OT - College Admissions Math

[kibblesnbits]

It is cheaper for a poor/middle class person to go to a place like Harvard than UCONN. They have such big endowments that they give free need based scholarships because all they want are the best and have enough money, over 30 Billion endowment, to just basically give admission away. The average price that the poor/middle class person pays at Harvard is $12,000 per year to attend according to them and that is a large majority of the students included in that population. Only extremely wealthy people actually pay those high rates that you see. If you are smart and poor/middle class, those elite privates are far cheaper than UConn.

That's true to a degree. When my elder daughter was looking at Financial Aid packages, UConn was nearly free because of academic scholarships (didn't qualify for financial-based awards), but Yale, which doesn't offer merit scholarships, was second based solely on their generous financial aid for my middle class family. Harvard and Yale are beyond everyone else, however. Offers from other Ivies, Stanford, MIT, etc. were generous, but not like the "Big 2" (she didn't apply to Harvard but I'm basing that on the similarity of their aid policies to Yale's).

The problem is that there are only 20-25 or so privates (including the very exclusive liberal arts schools) with such massive endowments that they can offer middle class families aid packages that compete with state school costs. Many non-Ivies then further limit their financial aid flexibility by giving merit scholarships even to the very rich.

So, I agree with Upstater that public school demand will increase significantly. Further, I think many 3rd and 4th tier privates will go out of business. However, I don't see where the budget is going to come from for a massive public school expansion. Most capacity expansion that does occur will be lower budget options at the community college and on-line learning levels. Flagship state schools like UConn, which offer great benefits but also are the most resource-intensive public options, will become more selective as demand outpaces capacity. I hope I'm wrong, but that's my expectation.

 

[LoyalFanCT]

UConn may get better ranking on the US News World Report list if it was more difficult to gain acceptance for students. There is a wonderful debate if that is a good thing to do.

 

[Dizzy21]

That's true to a degree. When my elder daughter was looking at Financial Aid packages, UConn was nearly free because of academic scholarships (didn't qualify for financial-based awards), but Yale, which doesn't offer merit scholarships, was second based solely on their generous financial aid for my middle class family. Harvard and Yale are beyond everyone else, however. Offers from other Ivies, Stanford, MIT, etc. were generous, but not like the "Big 2" (she didn't apply to Harvard but I'm basing that on the similarity of their aid policies to Yale's).

The problem is that there are only 20-25 or so privates (including the very exclusive liberal arts schools) with such massive endowments that they can offer middle class families aid packages that compete with state school costs. Many non-Ivies then further limit their financial aid flexibility by giving merit scholarships even to the very rich.

So, I agree with Upstater that public school demand will increase significantly. Further, I think many 3rd and 4th tier privates will go out of business. However, I don't see where the budget is going to come from for a massive public school expansion. Most capacity expansion that does occur will be lower budget options at the community college and on-line learning levels. Flagship state schools like UConn, which offer great benefits but also are the most resource-intensive public options, will become more selective as demand outpaces capacity. I hope I'm wrong, but that's my expectation.

I can definitely see your point, I think my original point was that there are just more factors to weigh than looking at what they post for cost, so I wasn't trying to come off as every other place is as inexpensive as UConn. As I made in another point above, I do believe the "cheap and easy" government backed loans steer more people to abnormally expensive schools because they think they are affordable, at least until they graduate and start to pay the loans. So while I agree with the possibility of public demand increasing, I also see it being less as long as easy loans remain and the perception that possibly more expensive means better, which in my experience is definitely not always the case.

 

[TRest]

Just know that UConn weighs SATs very heavily. I know people that got into Storrs with sub 3.0 gpas but 1400 (Math/Reading) SATs and I also know people who were denied and placed at a branch with 3.9 gpas and 1100 SATs

A financial services professional who gets involved with families seeking guidance on paying for college told us that of UConn's incoming freshmen, a large percentage is now out-of-state students. Over 50%, which seemed much too high for a state university.

 

[JMick]

A financial services professional who gets involved with families seeking guidance on paying for college told us that of UConn's incoming freshmen, a large percentage is now out-of-state students. Over 50%, which seemed much too high for a state university.

I have a really, really hard time believing that

 

[upstater]

Yeah, net cost is key. Also, as not too many people are that fiscally responsible, a lot of people tend to think that getting a cheap loan for expensive college actually makes it affordable. They do find out that when they get out of college it sucks, but I do think the ease of which government backed loans are given out for college plays into people not really caring how much it costs, at least of lot of people, especially those who never took college loans out before...

