OT: Former Stanford Great Kate Starbird and Geno Auriemma

[Sakibomb25]

A small mention of Geno Auriemma in a profile of former Stanford great Kate Starbird. A good read overall:

Kate Starbird, former basketball star, chooses a different route — as usual

 

[Kait14]

Crazy coincidence that you posted this Saki.. I watched the documentary "Training Rules" tonight, and was re-reading ESPN's article about homophobic negative recruiting and trying to find more info about it. Not exactly related, but in the same range lol. Thanks for posting!

 

[DaddyChoc]

I liked her game!

Geno was trying to get the most out of her basketball-wise... Starbird had other things on her mind

 

[Icebear]

Crazy coincidence that you posted this Saki.. I watched the documentary "Training Rules" tonight, and was re-reading ESPN's article about homophobic negative recruiting and trying to find more info about it. Not exactly related, but in the same range lol. Thanks for posting!

Kaitlin, how did you like Training Rules?

 

[RS9999X]

Read a similar article a couple years back. No surprise Kate went the pseudo. Science route. Kate's mother is widely known in alt Christianity circles and well published

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Starbird#section_1

Sent from my Lumia 920 via Windows 8. Now bite me Apple Droids.

 

[Kait14]

Kaitlin, how did you like Training Rules?

I was DISGUSTED, and that is putting it as lightly as I possibly can. Don't know how ANYONE could be surprised with the whole cover up of Sandusky after seeing that.

 

[Icebear]

I was DISGUSTED, and that is putting it as lightly as I possibly can. Don't know how ANYONE could be surprised with the whole cover up of Sandusky after seeing that.

I am blessed to know Cindy Davies. We communicated during Rene's leaving and the filming of Training Rules. She is a great person ad suffered greatly because of Rene's bigotry.

 

[Kait14]

I am blessed to know Cindy Davies. We communicated during Rene's leaving and the filming of Training Rules. She is a great person ad suffered greatly because of Rene's bigotry.

It makes me so sad, to see the pain that those women still have almost 30 years later. Rene Portland is the epitome of an emotional terrorist. She ruined those innocent women's lives. I'm glad that she has fallen off the face of the earth. I was looking into Penn State as a grad school option, and immediately crossed them off my list after watching that. The institution as a whole, is a corrupt, disgusting place that I never want to be associate with.

I also think that it was her way of trying to hide her own homosexuality.

 

[Icebear]

It makes me so sad, to see the pain that those women still have almost 30 years later. Rene Portland is the epitome of an emotional terrorist. She ruined those innocent women's lives. I'm glad that she has fallen off the face of the earth. I was looking into Penn State as a grad school option, and immediately crossed them off my list after watching that. The institution as a whole, is a corrupt, disgusting place that I never want to be associate with.

I also think that it was her way of trying to hide her own homosexuality.

Kait, the university is nothing like any of those things today.

Rene's bigotry is now a thing of the past and Coquese Washington is doing a great job ending that era in Women's basketball. Sandusky's harm is similarly being dealt with directly and no longer carries any power in the community or on campus.

What someone your age needs to realize is that Rene's reign of terror was repeated at dozens of colleges and universities across the country and it is because people including the student bodies stood up and said not here, no longer that those things were brought into the light and ended. In other places it still occurs in the dark corners where light has not exposed i ot. Folks from the NCLR gave support to Jen Harris and others and enabled them to bring change to the community. All of your instincts to be offended are right and I celebrate them but those things are reduced in their power and influence every day.

Churches and denominations struggle everyday to define how to relate to and embrace our gay brothers and sisters. Some denominations have had the courage to define policies of inclusiveness and have lost members doing so and found their economic ability to do other ministries diminished. My congregation for 15 years has had a statement of welcome insuring all are welcome among us.

If the rest of the program you were interested in a PSU fits your goals I encourage you to keep an open mind and consider being a part of the process that keeps moving the university towards being a healthy community.

 

[Kait14]

Kait, the university is nothing like any of those things today.

Rene's bigotry is now a thing of the past and Coquese Washington is doing a great job ending that era in Women's basketball. Sandusky's harm is similarly being dealt with directly and no longer carries any power in the community or on campus.

What someone your age needs to realize is that Rene's reign of terror was repeated at dozens of colleges and universities across the country and it is because people including the student bodies stood up and said not here, no longer that those things were brought into the light and ended. In other places it still occurs in the dark corners where light has not exposed i ot. Folks from the NCLR gave support to Jen Harris and others and enabled them to bring change to the community. All of your instincts to be offended are right and I celebrate them but those things are reduced in their power and influence every day.

