OT: East German doping

[alexrgct]

If you haven't seen this excellent PBS documentary about the East German doping program, it's the most comprehensive documentary I'm aware of on the subject. Given that this is an Olympic year and that there is interest in women's sports in general on this board, I thought some people would be interested.

The young women who participated in East Germany's athletic programs from 1974-89 paid enormous physical prices to bring glory to the DDR/GDR. The 1976 Olympics were a virtual ambush, especially in women's swimming. American Wendy Boglioli is featured in the documentary, but it was compatriot Shirley Babashoff whose legacy was most hurt by the DDR's cheating. The 1976 Olympics should have been her crowning moment as a swimmer, but she never won an individual gold. She was also outspoken about her suspicions at the time, and was lambasted in the media as being a poor sport.

Anyway quite a sad but morbidly fascinating story.

 

[sarals24]

I've seen this! This subject is so fascinating. The movie Lives of Others shows just how meticulous the East Germans were at keeping records, it's unbelieveable!
There was a great piece on NBC during the 1992 Olympics about this very subject...they intervied Shirley who was obviously still very bitter about it years later. She could have been a huge star in the US, she was adorable and had a great personality. I had a tape of some of the Games and watched it religiously, and they played it during one of Janet Evans's races.

So sad. And the athletes either had no idea or no choice. And it has severely affected their health and lives later on.

 

[alexrgct]

I remember that segment from 1992. That may actually have been where my interest started since I was born in 1978 (thereby missing the 1976 games and the 1980 games - which weren't aired domestically anyway- and of course the East Germans boycotted the 1984 games), so I only had some recollection of Kristin Otto from 1988. Haven't seen the segment since it was aired live, but I remember Shirley talking about how many of the DDR swimmers sounded like men in the locker room when they'd talk. I think at the time, her concerns were dismissed as poort sportsmanship, plus this cute girl next door type with her closed-minded views of what women should look and sound like. Interestingly, we're running into this today with Brittney Griner, except that in this case, I'm confident that people who defend BG are right.

East Germany was indeed a terrifying place, a combination of Stalinism with touches of frighteningly efficient Nazi-style fascism mixed in. I enjoyed The Lives of Others too!

 

[sarals24]

Yeah I remember it so well, the music was haunting!

For a fun take on communism, watch Goodbye Lenin!

 

[Artifact]

In Communism you belong to the State & not God. Their is no dignity of man.

 

[Icebear]

Whew! I thought they were taking measures to lower the IQ of the German public.

 

[Sakibomb25]

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely watch it when I get around to it.

If you were Babashoff, wouldn't you still be bitter? Obviously it is not healthy for her to hold on to this resentment - what's done is done. But when you pour your whole life into something, only to watch others unfairly snatch it from you... that is something that could change you forever. I just hope she can find peace one day, if she hasn't already.

 

[alexrgct]

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely watch it when I get around to it.

If you were Babashoff, wouldn't you still be bitter? Obviously it is not healthy for her to hold on to this resentment - what's done is done. But when you pour your whole life into something, only to watch others unfairly snatch it from you... that is something that could change you forever. I just hope she can find peace one day, if she hasn't already.

I think Shirley is still bitter. Time has lessened the edge perhaps, but when you think that she won three individual silver medals and I believe would have set world records in more than one of those events (other than the DDR swimmers' times), it cost her a lot. Her legacy in the sport isn't what it should have been, her endorsement opportunities weren't what they should have been, and because she chose to speak her mind about her suspicions, she suffered reputational damage that left her pretty scarred emotionally, however vindicated her suspicions proved to be. Think about ESPNW's Title IX era list. She probably should be on there, and almost certainly won't be.

My understanding is that she leads a very retired life. She'll attend an event every now and again, but she's nowhere as active in the swimming or Olympic alumni/ae communities as she could be.

 

[UConnCat]

I think Shirley is still bitter. Time has lessened the edge perhaps, but when you think that she won three individual silver medals and I believe would have set world records in more than one of those events (other than the DDR swimmers' times), it cost her a lot. Her legacy in the sport isn't what it should have been, her endorsement opportunities weren't what they should have been, and because she chose to speak her mind about her suspicions, she suffered reputational damage that left her pretty scarred emotionally, however vindicated her suspicions proved to be. Think about ESPNW's Title IX era list. She probably should be on there, and almost certainly won't be.

My understanding is that she leads a very retired life. She'll attend an event every now and again, but she's nowhere as active in the swimming or Olympic alumni/ae communities as she could be.

The 4X100 race won by the American team (anchored by Babashoff) in Montreal is still one of the most exciting and remarkable races I've ever watched. Having won gold in almost every event leading up to that race, everyone believed the East German women would win that race too. No one gave the American women much of a chance. They earned a tiny bit of redemption with that win. But as remarkable as that win was, I understand there is no video.