Gov't backed loans top out at $5.8k. You can't take out more than that for undergrad. It's the private loan industry that is the problem. The gov't backed loans are not the problem. In fact, when I was in school 30 years ago, govt back loan top end was $3k, so these things have not gone up much. It's the private side that is causing all the trouble.

 

[upstater]

I have a really, really hard time believing that

A lot people think this guidance people are selling snake oil. I understand that the whole application process is a huge headache and confusing, but you can get all the info you need by spending hours digging through info on the internet.

 

[upstater]

Public schools are planning massive expansions.

So--whether they hire staff to meet the new demand is another question. They may not. Which is how they can bring in more students without worrying about new expenditures.

The cost per student will like go down (cost per student is total academic budget divided by number of students).

They are also talking about hiring permanent untenured clinical staff teaching multiple classes for average incomes (in the $40k range) because the use of adjuncts is becoming more and more untenable.

I would make the strong argument though that being educated by such professional staff, even those with advanced degrees and PhDs, etc., is not much of an education. If faculty are not involved in research, what are they teaching you? So, the idea is that at the introductory level you may have people teaching who are not involved in research. I think it will become stale.

 

[Dizzy21]

Gov't backed loans top out at $5.8k. You can't take out more than that for undergrad. It's the private loan industry that is the problem. The gov't backed loans are not the problem. In fact, when I was in school 30 years ago, govt back loan top end was $3k, so these things have not gone up much. It's the private side that is causing all the trouble.

My point wasn't necessarily govt or non govt, but rather cheap loans to anyone, but isn't it 5.5k per year for subsidized government back loans with a max of 23k subsidized and 9.5K per year un-subsidized govt backed loans with a max of 57k, 23k of those subsidized for undergrad and then 140k for graduate I believe. Regardless, my point is not so much the government part, but rather the cheap loans part that they give to everyone, which leads people to believe the education is cheaper until they get that first jobby job and realize they are screwed with the forever loan payments and a job that doesn't pay enough for all the loans and rent and then they have to live with their parents ahaha!

 

[TRest]

A lot people think this guidance people are selling snake oil. I understand that the whole application process is a huge headache and confusing, but you can get all the info you need by spending hours digging through info on the internet.

I don't believe it but I couldn't find the percentage on the internet. I can see the appeal to UConn by charging higher tuitions and becoming more of a national university, but it should exist to serve the state population first.

 

[huskymedic]

A financial services professional who gets involved with families seeking guidance on paying for college told us that of UConn's incoming freshmen, a large percentage is now out-of-state students. Over 50%, which seemed much too high for a state university.

I don't believe it but I couldn't find the percentage on the internet. I can see the appeal to UConn by charging higher tuitions and becoming more of a national university, but it should exist to serve the state population first.

Some info here... The state of UConn in 15 charts (See charts 4 & 5)
(caveat - assuming data is accurate.)

 

[jayfromfla]

Govt loans are charging up to 8% int but the same govt loans$$& to the banks for1/2%

 

[Redding Husky]

I'm not a big fan of transferring. Unless you are in a major that requires going to a certain school I'm not sure it is helpful. And if he feels he has to go to UCONN he could branch. But who knows how it will all turn out.

Transferring is difficult. I transferred from Bradley University (Illinois) to UConn at the start of my junior year and that process was much more difficult than I expected. The juniors already had their cliques well established and I had outgrown hanging out with freshmen.

 

[J187Money]

My son got in, so he is 3 for 3 at this point, waiting on 7 more. But pretty sure he is going to be a Husky!

 

[uconnphil2016]

My son got in, so he is 3 for 3 at this point, waiting on 7 more. But pretty sure he is going to be a Husky!

Congrats!

 

[wethyhusky]

My twin daughters also received their acceptance today! They have multiple options but thinking Uconn will be the most cost effective. Plenty of pressure as my wife, me, my parents etc. are all grads

 

[HuskyHawk]

My son got in, so he is 3 for 3 at this point, waiting on 7 more. But pretty sure he is going to be a Husky!

Congrats. I'll be here in 3 years with my post worrying about this stuff. Since we are in Mass, I'm really temped to try to steer her to the midwest or south. I'd be happy if she applies at UConn though.

 

[J187Money]

My son got in, so he is 3 for 3 at this point, waiting on 7 more. But pretty sure he is going to be a Husky!

Ultimately we are going in another direction - he really wanted to run in college so we are going DIII.