OT - City of Providence, RI

[nelsonmuntz]

Hartford should be a lot better than it is, and Providence has done very well to be as good a city as it is. Hartford has a much better economic base than Providence, and is easier to get to from the surrounding metro area. While Connecticut has corruption, it is bush league compared to Rhode Island, which holds seminars in corruption. Rhode Island, Illinois and Louisiana are an entirely different league when it comes to government corruption. Connecticut isn't even in the next Ohio/New Jersey level of corruption.

The result of this is that Rhode Island is a difficult state to do business in, because the bribes and kickbacks are virtually endless. Rhode Island was recently rated as the worst state for business in the entire country. Since the ocean is not going anywhere, Rhode Island can continue to operate like it does and maintain a minimum level of economic activity. All of which makes the Providence renaissance all the more impressive. It is simply a great small city that has done well despite its state.

Connecticut has poured money into its cities, and nothing seems to work. I don't think it is corruption as much as incompetence. While Waterbury is a lost cause, and Stamford is fine on its own, Hartford, Bridgeport and New Haven should not suck as bad as they do.

 

[husky99]

that fire water thing is very cool... bring kids or loved one

 

[upstater]

I don't see why people are comparing Providence to Hartford. It should be more properly compared to New Haven.

Providence v. New Haven

1. Brown, Prov. Coll., RISD, Johnson & Wales = Yale, UNH, So. Ct. St. U., Albertus Magnus

2. Great ethnic food in both places / I think fine cuisine is so-so, not great, in both cities (Prov. has a great French restaurant near the banks below the East side, NH has the Union League cafe

3. Pretty good bar scenes.

4. I'd give an edge to New Haven's theater and arts scene. New Haven's galleries and libraries associated with Yale are world class, while Brown doesn't have anything like that. Yale Rep. Theatre and Long Wharf are well known.

5. Access to big cities: NH is 1 hr. from NY by train, Prov. is 45 mins. from Boston

6. Access to pretty good beaches: Prov. is about 45 minutes from Little Compton and Horseneck, New Haven about 35 minutes from Hammonasset.

7. The only thing Prov. has better than New Haven is better hotels and a better downtown mall, if you're into that sort of thing.

 

[RS9999X]

Hartford v Providence:

Size: the same. 18 square miles
Population: P is 50% larger
Whites: H 15.8% P 40%
Blacks: H 40% P 16%

After White Flight in the post Reagan era most of the best White Housing is along the border of the burbs. You can hear some old white women in a nice Tudor up there on Asylum screaming to the kids: "I don't want you going downtown. You go to Blue Black Square where you belong. And try screwing some Doctor's son. That's what your mom did!"

from Wikipedia:

With 30 percent of the population living below the poverty line, Hartford's rate of poverty is second in the United States only to Brownsville, Texas.[22]

 

[Robertelamin]

Hartford screwed itself by not keeping up with West Hartford Center. Hartford can't compete with Providence when Hartford can't compete against one of its suburbs. I mean really, why go to Hartford when you can go to West Hartford unless you are going to a game/concert?

 

[RS9999X]

Hartford screwed itself by not keeping up with West Hartford Center. Hartford can't compete with Providence when Hartford can't compete against one of its suburbs. I mean really, why go to Hartford when you can go to West Hartford unless you are going to a game/concert?

That's it. Manchester Malls to the East side, Enfield or Holyoke Malls to the North, newer malls in Simsbury and Blue Black to the West, and Berlin/Newington/Wethersfield to the south. Hartford is not a destination point unless you work there or go to the Civic Center. Same story since Bill Savitt closed his doors . New firms opening up in Windsor or Manchester or Bristol and avoiding Hartford completely..

Hartford's no place for th soccer mom crowd.

