OT - Kevin Love deal reached in principle

[caw]

I think Irving can be at least an average PG defender. He just has never tried. Waiters is a typical Cuse defender and he needs a ton of work, he also seems to have a pretty big ego for such a mediocre player, but if there is one guy who can keep others in line it is Lebron. If not Waiters could be gone anyway.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Chips on shoulder are nice, but I'm not convinced Wiggins has the skills to dominate in the NBA. Huge hops and athleticism don't get you even most of the way to "franchise player." Time will tell, but I think many people got caught up in the "parker, wiggins, randle" great 1 and done hype machine.
Will be very interesting to see.

I'm with you on Wiggins, he certainly didn't dominate to expectations this past year and if Embid was healthy and Wiggins fell to 3rd or 4th this might feel different. However it is all about perceived or market value. And right now as the #1 pick the market value is very high for Wiggins. Likewise I agree that Bennett is prob 55% bust versus 45% best case of serviceable, yet his stock is higher after a good summer league. So why do the trade now? Its putting all of your chips in the center of the pile when you don't have to. LeBron is more or less making Cleveland go for a win immediately mentality at the possible expense of long-term.

I guess my point is that Minny won the negotiations by getting Cleveland to throw in the #1 pick. That can be feces as you suggest, but it also means that come crunch time in 2016 NBA playoffs you've got no bench like Miami this past year.

 

[Strummer]

LeBron is more or less making Cleveland go for a win immediately mentality at the possible expense of long-term.

What? What? Come on.

You'd be hardpressed to find very many people in Cleveland - management, players, or fans - who don't want to go for it RIGHT NOW. To say that LeBron is "making" anybody do anything is crazy talk.

 

[Dogdeacon]

What? What? Come on.

You'd be hardpressed to find very many people in Cleveland - management, players, or fans - who don't want to go for it RIGHT NOW. To say that LeBron is "making" anybody do anything is crazy talk.

Who do you think has more say in what Cleveland does, LeBron, Gibert or whomever the GM is? I say 51-48-1
Did the fans, players and mngmnt also mandate James Jones? I demand a retraction

 

[ihatepants]

The trade itself is fine value-wise, but could they have gotten Love for less? Minny had no leverage. If Kevin Love says I'm only signing with the Cavs now or next year, Cavs just wait a year and get him for free in FA, and they get to keep all those assets. And if Love didn't work out, they'd have gotten someone else. Wiggins on a rookie scale is going to be one of the best assets in the whole NBA in a few years.

The Cavs can't afford Kevin Love next year as a free agent because they will have two max contracts (Kyrie and Lebron) and won't have Love's bird rights without the trade. They also would still have Bennett and Wiggins under contract for about $15 mil or so combined.

 

[James]

Lebron was successful in miami because the system was molded for him ( and wade to an extent). Love is a great offensive player, but it remains to be seen if he can provide anytthing close to bosh level pnr defense. Blatt has a lot on his hands, both irving & love need to play entirely different when paired with bron. More spot up shooting. Also people please stop bringing up varajao like this is 2007. hes injury prone and older, nearly washed.

This is a serious haul for minny though. they need to stop signing pg's though

 

[ihatepants]

It's Wiggins, what will wind up being a very late first rounder, and a horrible garbage basketball player.

Can we please stop pretending that Bennett is a valuable asset just because the Cavs up and took him first? He was historically awful last year, and fits that tweener forward mold of a lot of players who have busted recently. I can't think of too many guys who started out THAT bad and wound up turning into anything notable.

Like just Wiggins is worth it for the Wolves, but it's not like Cleveland gave up a whole ton given that they are very much in win now mode.

Also the Bulls can swap picks with that Cleveland pick, so they are going to get a really really late pick in this next draft.

 

[superjohn]

Lebron was successful in miami because the system was molded for him ( and wade to an extent). Love is a great offensive player, but it remains to be seen if he can provide anytthing close to bosh level pnr defense. Blatt has a lot on his hands, both irving & love need to play entirely different when paired with bron. More spot up shooting. Also people please stop bringing up varajao like this is 2007. hes injury prone and older, nearly washed.

This is a serious haul for minny though. they need to stop signing pg's though

Ummm, Varejao is probably better now than he was back then and Blatt has more to work with than any coach in the league.

 

[Deepster]

That's too much for Love in my opinion.

Really? This guy was tossing up 30 and 20 every other week on the T-Wolves! I don't think I can name anyone other than Rubio on the last 3 Wolves rosters. He's hungry to win. Lebron is chiseled and determined. The burden is off Irving to be the alpha dog and I think he'll really shine. I don't see how this is a bad move.

 

[ihatepants]

Irving, Love, and Waiters are all pretty garbage on defense.

Love's defense is way overblown. He is legit bad at help defense but his synergy numbers were one of the best for post defense, and he does not foul (which is pretty huge to avoid freebies). The Cavs probably won't be great but they won't be awful either.

 

[UConn990411]

I'm not saying these situations are entirely comparable, but ...

Prior to KG arriving in Boston, Paul Pierce never had a good defensive reputation, and Ray Allen had a pretty bad one. Then, the Celtics traded for KG, put together a great defensive scheme and brought the right guys in around them, and they became an elite defensive team for the next five years.

Obviously the Cavs have a ways to go to reach that defensive level, but having the best defensive player in the game (LeBron) is a good start. Team D far outweighs great individual defensive play in the NBA, so it's not out of the question that the Cavs could be good on that end.