Churches and denominations struggle everyday to define how to relate to and embrace our gay brothers and sisters. Some denominations have had the courage to define policies of inclusiveness and have lost members doing so and found their economic ability to do other ministries diminished. My congregation for 15 years has had a statement of welcome insuring all are welcome among us.

If the rest of the program you were interested in a PSU fits your goals I encourage you to keep an open mind and consider being a part of the process that keeps moving the university towards being a healthy community.

While I understand everything you've said, there is no question that a degree from Penn State is tainted now. Will anyone actually think of anything other than the Sandusky mess when the name Penn State is brought up? I sure won't. And besides that, it was just one of my many "safety" options for grad school. UConn is still #1, I just have to keep my options open because it is extremely hard to get into.

 

[Icebear]

While I understand everything you've said, there is no question that a degree from Penn State is tainted now. Will anyone actually think of anything other than the Sandusky mess when the name Penn State is brought up? I sure won't. And besides that, it was just one of my many "safety" options for grad school. UConn is still #1, I just have to keep my options open because it is extremely hard to get into.

The statistics for graduate placements has been very good the last two years. People looking to hire care about what you know and what you can do for them.

 

[Big Fan]

Kait14 can you please explain what you mean by the Penn State Sandusky mess to me? If you have been keeping up with the situation I think you will find many journalists, including Bob Costas this week made a mistake rushing to judgment blaming Penn State and especially the athletic department by taking what ESPN and other "sports" news outlets said during the start which was basically the opinions of the show hosts and unfortunately an extremely flawed Freeh report which has now been shown to have numerous errors and was based on opinions not fact. The trials of the university president and AD are now looking to not be held until sometime in 2014 - and in reality the charges are going to be dropped.

Now you must then have issues with the entire state of Pennsylvania since it's clear now that the facts come out that it was the Second Mile foundation, the administrators and teachers at the middle schools involved and the Dept of Child Services who actually had responsibility for Jerry's conduct and the children who did nothing for years. Unfortunately pedophiles by their very nature have to excellent liars and have the ability to convince people that they are not what they really are. If they couldn't do these things they wouldn't be able to maintain this behavior for years. At this moment there is no concrete evidence that Penn State did anything wrong despite what the NCAA may want you to believe. How would you feel if people started saying UConn protects employees who sexually harass women? There is still an open case against Geno – and while I’m sure we all feel he is innocent. I’m sure you would say wait until the trial is settled. UConn’s guilt by association would be the same as Penn State’s. Worse because he actually is an active employee not a retiree.

 

[Kait14]

Kait14 can you please explain what you mean by the Penn State Sandusky mess to me? If you have been keeping up with the situation I think you will find many journalists, including Bob Costas this week made a mistake rushing to judgment blaming Penn State and especially the athletic department by taking what ESPN and other "sports" news outlets said during the start which was basically the opinions of the show hosts and unfortunately an extremely flawed Freeh report which has now been shown to have numerous errors and was based on opinions not fact. The trials of the university president and AD are now looking to not be held until sometime in 2014 - and in reality the charges are going to be dropped.

Now you must then have issues with the entire state of Pennsylvania since it's clear now that the facts come out that it was the Second Mile foundation, the administrators and teachers at the middle schools involved and the Dept of Child Services who actually had responsibility for Jerry's conduct and the children who did nothing for years. Unfortunately pedophiles by their very nature have to excellent liars and have the ability to convince people that they are not what they really are. If they couldn't do these things they wouldn't be able to maintain this behavior for years. At this moment there is no concrete evidence that Penn State did anything wrong despite what the NCAA may want you to believe. How would you feel if people started saying UConn protects employees who sexually harass women? There is still an open case against Geno – and while I’m sure we all feel he is innocent. I’m sure you would say wait until the trial is settled. UConn’s guilt by association would be the same as Penn State’s. Worse because he actually is an active employee not a retiree.

Penn State covered for Rene Portland and protected her while she ruined young women's lives, and Paterno, who ran that place, covered for Sandusky and allowed him to ruin young boys' lives. Comparing Geno's case to Penn State's debacle is ridiculous, they are nothing alike. And I've spoke with MANY Penn State grads who feel the same way; that a degree from Penn State has been tarnished because of what has happened.

 

[RS9999X]

I know Penn State grads who view Portland as a throwback, much like Bobby Knight, to an earlier era. Hardly worth mentioning in any social context. It's like asking them if civilian drone deaths overseas makes them diminished Americans. Certain activists might push that view but people aren't buying.

Sent from my Lumia 920 via Windows 8. Now bite me Apple Droids.

 

[Icebear]

Penn State covered for Rene Portland and protected her while she ruined young women's lives, and Paterno, who ran that place, covered for Sandusky and allowed him to ruin young boys' lives. Comparing Geno's case to Penn State's debacle is ridiculous, they are nothing alike. And I've spoke with MANY Penn State grads who feel the same way; that a degree from Penn State has been tarnished because of what has happened.