Then comes the Romney budget cuts in state government and Romney recession

 

[RS9999X]

500 largest US cities in the US (population of 64,000 and above. 2010 Census)

Top 10 poverty rates (individual)
Detroit , MI ''--' 31.3
Lorain , OH ''--' 31.0
Flint , MI ''--' 30.9
Camden , NJ ''--' 30.2
Youngstown , OH ''--' 29.8
Brownsville , TX ''--' 29.8
Hartford , CT ''--' 29.7
Gary , IN ''--' 29.6
Pontiac , MI ''--' 29.1
Cleveland , OH ''--' 28.8

 

[upstater]

That's it. Manchester Malls to the East side, Enfield or Holyoke Malls to the North, newer malls in Simsbury and Blue Black to the West, and Berlin/Newington/Wethersfield to the south. Hartford is not a destination point unless you work there or go to the Civic Center. Same story since Bill Savitt closed his doors . New firms opening up in Windsor or Manchester or Bristol and avoiding Hartford completely..

Hartford's no place for th soccer mom crowd.

Then comes the Romney budget cuts in state government and Romney recession

Every city in America has such destination points. Some get along just fine regardless. It's about density. It's about urban housing and transport. Those are the issues. Until a city gets serious about housing, you're not going to find people out and about. New Haven in the 1980s had very little housing in the center. Then you had the 9th square redevelopment, townhouses popping up on Whitney, and soon they achieved a decent mass that encouraged other developers to get to work on Chapel and College. It's not great but you need that kind of forward thinking.

 

[Waquoit]

Hartford is not a destination point unless you work there or go to the Civic Center.

So I guess I won't see you at the Bushnell Park Jazz Festival tonight?

 

[RIHusky13]

I think Providence has done a very good job of not trying to be anything it's not. It's not a big city and it doesn't try to be. I think the best move Providence made was building the Providence Place mall. Instead of throwing up some ugly skyscraper that you would go in if you worked there, adding the mall gave people a real destination for going downtown. Then connecting it to the Westin hotel, RI convention center, and Dunkin Donuts center was great for the city. For Providence College games, people will park in the mall garage ($2 for up to five hours), eat at the mall, then walk to the Dunkin Donuts center without ever having to go outside.

Also, the city embraces the culture of Brown and RISD on the east side, which makes you feel like you're in an entirely different place after driving or walking only minutes from downtown.

 

[upstater]

Providence's Trinity Repertory Company has won a Tony Award for outstanding regional theater. Several recent Academy Award actor nominees have been part of the company at one time such as Viola Davis and Richard Jenkins. The resident RI Philharmonic makes its home at the 1,900 seat Veterans Memorial Auditorium. The Providence Performing Arts Center, a 3,100 seat venue hosts touring Broadway shows and concerts. The recently renovated 12,400 seat Dunkin Donuts Center hosts many sporting events and concerts. There are alos a number of live music venues such as Lupos.

The MBTA commuter rail now extwends from Boston to Wickford (town of North Kingstown), a few stops south of Providence with longer term plans to extend it to Kington (URI( and Westerly.

[/quote]

I stand by what I wrote. I've lived in both cities. New Haven is considered O.O.Broadway. Every city has live music venues, even Rochester. No big deal there.

 

[RS9999X]

Every city in America has such destination points. Some get along just fine regardless. It's about density. It's about urban housing and transport. Those are the issues. Until a city gets serious about housing, you're not going to find people out and about. New Haven in the 1980s had very little housing in the center. Then you had the 9th square redevelopment, townhouses popping up on Whitney, and soon they achieved a decent mass that encouraged other developers to get to work on Chapel and College. It's not great but you need that kind of forward thinking.

Before the market crash Larry Gottesdiener's who owned half of Hartford apartments like Hartfrod 21 was armed with urban density studies and pushing to have the Civic Center moved to the other side of Route 84 and Albany ave which would open up mucho space for new apartments and condos and likely mean Albany Ave would be upscale on the lower section and behind the CC would be old Hartford. That was when the Butt Ugly Building was Hartford's mascot.

Now Northland's in dire financial straights after losing most of their portfolio like the Goodiwn Hotel and Metro North.

 

[RS9999X]

So I guess I won't see you at the Bushnell Park Jazz Festival tonight?