I believe the IOC should award Babashoff (and other affected swimmers) with gold medals. It's long overdue.

 

[Sakibomb25]

Have the gold medals been vacated yet? If so, they should most definitely be awarded a gold medal.

 

[wallman]

Wow I never knew that the athletes didn't know about the doping, I will have to watch. It's really sad to think about how many people this hurt in so many different ways.

 

[arty155]

Whew! I thought they were taking measures to lower the IQ of the German public.

-LOL: Should we vote? Take your pick: is it about a dope, doping, or duplicity.
-Maybe there is a case for lower IQ; Petra Thumer's (45:00 in the documentary) a piece of work.
-But it seems instead like plenty of the same old calculated duplicity that East Germany had, and apparently Thumer quite willingly continues to promote, forever now a part of Olympic history.
- Boglioli’s gift: My thanks to the stronger woman in this story. Wendy Boglioli’s efforts to help publicize this are a gift - without which I don’t see how my daughters or any of my neighbors who are serious about woman’s athletics, would otherwise know the truth.
- Thumer’ gift: Thumer’s contribution today seems clear in her “gift” at the end of this article: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/olympics/2004421884_olynotes18.html Despite the program’s damage to the women around her, her government’s collapse, she’s remained a loyal Stalinist still “proud” of how the program worked out for her. Hey, what problem? Thanks for making that clear, Thumer.
-OK, I’m ready. I’ll vote for duplicity.


- PS: Thanks a lot to Alexrgct for highlighting this – you are truly Wise.
-PPS: Thanks Serals24, Goodbye Lenin was funny. I can see now how it won all those Euro film awards (I’m guessing without poor Thumer’s vote)

 

[stamfordhusky]

If you were Babashoff, wouldn't you still be bitter? Obviously it is not healthy for her to hold on to this resentment - what's done is done. But when you pour your whole life into something, only to watch others unfairly snatch it from you... that is something that could change you forever. I just hope she can find peace one day, if she hasn't already.

Yes, it's easy to understand her still being a little bitter. The American press was surely a big contributor - choosing to turn a blind eye towards obvious cheating by East Germany and the USSR, either through sheer stupidity or perhaps some sort of anti-Americanism. The treatment of Babashoff by many in the press was disgraceful.

It should have been obvious at the time to any competent journalist that there was massive cheating going on. It was certainly obvious to me. When the truth finally came out, to me it was a 1 on my 1-100 surprise meter.

 

[JACKofallTrades]

Yes, it's easy to understand her still being a little bitter. The American press was surely a big contributor - choosing to turn a blind eye towards obvious cheating by East Germany and the USSR, either through sheer stupidity or perhaps some sort of anti-Americanism. The treatment of Babashoff by many in the press was disgraceful.

It should have been obvious at the time to any competent journalist that there was massive cheating going on. It was certainly obvious to me. When the truth finally came out, to me it was a 1 on my 1-100 surprise meter.

I saw the documentary some years ago. It should be required viewing for any high school athlete. It's multi-layered....science (physiology), politics & history (cold war & totalitarian states), and morality.

I remember Shirley Babashoff was given lots of pre-Olympic hype (fully earned). Imagine if something similar (cheating) had happened to Mark Spitz or Phelps. They'd be mere footnotes today. Look at the adulation, money & business opportunities that were lost (stolen). Most people today, even sports fans, don't know who Shirley Babashoff is. She, like Spitz & Phelps, swam 10 miles a day for 4 years and deserved recognition for being the best in that era. Sad.

I also agree the media (in general), and sports media was pathetic. (then & over the years). And the US Olympic movement (political) bozos too (many, not all, of em).

 

[ed4ourgirls]

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely watch it when I get around to it.

If you were Babashoff, wouldn't you still be bitter? Obviously it is not healthy for her to hold on to this resentment - what's done is done. But when you pour your whole life into something, only to watch others unfairly snatch it from you... that is something that could change you forever. I just hope she can find peace one day, if she hasn't already.

Speaking of not getting past disappointment, as far as I know, nearly all the members
of the 1972 Men's Olympic BB team still refuse to accept their silver medals after
losing to the Russians because of some manipulation by an olympic basketball official
( not the game officials - as far as they were concerned the game was over).

Afterwards the official ( a Brit IIRC) admitted that he did it because he thought
it would be good for international basketball if someone other than the USA won.

 

[alexrgct]

Have the gold medals been vacated yet? If so, they should most definitely be awarded a gold medal.

The IOC has been reluctant to strip the DDR athletes of their medals for reasons I don't fully understand. I get that they didn't fail any drug tests, but there's more than ample documentation that everyone in the program was being administered steroids in large amounts.