Kait, PennState did not "cover" for Rene. They did not move quick enough for some and yes, people suffered and were scarred terribly. 100 years ago Oscar Wilde was jailed for being gay, others were killed like Matthew Shepherd in 1998. Penn State slowly and steadily tightened the rules until it was possible for what occurred in the end to happen. Pressure from the student body helped that occur. Pressure from the faculty helped that occur. Finally, when the discrimination rules were in place BOTH at the university and at the state and federal level it, actually, became possible for a group like NCLR to back Jen Harris in her suit and force Rene's leaving PSU. it takes time to change the laws. In the mean time it falls to the rest of us to provide care and support.

As I said you did not grow up through the era when such things were the norm because issues of sexual orientation were treated a moral and psychological defect. It was abhorrent, cruel, and tragically quite the norm. One cannot live history backwards applying the insights and values of today on situations 2 and 3 decades past. As much as I hated the her actions Rene was defending a position that was absolutely consistent with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church then and now. It is, also, the right of the Catholic Church to defend its teachings and had Rene been coach at a private school accepting no federal monies she would have had the right to enforce rules consistent with the church's teachings. Those disagreeing are free to disassociate.

Ironically, trying to push Rene and Sandusky into the same moral spectrum is an inappropriate approach because Rene would have despised Sandusky's actions for the same reason she did not want lesbian athletes on her teams.

Christian denominations that are addressing these issues today and are welcoming folks across the rainbow are suffering and struggling with membership losses because other members see those congregations as abandoning 2000 years of the church's teaching and struggle to reconcile the various Biblical teaching which are often in conflict with societal reality. Churches both led the civil rights movement and the resistance to civil rights, the same is true today.

 

[RS9999X]

Yes, the role of classification and progression under psychology and psychiatry is. also, part of the history that is part of the complex of cultural and religious mores defining societal norms. The impact of DSM standards both follows and leads society.

These were the experts practicing quackery.

As far as the Catholic Church goes divorce is a disorder. As are Hollywood marriages, Las Vegas Elvis wedding chapels, remarriages, gay marriages, and anything else that doesn't suggest that procreation and the act of co-creation whereby sex is a vehicle for souls to cross over from the spiritual to material world through childbirth.


Sent from my Lumia 920 via Windows 8. Now bite me Apple Droids.

 

[Icebear]

These were the experts practicing quackery.

As far as the Catholic Church goes divorce is a disorder. As are Hollywood marriages, Las Vegas Elvis wedding chapels, remarriages, gay marriages, and anything else that doesn't suggest that procreation and the act of co-creation whereby sex is a vehicle for souls to cross over from the spiritual to material world through childbirth.


Sent from my Lumia 920 via Windows 8. Now bite me Apple Droids.

Your assessment of DSM and psychiatry is overstated but unless you have read and understand the functioning of DSM it is not surprising. It is statistically based and points to patterns of behavior. It is a soft science but does try to apply principles of observation and analysis. It is in constant refinement as a tool. The more study that is done the better its ability to theorize.

Yup, as far as the Roman church goes all of that is true, as well as, its repeated protection of the institution over against the abused individual.

 

[Sargassoc]

As much as I hated the her actions Rene was defending a position that was absolutely consistent with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church then and now. It is, also, the right of the Catholic Church to defend its teachings and had Rene been coach at a private school accepting no federal monies she would have had the right to enforce rules consistent with the church's teachings.

Yes, that might be true-- but Rene Portland perpetuated her bigotry at a public institution, not at Immaculata. Additionally, she could have allowed those she perceived as lesbians to transfer-- but she refused. If it were simply consistent with her religious upbringing, she could have let those women succeed elsewhere. She did not do that, choosing, instead, to end their careers.

I have no sympathy for Rene Portland. None.

 

[Icebear]

Yes, that might be true-- but Rene Portland perpetuated her bigotry at a public institution, not at Immaculata. Additionally, she could have allowed those she perceived as lesbians to transfer-- but she refused. If it were simply consistent with her religious upbringing, she could have let those women succeed elsewhere. She did not do that, choosing, instead, to end their careers.

I have no sympathy for Rene Portland. None.

Absolutely, and your point is exactly mine thus the last sentence, "and had Rene been coach at a private school accepting no federal monies she would have had the right to enforce rules consistent with the church's teachings.." It was a point I literally made dozens of times on the Penn Live Women's basketball board during that era.

