medically transitioning is none of our business. (. . . unless you'd like YOUR private medical records released on order to participate in a public high school activity. We don't require that of anyone else.)

There are plenty of chromosomal variations that folks may have that are not necessarily apparent to others. One in every 2,ooo births is considered sex variant or intersex. SOURCE

I would worry less about who was playing on what team and focus on creating a school that makes all kids feel welcome. That's my .02' worth.

 

[Alydar]

How is it fair for a person with male skeletal & musculature characteristics to "compete" with girls or women?

No less fair than 1 100 lb 5'5" male has trying to compete with a 6'5" 220 lb male. If one truly supports gender equality then everyone should compete without regard to gender. There are a lot of high school males who have little to no chance of making a team due to their " skeletal & musculature characteristics". The fact that there are no laws to protect them is just political.

And while I'm at it ... I've read the argument that some genetic females are uncomfortable sharing a public restroom with a transgendered female. Well, there was a time when some Caucasian females were uncomfortable sharing a public restroom with minority women.

In a school of 1000 males and 1000 females lets say that 100 males try out for the 12 spots on the basketball team and only 10 females try out for basketball. 88 males will be denied an opportunity to play and no females when in fact many of them are simply better basketball players than most of the females. Many of those males were denied the opportunity to compete because they were smaller, less strong and unable to jump as high. And yet no provision is made for them to participate while there is an entire team for females based on that exact rational, namely that they are too small to compete with the males? The bottom line is that there are endless ways to divide people, gender being but one.

Why not rate everyone on the same metrics? Height, weight, speed, vertical, etc. and then group them accordingly. There would be almost exclusively males at the top and almost exclusively females at the bottom. The top players become the school's team. Then organize intra-murals where individuals compete against equals? There would be some mixed-gender teams but no one would be denied the opportunity to play because of their gender.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Why not rate everyone on the same metrics? Height, weight, speed, vertical, etc. and then group them accordingly. There would be almost exclusively males at the top and almost exclusively females at the bottom. The top players become the school's team. Then organize intra-murals where individuals compete against equals? There would be some mixed-gender teams but no one would be denied the opportunity to play because of their gender.

This just doesn't seem like it would fly w/ Title IX. I think you would be upsetting a whole lot of fans of women's sports by essentially getting rid of women's sports.

 

[Alydar]

This just doesn't seem like it would fly w/ Title IX. I think you would be upsetting a whole lot of fans of women's sports by essentially getting rid of women's sports.

I knew that. And I enjoy women's sports. I was just pointing out that if one extends the whole basis for having separate women's sports to it's logical conclusion then one should also be insuring that smaller and weaker males also have equal opportunity. It's just another version of discrimination based on genetics.

 

[willtalk]

Husky Nan--- You stated we should have gender less restrooms as Europe does. Theoretically that is a good idea. There are a lot of things in Europe that are better than they are here. The opposite also applies. The thing is that we also need to consider a peoples cultural history. There are many things do to more people in less space that creates less a culture that is more comfortable with less privacy. Take Japan for example where it is acceptable for strange men and women to bath in the nude together. The culture we grow up in influences our comfort zones. It takes people time to adapt to cultural change. Most people are probably are not capable of adapting over night nor should they be forced too. Culture is like an interwoven tapestry that when you pull out a thread on one end we might also end up unraveling something else we had no intention of undoing. It's a concept environmentalist have tried to explain. They want people to recognize that our eco system operates in synchronicity and that removing one species has an affect of the others. Unfortunately sociologists do not seem to recognize the same variable active in culture. This is one reason that the promotion of idealistic social values often results in the opposite of what it was intended.

I have through time adapted my expectations of other people. I don't expect them to live by my standards because most are not capable of doing so. Sometimes it's simply because they just do not possess the mental or emotional resources to do so. Other times it's because social conditioning has set too low of a standard of expectations. Social conditioning does not go away over night. Naive people in Northern Europe are beginning to discover that expecting people who are conditioned under a different culture can not be expected to adjust and fit in over night. It's much like introducing an non native species into a new environment. It often creates disastrous unforeseen ecological consequences. We also have an obligation to consider those who are ensconced in the present and not just to our ideal perspectives of the future.

To bring an ideal to fruition requires both a realistic perspective and path.

 

[Roger G]

I work in a CT public high school and have worked on this issue there. We have had a positive transgender policy for some time now. The state finally caught up to us a few years back.

That said, we have also had trans students play on sports teams. No one called the local papers, so it wasn't a news item (which is the way I think it should be). You may not know that most endocrinologists will not prescribe hormones until at least age 16 for kids. For many years, there was only one doctor who would, at 16, and he is in Springfield, MA. So many trans kids couldn't transition (should they even want to) until 16 or later (assuming parents are not on board).

Connecticut is more pro-active than most states-- which is great for the kids who deal with gender issues. Dianna Wentzell, the Commissioner of Education, is very supportive, I can tell you that.

Here's one way to think about the issue. About six years ago, I was at a meeting with our superintendent, principal, director of Pupil Services, and PE department chair-- discussing trans issues in our district before we created a policy. The principal asked, "What will I tell a parent who calls to tell me there's a boy in the girls' locker room?" The superintendent simply said, "Tell the parent he's wrong. There's a girl in the girls' locker room." I was in awe.

The reality is-- no one ever knows what's in someone's pants (sorry to be coarse)-- and if, as a coach or a teacher, you do-- we got way bigger fish to fry.

Ummm...first you say that the parent worried about a boy in the locker room shouldn't be worried, then you say that no one knows what's in someone's pants. Did you not know that you find out what is in someone's pants in the locker room? And to dismiss a parent's real concern in such a flippant manner was incredibly arrogant of that superintendent.

 

[Roger G]

IMO, a transgender female is a female and a transgender male is a male. I do think there should be rules as far as having started hormone therapy, etc. before they can start competing as that gender.

It's nice to have opinions. It doesn't change facts. As regards their chromosomes, they don't change after the "therapy." What one is born as doesn't change even if some of the superficial characteristics do.

 

[Aluminny69]

Then there's this:

Teens are becoming transgender because it’s trendy, expert says

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Then there's this:

Teens are becoming transgender because it’s trendy, expert says

So, because one "expert" thinks something is so, that makes it true?

 

[HuskyNan]

So, because one "expert" thinks something is so, that makes it true?

Not an expert, an opinion from the far right.

Time to lock the thread.