 

[champs99and04]

I'm not saying these situations are entirely comparable, but ...

Prior to KG arriving in Boston, Paul Pierce never had a good defensive reputation, and Ray Allen had a pretty bad one. Then, the Celtics traded for KG, put together a great defensive scheme and brought the right guys in around them, and they became an elite defensive team for the next five years.

Obviously the Cavs have a ways to go to reach that defensive level, but having the best defensive player in the game (LeBron) is a good start. Team D far outweighs great individual defensive play in the NBA, so it's not out of the question that the Cavs could be good on that end.

Based on last season, LeBron's not close to being the best defensive player in the game. And, generally speaking, players like LeBron do not improve on that end as they age, so I suspect we've seen the last of him as a defensive savior type. Even if we were to consider LeBron the best defensive player in the league or close to it, Cleveland is still short a rim protector. What Boston had in '08 with Garnett, Perkins, and probably the best defensive coach in the game is going to be tough for Cleveland to replicate.

 

[UConn990411]

Based on last season, LeBron's not close to being the best defensive player in the game. And, generally speaking, players like LeBron do not improve on that end as they age, so I suspect we've seen the last of him as a defensive savior type. Even if we were to consider LeBron the best defensive player in the league or close to it, Cleveland is still short a rim protector. What Boston had in '08 with Garnett, Perkins, and probably the best defensive coach in the game is going to be tough for Cleveland to replicate.

Hence why I said the situations are not entirely comparable.

My point was that good team defense can make up for having poor individual defenders. Cleveland has a lot of work to do on that end, but it's not unattainable.

 

[tzznandrew]

David Blatt is a hell of a coach who's pretty widely respected. Even better, he's not above beefing with K. I don't think coaching is going to be an issue there.

Love is a very good player. I don't think he's a top 5 player but he's not too far off from that. I do wonder about those guys who dominate on horrendous teams and never get them anywhere, though, and I'm sure I'm in the minority but I don't see how a guy who hasn't played a meaningful NBA game in his career backs out of the USA gig this summer, business considerations or not.

I'll say this about Love, re: dominating on bad teams. His team this year was actually not that bad; it's just that the West is brutal. They probably projected into a Top 4 seed in the East, when you factor in their scoring differential, and strenght of schedule.

I largely agree with your other points.

 

[CallMeBruce]

If they sign Okafor and he manages to stay healthy, perhaps that's their rim protector.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It's Wiggins, what will wind up being a very late first rounder, and a horrible garbage basketball player.

Can we please stop pretending that Bennett is a valuable asset just because the Cavs up and took him first? He was historically awful last year, and fits that tweener forward mold of a lot of players who have busted recently. I can't think of too many guys who started out THAT bad and wound up turning into anything notable.

Like just Wiggins is worth it for the Wolves, but it's not like Cleveland gave up a whole ton given that they are very much in win now mode.

Also the Bulls can swap picks with that Cleveland pick, so they are going to get a really really late pick in this next draft.

Wiggins, Bennett and a late first rounder is about what Love is worth right now given that he is a free agent in a year. There are no other bidders for Love, and the only way Minnesota was going to get a better offer was if Blake Griffin or another elite PF went down for the season on a team that thought it could win the championship.

Bennett sucks and Wiggins may be very good one day. The first round draft pick will be fore a quality backup if they draft well. To be honest, Minnesota did pretty well on this trade given Love's value.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Really? This guy was tossing up 30 and 20 every other week on the T-Wolves! I don't think I can name anyone other than Rubio on the last 3 Wolves rosters. He's hungry to win. Lebron is chiseled and determined. The burden is off Irving to be the alpha dog and I think he'll really shine. I don't see how this is a bad move.

So is your opinion that Cleveland got a bargain? Or was it a completely even-trade?

My view is influenced by the comps - like any transaction. The comps say you don't get much back when a superstar demands a trade and therefore the Cavs paid over market. Here are superstars and what their teams got in return in recent past, most were in last year or similar contract situation (trade demand) to Love:
2012 Dwight Howard - Orlando got Al Harrington, Aaron Affalo, Nikola Vucevic (?), Josh McRoberts and a bunch of scrubs + 3 x 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder
2012 Harden - (Daquean Cook, Cole Aldrich & Lazar Hayward? included with him) OKC got 1yr of Kevin Martin & Lamb + 2 x 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick
2011 Carmelo & Chauncey Billups - Denver got Ray Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Timofy Mosgov, 1 x 1st rounder, 2 x 2nd round
2011 Chris Paul - Hornets got Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman, Al-Farouq Aminu and 1st rounder

So in the four very recent trades; Howard, Harden, Carmelo and Chris Paul had the receiving team give up far less than Cleveland IF we assume Wiggins as #1 pick is an all-star or better. If Wiggins becomes a franchise type player and Bennett a starter, Minnesota becomes a huge outlier that got equal or better value for a top-10-ish player. Trade may be equal swap of players today and even in long-term, but Cavs paid above market because LeBron (I don't blame him) forced their hand.

 

[James]

Reports are Thaddeus Young is being sent to minny as well . Wow , what a haul and stroke of luck by Saunders and co . This is without a doubt the greatest return value for a superstar in a trade ever. Thad young is a very nice young vet , one of the first 1&dones.