Besides providing support directly to individuals that is why many of us pushed so hard for her dismissal and the abuses to end. For that to occur many steps had to be in place including various civil rights laws and protections and the stated policy position put in place by the university in 1998(?). In many situations Rene did more than make it possible for those student athletes to transfer, she necessitated it by lifting scholarships. Other times she drug out the process and made people suffer as long as possible when trying to transfer. The straw that broken the camels back was the midnight massacre following the loss to Liberty University.

 

[Sargassoc]

This is where I respectfully disagree with you, Ice. By 1998, plenty of other colleges and universities understood that some of their students-- past, present, and future-- were LGBTQ, and they worked hard to protect the rights of all of them while providing education to their student bodies. A brief perusal of the History section of this Wikipedia entry indicates this started happening in U.S. colleges as early as 1970.

Penn State chose to back Rene Portland, both explicitly and implicitly.

 

[Icebear]

This is where I respectfully disagree with you, Ice. By 1998, plenty of other colleges and universities understood that some of their students-- past, present, and future-- were LGBTQ, and they worked hard to protect the rights of all of them while providing education to their student bodies. A brief perusal of the History section of this Wikipedia entry indicates this started happening in U.S. colleges as early as 1970.

Penn State chose to back Rene Portland, both explicitly and implicitly.

Such things take time to spread throughout the culture 1970 to 1998 is a short time in social change. That does not mean there was or wasn't a coverup. Personally, I think it was neglect, not a coverup, thus implicitly but not explicitly. Under advice of counsel in 1998 the university put in place a written policy. It was largely the result of the articles in the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia papers. Rene was then put on notice. It is, also, important to remember that until a complaint is formally put in place actions are limited. There were numerous lawyers involved on all sides. I am not what the status would be today if the NCLR had not stepped up and backed Jen Harris.

In 1998 there were still hundreds of colleges that were terrified of having to address LGBT issues. As we all know the federal government is still struggling with those issues and the impact of changes in policy.

 

[RS9999X]

Your assessment of DSM and psychiatry is overstated but unless you have read and understand the functioning of DSM it is not surprising. It is statistically based and points to patterns of behavior. It is a soft science but does try to apply principles of observation and analysis. It is in constant refinement as a tool. The more study that is done the better its ability to theorize. .

I can't give them a pass for using treatments that they knew were ineffective. As far as DSM goes you could make a case based on 1980s DSM norms that the LGBT activist obsessed with their 'tragic sexuality' and spoutng neo-reparations politics is in need of therapy. Much like Penn State groupies minimizing the harm done at Penn State (head duck to avoid sharply thrown object).

 

[RS9999X]

In 1998 there were still hundreds of colleges that were terrified of having to address LGBT issues. As we all know the federal government is still struggling with those issues and the impact of changes in policy.

Then there's sports culture and the whole "athletes as role models" thing and the old men who are donors and not necessarily interested in cutting edge sexual politics in athletics. Not to mention freedom of speech issues in Academic Environments

In Sandusky's case there are a handful of mitigating factors including his retirement and the State of Pennsylvanias failed investigation as well as the incredulous thought that after all but shaming Sandusky publically he goes out and does it again on campus after he's been retired and does so under the guise of a charity. PSU officials didn't get that you can't apply rational thought to a man that ill. It's a form of self-destructive compulsion. The greater risk to PSU was giving Sandusky any rope or personal dignity.

 

[RS9999X]

Blast from the past:

Posted: January 10, 1992
Holding up signs that proclaimed, "Save the Lesbians," an ad hoc coalition of vocal gay rights activists showed up at Temple last night in protest of Penn State women's basketball coach Rene Portland, an outspoken opponent of lesbianism in collegiate athletics.

Seated behind the Penn State bench as the ninth-ranked Lions defeated Temple, 92-76, a crowd of about 35 demonstrators, members of Queer Action, assailed Portland for discriminatory comments in which she claimed that she was attempting to change the stereotype of female athletes as "dykes" and for an alleged ban of lesbians from her team in the past. Chanting slogans such as, "Out of the closet and on the court!" and "Fire the coach, not the dykes!" the group blew whistles at Portland as she led her team off the court at halftime and staged as "kiss-in" during a second-half timeout

 

[Kait14]

Yes, that might be true-- but Rene Portland perpetuated her bigotry at a public institution, not at Immaculata. Additionally, she could have allowed those she perceived as lesbians to transfer-- but she refused. If it were simply consistent with her religious upbringing, she could have let those women succeed elsewhere. She did not do that, choosing, instead, to end their careers.

I have no sympathy for Rene Portland. None.

Exactly. She RUINED their lives. It wasn't about not wanting lesbians on her team, it was about not wanting lesbians ANYWHERE.

 

[Icebear]

Yes, she did. And that is the tragedy and is the reason the fight to protect the rights of LGBT people must continue because there are still people suffering today from bullying and prejudice.