OT: Judges Reinstated Brady's Suspension

[easttexastrash]

Wrong. Wells himself told Brady they didn't need his phone BEFORE Brady changed phones. That was actually in the Wells Report. It only became an issue with Goodell at the appeal hearing.
I also take issue with your notion that a person maintaining their innocence is because they consider themselves "above it all".

Best of luck to Mr. Wonderful during his next appeal. By the time its all said and done his four game suspension will be the last four games of the season of his last year in the league.

 

[malevocalist#]

Guess what? My company also gets to be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to my performance and disciplinary action. Brady is part of the NFL and has to play by their rules, just like I have to play by the rules of my employer. Boo hoo...he has the same issue that all of us have when it comes to our jobs.

Why are you talking to me about it? Really?

 

[Buzzyboy]

Understand what this ruling was about. These judges ruled on the acceptability of the process that was used and the power that the commish yields in that process. Basically they said the league and player's union negotiated and agreed to these powers given to the commish and that that process in their view(2 to 1) allowed for a fair hearing to Brady.
They in now way were ruling on the case itself or the guilt or innocence of anyone or even if the penalty was fair. They only were ruling that the commish was given the power he yielded by mutual and legal agreement of the two main parties (league and Players assoc.)

If the NFL hadn't continued with the process and instead had accepted the previous ruling, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I do understand that this ruling was simply based on the power that the Commissioners office has as a result of the collective bargaining agreement but why would the Commissioners office have initiated this in the first place and then, after the dust from the first ruling had settled, decided to go for Round 2? That's the premise of my remarks yesterday and nothing has changed that. The Commissioner and the NFL owners are complete A**holes for defaming one of the premier players in the history of the league just so as to hurt Bellichek or Kraft or the Patriots organization. I know the NFL is probably too big to fail because of fans who will never turn away but is that any reason for them to abuse their power like this????? They make me want to vomit with their abuses and this just seems to epitomize what's wrong with Washington. The same abuses of power and money and the good of the game is irrelevant like the good of the country seems to be with today's politicians. How totally disgusting and shameful.

 

[Kibitzer]

Understand what this ruling was about. They only were ruling that the commish was given the power he yielded by mutual and legal agreement of the two main parties (league and Players assoc.)

Brady is a great QB. Goodell is a jerk. Kraft is arrogantly krafty. The issue of air in footballs is, well, a lot of hot air. The stupidity of the NFLPA (hey, they gave Goodell all that power when they signed the CFA) deprives Brady et al. any realistic recourse.

Just like the end of Looney Tunes, "That's All, Folks!"

 

[malevocalist#]

They gave Goodell control of punishment not the right to arbitrarily hand down punishments when he can't prove the rule violation happened.

 

[malevocalist#]

 

[bags27]

Brady didn't immediately turn to the Players' Union for advice and help, instead preferring to trust his agent. Had he consulted with the union rep and legal staff immediately, he would have shut down all communication with others and never have been convicted of anything.

Lesson no one ever learns: in white collar "crime", what gets you convicted ain't the crime, it's the cover up (just ask Martha Stewart).

 

[toadfoot]

Brady didn't immediately turn to the Players' Union for advice and help, instead preferring to trust his agent. Had he consulted with the union rep and legal staff immediately, he would have shut down all communication with others and never have been convicted of anything.

Lesson no one ever learns: in white collar "crime", what gets you convicted ain't the crime, it's the cover up (just ask Martha Stewart).

What coverup? Nothing happened except thermodynamics.

 

[bags27]

What coverup? Nothing happened except thermodynamics.

It was the several calls to the two ball guys that gave Goddell all the excuse he needed, and then Brady's (perfectly legal) destruction of his phone. I personally think Brady did conspire to lighten the balls (just like most NFL QBs fool around with ball pressure, according to the survey of NFL players), and probably should have received a $20k penalty for equipment violations. Of course, what happened next was completely over-the-top by that idiot Goddell and his lackeys. But Brady gave him his "smoking gun." Had he not called those 2 guys incessantly (having never called them before), Goddell would have been left spinning his wheels and looking for something else to blame the Patriots for.

 

[toadfoot]

Your definition of "smoking gun" is quite bizarre to say the least. First of all, there was absolutely nothing, zero, nada in any of Brady's communication to even suggest there was any deliberate deflation of footballs or a scheme of any kind. I dare you to prove me wrong.
Second, Brady explained that there were 2 reasons for his communication, to see how people caught up in a witch hunt were handling it and to discuss the preparation of footballs for the upcoming Super Bowl since the individual (Jastremski?) responsible was not a Patriots' employee for any of their previous Super Bowl appearances.
This last point is particularly troubling because despite Brady so testifying at his appeal hearing, Goodell blatantly lied about Brady's testimony when he claimed that Brady never discussed Super Bowl ball preparation with either Jastremski of McNally. It was only after the transcript was released, despite the NFL wanting it kept private, that the public learned of Goodell's lies.