No but you misunderstand me. I like Hartford -- there's quite a bit to do if you are willing to dig a little to find the film festivals, plays and theaters, and jazz nights. Real Art Ways, the Warehouse,--there's stuff going on.

 

[Palatine]

Just get the BE out of Providence. It's nice they set the river on fire like Cleveland used to. But having the BE there is stupid.

 

[Yonick]

It's a positive to have 4,500 more empty seats sitting there unused? Who goes to the Civic Center for anything anymore?

The UConn men sell out most of their BE games, along with OOC big games. Baylor & the UConn women will sell out.
Plus, many concerts will sell just giving the XL center a good advantage over the "Dunk". The Whale are the only problem here.

 

[Rico444]

5. Access to big cities: NH is 1 hr. from NY by train, Prov. is 45 mins. from Boston


New Haven is 2 hours, not one away. I take the train in from Milford, which is closer than New Haven, and it's a 1 hour, 47 minute ride.

 

[upstater]

5. Access to big cities: NH is 1 hr. from NY by train, Prov. is 45 mins. from Boston


New Haven is 2 hours, not one away. I take the train in from Milford, which is closer than New Haven, and it's a 1 hour, 47 minute ride.

Oh well, then drive. I've made it to NYC in 45 mins. on a night without traffic.

 

[yankeewc]

Mayor Buddy Cianci was mayor of Providence 1975/1984 and 1991/2002. Forced to resign twice due to felony convictions and served 4 yrs in federal prison. Many books written on the massive corruption going on in Providence politics but many things got done that otherwise would never have been accomplished. In this instance, crime did pay for the city of Providence.

 

[Excalibur]

Agree that NH is the better comparison. Hartford has screwed up just about every major decision in the last 30 years. More below.

I don't see why people are comparing Providence to Hartford. It should be more properly compared to New Haven.

Providence v. New Haven

1. Brown, Prov. Coll., RISD, Johnson & Wales = Yale, UNH, So. Ct. St. U., Albertus Magnus Other than Yale, Prov. is much more "connected" to its colleges. Plus, Yale didn't give a shit about the surrounding neighborhoods until about 10 years ago. The improvement since then has been astounding.

2. Great ethnic food in both places / I think fine cuisine is so-so, not great, in both cities (Prov. has a great French restaurant near the banks below the East side, NH has the Union League cafe. New Haven has a clear edge, IMO, in both "ethnic" food and fine dining. Nothing in Providence can touch ULC, Zinc, Caseus etc . . . . What NH needs is a take out lunch place like East Side Pockets on Thayer St. I almost never miss a chance for a Gyro pocket with the works . . .

3. Pretty good bar scenes. Getting a bit old for this, but my experience is that they are roughly equal.

4. I'd give an edge to New Haven's theater and arts scene. New Haven's galleries and libraries associated with Yale are world class, while Brown doesn't have anything like that. Yale Rep. Theatre and Long Wharf are well known. Clear edge to New Haven. Hartford Stage is better than Trinity Rep as well.

5. Access to big cities: NH is 1 hr. from NY by train, Prov. is 45 mins. from Boston

6. Access to pretty good beaches: Prov. is about 45 minutes from Little Compton and Horseneck, New Haven about 35 minutes from Hammonasset. Clear edge to Prov., though the better beaches are to the west, particularly Charlestown, East, and Weekapaug. Horseneck is a hole, though cheap parking is a positive. You can't go in the water after the end of June due to massive drifts of red seaweed.

7. The only thing Prov. has better than New Haven is better hotels and a better downtown mall, if you're into that sort of thing.
New Haven doesn't have the high end shopping that Providence has put in PP. Some of the chains have streetfront stores near Yale.

 

[upstater]

Agree that NH is the better comparison. Hartford has screwed up just about every major decision in the last 30 years. More below.

I've had great Asian/Malaysian and Ethiopian in New Haven, but in Providence, Apsara's, Mexico Garibaldi, the taco stands, Wes's Ribs, all outdo New Haven's Mexican, Thai and BBQ. And there's a no name/no sign Guatemalan restaurant in a shack behind the Jaguar dealership in So. Prov. that is fantastic. Not sure if they have a license to operate. The lady who runs it used to give me a jar of pickled veggies (spicy as hell) when I'd come in. Don't go if it's Guatemalan soccer night; it's bad news.

That being said, I found Prov's upscale joints very overrated, especially the Italian ones. But then again, I feel the same about Boston's North End. In NYC you can great authentic Italian fairly easily. In New england--not so much.

 

[8893]

Agree that NH is the better comparison. Hartford has screwed up just about every major decision in the last 30 years. More below.

New Haven has a clear edge, IMO, in both "ethnic" food and fine dining. Nothing in Providence can touch ULC, Zinc, Caseus etc . . . . What NH needs is a take out lunch place like East Side Pockets on Thayer St. I almost never miss a chance for a Gyro pocket with the works . . .

I don't know East Side Pockets, but if you want decent ethnic take out at a decent price New Haven does have a few newer and/or lesser-known options. Sababa! (yes, "!" is part of the name) on Whitney near Grove (next to Anna Liffey's, where Whole Enchilada used to be) is one of the newest entries, and it has really inexpensive Middle Eastern food, including Shawarma, which I find pretty much interchangeable with gyros. Also try Mediterranea on Orange near Chapel, which is a little less convenient, but a little better imo. For gyros, Town Pizza and Clark's both serve decent ones, for eat-in or take-out. The same people who opened Sababa! (and who also own Mickey's in Hamden) recently opened Mickey's Express a few doors down, which is a take-out place with lots of wraps, etc. Around the corner on Audubon St. is another new place, Pure, which sells various healthy wraps, salads and fresh-squeezed fruit and vegetable juices. The new Elm City Co-op also has a huge take-out/eat-in area, and is a great place to shop as well. And Judi's European Bakery on Grove is also solid for sandwiches, soups and salads. Finally, there is a little gem called Skappo Merkato that makes some of the best take-out sandwiches in town. But they are not fast, so calling ahead is advised. There are a lot of other take-out places (including several decent food trucks and all the Orange Street Italian markets). I agree that this used to be a weakness in the New Haven food scene, but it has gotten much better in recent years. Oh, and a Shake Shack will be opening soon next door to where Richter's used to be.

As for fine dining, Union League remains the tops imo. Always excellent. Always just right. I'm not as enamored with Caseus as others are; I do like Zinc but don't go there often. Some of the best of the rest imo include: L'Orcio and Skappo (both excellent Italian fare that is very different from the typical New Haven red sauce, Neapolitan places), Thali and Thali Too (outrageously good Indian food, unlike any you've ever had; the latter is all vegetarian), Barcelona and Ibiza (Spanish) and Bentara (Malaysian fusion). 116 Crown has a decent scene and good food as well, and I have heard much the same about a brand new place, the Naked Oyster, but I haven't been there yet.

And for beer geeks like me, Prime 16 and Cask Republic have both been wonderful additions with very good food as well; and the new Rudy's--although lacking the "charm" of the old location--is a much nicer space with a very good beer selection and a very good menu as well, including the Belgian Frites (with tons of dipping sauces) for which they have excelled for several years now.

 

[8893]

I've had great...Ethiopian in New Haven

Sadly, Caffe Adulis closed around four years ago. Lalibela is still open, but I don't think it is nearly as good as Adulis was. I loved that place, always a good time.

 

[yankeewc]

You give Buddy Cianci far too much credit. That plays exactly into how Ciancni would want it. Much of what got done during his time happened in spite of him. He was just shrewd enough to take credit for everything. I often wonder how much more could have been built in Providence if developers hadn't been scared off by having to pay Buddy a royalty.[/quote
Too much credit? Cianci was in office longer than any other mayor in the US. You don't think Cianci was clueless to what was going on in the city. He and his cronies had their own version of the teapot dome scandal.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Cianci was as dirty as it gets. He also presided over one of the more remarkable makeovers an American city has seen. He was also the first person I ever met who chewed tobacco and smoked a cigarette at the same time.