I refuse to be dragged into another long winded thread about something that never occurred, but I will say my interest in the NFL has diminished considerably. When the commissioner of a professional sports league can punish a franchise for something that "more probably than not" didn't even occur and then mete out a penalty far in excess of what the CBA mandates ($25,000 fine) all in the name of integrity it's time to look for another sport. Fortunately, my Cubbies appear to be primed to make a deep run in this year's playoff, possibly the World Series, so I could be watching them into early November;-)

 

[bags27]

Whoa, take a step back from the cliff. "smoking gun" is in quotation marks. I agree with you that there was nothing inherently wrong about his calls. But as I said, it's appearances of crime which often gets you convicted. The union lawyer would have told Brady not to call anyone connected to professional football from the moment he was notified of the investigation. But Brady lives in a protected bubble and couldn't imagine anyone was after him; his agent should have known better, but Brady needed to lawyer up immediately. It's the world we live in (alas).

 

[Kibitzer]

Tom Brady is assuredly among the greatest of NFL players and could be as virtuous as any to ever put on pads.

Roger Goodell has provided ample evidence that he is a real horse's ass -- except to a majority of his employers (all owners not named Kraft).

Evidence of a transgression by Brady is flimsy, circumstantial, unconvincing, and just plain silly.

Any suggestion that this commissioner is judicious when taking punitive actions is laughable.

Now read what those two judges stated. The NFLPA ceded punitive power to Goodell and he exercised it. Perhaps not wisely, but legally.

Mr. Brady, take a seat in September. Case Closed.

 

[toadfoot]

Whoa, take a step back from the cliff. "smoking gun" is in quotation marks. I agree with you that there was nothing inherently wrong about his calls. But as I said, it's appearances of crime which often gets you convicted. The union lawyer would have told Brady not to call anyone connected to professional football from the moment he was notified of the investigation. But Brady lives in a protected bubble and couldn't imagine anyone was after him; his agent should have known better, but Brady needed to lawyer up immediately. It's the world we live in (alas).

As the parent of a lawyer who does criminal work, particularly appellate work, I can agree. I would add that when you "lawyer up" make sure the lawyer is competent. Most average Americans would be appalled if they knew how many citizens are incarcerated for crimes they didn't commit and they'd be especially appalled at the circumstances of why some people are convicted. On more than one occasion he's told me that after reading a case file he's had to go for a work to calm down, either because of prosecutorial misconduct, police misconduct, clear judicial error or incompetent representation.

Google Jon Burge. My son participated in the review of some of the cases raised during this sorry episode.

 

[StoweD210]

They gave Goodell control of punishment not the right to arbitrarily hand down punishments when he can't prove the rule violation happened.

Exactly. No one on the NFLPA side considered Goodell would use his authority to frame someone. The number of people who are okay with this is kind of scary.

 

[CL82]

Guess what? My company also gets to be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to my performance and disciplinary action. Brady is part of the NFL and has to play by their rules, just like I have to play by the rules of my employer. Boo hoo...he has the same issue that all of us have when it comes to our jobs.

If your company accused you of embezzlement, made false public releases about how they had "proven" that reciepts disappeared and linked them to you, engaged an attorney who put together a very flawed and easily disproved report backing the false accusation, widely publicized that report and numerous false statements, doubling down on the original accusations, told you that you would receive a fair review of the original accusation, told you that you did not need to provide them with any supporting documentation, then widely publicized your failure to produce such document as "proof" of guilt of the original charge...etc., I suspect that you might feel differently about the issue.

Just a hunch.

 

[malevocalist#]

If your company accused you of embezzlement, made false public releases about how they had "proven" that reciepts disappeared and linked them to you, engaged an attorney who put together a very flawed and easily disproved report backing the false accusation, widely publicized that report and numerous false statements, doubling down on the original accusations, told you that you would receive a fair review of the original accusation, told you that you did not need to provide them with any supporting documentation, then widely publicized your failure to produce such document as "proof" of guilt of the original charge...etc., I suspect that you might feel differently about the issue.

Just a hunch.

.