As far as the Providence/Pistol Waivin' debate, put me in the Providence camp. Zinc and Union League are perfectly fine restaurants but to say that Providence doesn't have anything that could "touch" either one of those places is a bit of a joke. Would Zinc be one of the ten best restaurants in Providence? I don't think so. And I really like New Haven.

 

[8893]

As far as the Providence/Pistol Waivin' debate, put me in the Providence camp. Zinc and Union League are perfectly fine restaurants but to say that Providence doesn't have anything that could "touch" either one of those places is a bit of a joke. Would Zinc be one of the ten best restaurants in Providence? I don't think so. And I really like New Haven.

I haven't spent enough time in Providence to weigh in on the contest; I was only suggesting that New Haven was a better comparison than Hartford.

Nothing against Zinc, but I don't think it's one of the ten best restaurants in New Haven, either. Union League, on the other hand, I'll put up against the best of Providence sight-unseen.

 

[upstater]

I lived in Providence for 2 years in the late 90s, and I go back every year. I found the upscale dining wildly overrated, but as I said it had one fantastic French place. That being said, for a city of its size, it had more great ethnic food than any city I've been to.

 

[Excalibur]

Cianci was as dirty as it gets. He also presided over one of the more remarkable makeovers an American city has seen. He was also the first person I ever met who chewed tobacco and smoked a cigarette at the same time.

As far as the Providence/Pistol Waivin' debate, put me in the Providence camp. Zinc and Union League are perfectly fine restaurants but to say that Providence doesn't have anything that could "touch" either one of those places is a bit of a joke. Would Zinc be one of the ten best restaurants in Providence? I don't think so. And I really like New Haven.

I've spent significant time in the past 12 years in both Providence (when my wife was a PhD student at Brown, plus her family lives in the area) and New Haven (been in the area since 2005), so I have recent experience in both cities. The food is better here, or at least more consistent. Not sure you could say that 10 years ago.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

After hearing Providence bashed on the yard for years I finally got there for parents weekend.
My grandson is a RSID student (Go Nads).
I was pleasantly suprised.
The downtown area near RSID and Brown were impressive.
The Italian place we ate at was so so.
I would rather go to Roseland in Derby.
Best Bread in the whole world and if Nonni comes in you can get homemade Ravioli.
I'm a valley transplant to AZ so what do I know.
I grew up on homemade Itlalian cooking.
My mom and her sisters thought providing the best tasting food was an Olympic event.
I love New Haven and I'm surprised no one mentioned Pepi's or Sally's
Our first stop on every trip is to Pepi's.
The other stop is Rich's Farm in Oxford.

 

[8893]

I would rather go to Roseland in Derby.
***
I love New Haven and I'm surprised no one mentioned Pepi's or Sally's
Our first stop on every trip is to Pepi's.

Roseland rocks. Love that place. The pasta dishes may be even better than the pizza.

Pepe's and Sally's were mentioned at least a few times; I think those are givens when you are talking about New Haven. Although, as has been debated here and elsewhere for time immemorial, many people (including me) include Modern Apizza and BAR in the holy quadrangle of New Haven pizza. Pepe's is still king of the clam pie. I haven't been to Sally's in years, but I hear that it has slipped considerably. They were never big on style points there, but I can tell you from driving down Wooster Street a few times a week that Sally's rarely has a line anymore, and Pepe's is the same as it ever was. I've asked some who frequent that scene more than I do and have been told that Sally's is quite dirty and hasn't kept up with the times.

 

[RS9999X]

I've spent significant time in the past 12 years in both Providence (when my wife was a PhD student at Brown, plus her family lives in the area) and New Haven (been in the area since 2005), so I have recent experience in both cities. The food is better here, or at least more consistent. Not sure you could say that 10 years ago.

I think this is true in every city BTW. Aging boomers with money seem to like decent food and have a wider pallette than their parents. Even Hartford, you can't compare 20 years ago with today. There's decent food in Hartford. Maybe not as diverse as New Haven but its far more diverse--and upscale--than 20 years ago.