Well Said CL82...Well Said

 

[toadfoot]

Compelling evidence that among sports fans, football fans are the stupidest. A friend pointed me to this, which was posted on ProFootballTalk.

spillertime21 says:Apr 26, 2016 12:38 PM

It’s strange that balls don’t under inflate on their own in the cold weather in Seattle, Denver, Green Bay, Chicago, Cleveland, Kansas City, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, New York, Philly, Washington, or Baltimore. I guess the gas law only works in foxboro.
He lied, and destroyed evidence. He should be suspended for a year.


Apparently this individual thinks it's "more probable than not" that the above cities have figured out how to suspend the laws of thermodynamics. Too funny!

 

[malevocalist#]

The one that dissented was US Circuit Judge Robert Katzmann calling it "ironic that a process designed to ensure fairness to all players has been used unfairly against one player " Tom Brady!

 

[StoweD210]

Compelling evidence that among sports fans, football fans are the stupidest. A friend pointed me to this, which was posted on ProFootballTalk.

spillertime21 says:Apr 26, 2016 12:38 PM

It’s strange that balls don’t under inflate on their own in the cold weather in Seattle, Denver, Green Bay, Chicago, Cleveland, Kansas City, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, New York, Philly, Washington, or Baltimore. I guess the gas law only works in foxboro.
He lied, and destroyed evidence. He should be suspended for a year.


Apparently this individual thinks it's "more probable than not" that the above cities have figured out how to suspend the laws of thermodynamics. Too funny!

There's a line of thought out there that people make comments like that on sites like PFT just to get a rise out of other commenters. That's true, to a degree, but I also think there is a group out there that is dumb enough or ignorant enough to really believe statements like that.

 

[toadfoot]

There's a line of thought out there that people make comments like that on sites like PFT just to get a rise out of other commenters. That's true, to a degree, but I also think there is a group out there that is dumb enough or ignorant enough to really believe statements like that.

The thing that really infuriates me about this entire sorry saga is that if the NFL had simply done what they said they were going to do and test during the season (and perhaps they did and know that releasing the results would show them for the corrupt morons they are), they would now likely have a database of information relating to how much the PSI differs from locker room to field for an entire range of game time temperatures.
God forbid the truth might emerge. Instead we have a corrupt commissioner who doubled down when he realized he had it wrong from the very beginning.

 

[StoweD210]

The thing that really infuriates me about this entire sorry saga is that if the NFL had simply done what they said they were going to do and test during the season (and perhaps they did and know that releasing the results would show them for the corrupt morons they are), they would now likely have a database of information relating to how much the PSI differs from locker room to field for an entire range of game time temperatures.
God forbid the truth might emerge. Instead we have a corrupt commissioner who doubled down when he realized he had it wrong from the very beginning.

This is some of what the NFL said they were going to do back in July:

Before the game, the referee will designate two members of the officiating crew to inspect the balls pregame. The officials will number the balls 1-12, and record all PSI data.

The NFL will designate random games in which to test the football PSI at halftime and after the game. The kicking ball coordinator will collect the footballs from both teams at halftime, will be escorted to the locker room by the league’s security personnel, will measure and record the PSI of all 24 footballs, and then remove the footballs from play. The 24 backup footballs will then be used in the second half.

At the end of each randomly selected game, the kicking ball coordinator will again inspect all game balls from each team and record the results. All recorded information will be reported back to the league office.​

Here's how Goodell characterized it in February:

“We do spot checks to prevent and make sure the clubs understand that we’re watching these issues. It wasn’t a research study. They simply were spot checks.”​

The NFL gameday procedures say that the officials must provide the PSI information to the league by noon on the day following a game. So, they have all this information. It's not like it's anything sensitive, like personal or financial data or something that could be tied to concussions or the safety of the game. Why keep it a secret? It's reasonable to wonder if this information would have stayed under wraps if it helped the league's claim that tampering had occurred.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

If only we cared about things that matter to a nation headed down the toilet as much as we care about Deflategate.

 

[malevocalist#]

If only we cared about things that matter to a nation headed down the toilet as much as we care about Deflategate.

We care about Justice and the abuse of it. We hate evil. Even at the top where men who are suppose to implement that Justice. But fail to do so intentionally.

 

[malevocalist#]

"As Deflategate wore on, the lawyers representing Tom Brady forgot to do something essential. They forgot to argue their client’s innocence. Instead Jeffrey Kessler and the NFL Players Association got so lost in pushing their interpretation of the collective bargaining agreement and trying to trim the powers of Commissioner Roger Goodell that they failed to drive home the essential point: How can a player be suspended for “conduct detrimental” when there was no conduct to begin with?"

 

[malevocalist#]