OT: Brady out for 4 and Pats lose a first round pick. Nm | Page 18 | The Boneyard

OT: Brady out for 4 and Pats lose a first round pick. Nm

Status
Not open for further replies.
upstater said:
Goodell can't appoint an indy arbitrator. That's the whole point here. He will not elect to do that unless forced.
Expand ...
IMO, Judge Berman will rule that the original arbiter was biased. He will ordered Goodell to get an unbiased (less biased) arbiter.
 
Husky25 said:
Ultimately, I think Judge Berman will vacate this punishment (suspension and loss of wages) and throw it back to the NFL, with a strong reprimand. Goodell will then be required to appoint a truly independent arbiter. Brady will state his case and may ultimately be absolved that way.

Goodell will "resign" by the time the new CBA is negotiated and the cash cow that is the NFL will continue to thrive. Goodell has made these 32 men a lot of money, but ultimately they would rather make like the old school Mafia heads. Goodell is John Gotti, to their Carlo Gambino.
Expand ...

Goodell is doing exactly what is being asked of him by the majority of owners. He is going nowhere.

The fact that the Patriots had 2 draft picks taken away from them without any evidence being able to stand up to the simplest of scrutiny speaks more to the lack of credibility in the league than anything the Pats are accused of doing.
 
FrostyNuggets said:
Goodell is doing exactly what is being asked of him by the majority of owners. He is going nowhere.

The fact that the Patriots had 2 draft picks taken away from them without any evidence being able to stand up to the simplest of scrutiny speaks more to the lack of credibility in the league than anything the Pats are accused of doing.
Expand ...
You have to wonder what kind of backlash the Pats will get if this if the penalties are completely overturned. I know there can be no retribution, but I'd imagine that some of the folks who wanted this to happen will put the Pats under even closer scrutiny.
 
Husky25 said:
IMO, Judge Berman will rule that the original arbiter was biased. He will ordered Goodell to get an unbiased (less biased) arbiter.
Expand ...

I don't think he can make that order. Can he? I think he is there to judge on the award, not to negotiate the CBA.
 
upstater said:
I don't think he can make that order. Can he? I think he is there to judge on the award, not to negotiate the CBA.
Expand ...

Per Dan Wentzel of Yahoo:

"This is a disputed grievance," Nash argued.

It may be a salient legal point and one that will win the case for the NFL. Berman, though, didn't appear moved by it. The judge repeatedly noted that just because something is collectively bargained doesn't mean it can violate federal law.
Expand ...

The Bill of Rights address: 1. Due process, 2. Self -incrimination, and 3. illegal search and seizure (had it happened.).

Also, I think the fact that NFL filed first to affirm their ruling, they allow the Judge to review facts of the case and if the judgement fit the actions based on precedent. The Judge is not limited to reviewing procedure, which I believe is all Brady would have been able to appeal had he acted first.
 
Husky25 said:
Per Dan Wentzel of Yahoo:



The Bill of Rights address: 1. Due process, 2. Self -incrimination, and 3. illegal search and seizure (had it happened.).
Expand ...

This is a civil case, not a criminal one. Item 1 applies (to some extent), but 2 and 3 do not.
 
.-.
I think the judge can strongly recommend things like an arbitrator. This is part of the settlement conferences currently being held. But at the end of the day, when everyone leaves that court room on August 31st without a settlement, it is the judge's duty to affirm or reject the award. And that will be the only decision he can make after August 31st. Despite what a lot of people are saying, I think the case is done, one way or another, if it gets by August 31st.
 
Something doesn't have to violate the Constitution to violate federal law. A simple example could be that a collective bargaining agreement says employees will be paid 6.00/hr but that is below the minimum wage so it doesn't matter what the contract says. There are a myriad of federal rules governing labor relations and arbitration. You can't bargain those away even if you are willing to do so just like you can't bargain away the minimum wage even if you are willing to do so. That is the judge's point.
 
Pat fans seem to have a read on the judge.

I am SO hoping that read is wrong purely for the entertainment value...
 
upstater said:
I think the judge can strongly recommend things like an arbitrator. This is part of the settlement conferences currently being held. But at the end of the day, when everyone leaves that court room on August 31st without a settlement, it is the judge's duty to affirm or reject the award. And that will be the only decision he can make after August 31st. Despite what a lot of people are saying, I think the case is done, one way or another, if it gets by August 31st.
Expand ...
Doubtful.

Check out this Pro Football Talk article by Mike Florio. he sets out 7 - 8 things that could go into a ruling.

In lieu of affirming the four-game suspension or wiping it out entirely and giving Brady the right to play all 16 regular-season games in 2015 and beyond, Judge Berman could simply vacate the arbitration award entered by Commissioner Roger Goodell and send the case back to him for further proceedings. Judge Berman could do so with specific instructions aimed at correcting multiple flaws from the first appeal hearing before Commissioner Roger Goodell.
...

UPDATE 9:40 a.m. ET: Judge Berman also could simply send the thing back for a do-over with the requirement that an independent arbitrator be used. The independent arbitrator would then potential order many of the things listed above.
Expand ...
 
freescooter said:
Something doesn't have to violate the Constitution to violate federal law. A simple example could be that a collective bargaining agreement says employees will be paid 6.00/hr but that is below the minimum wage so it doesn't matter what the contract says. There are a myriad of federal rules governing labor relations and arbitration. You can't bargain those away even if you are willing to do so just like you can't bargain away the minimum wage even if you are willing to do so. That is the judge's point.
Expand ...
Absolutely, but it helps if a certain violation is spelled out as an unalienable right and explicitly protected by the Bill of Rights. ;)
 
.-.
Bonehead said:
Pat fans seem to have a read on the judge.

I am SO hoping that read is wrong purely for the entertainment value...
Expand ...

There is no read.

He is killing the NFL.

That desn't mean he will rule for Brady.

But he is bashing the NFL because the NFL has no evidence, rigged this thing against Brady, contradicts themselves daily, conducts themselves dishonestly.

But at the end f the day, if the NFLPA gave Goodell the right to do all this without a care about fairness, then the judge may say he was within the CBAs boundaries.
 
Nah, this kinda sounds like the baseball free agency case. There the arbiter suggested the league settle because they wouldn't like the decision.
 
Bonehead said:
"I know that that is very true, and, you know, as Peyton talked to guys who played for the Patriots, some of the guys who came over—whether it’s true or not he treated it as true," Dungy said. "We didn’t have a lot of strategy discussions inside the locker room there."
Expand ...

That's probably why the Pats were prepared for that pass play by the Seahawks. Beacuse they bugged their locker room. In Seattle.
 
The Super Bowl was played in Glendale, AZ. The Patriots wouldn't have to bug Seattle because they get all the All-22s they desire, as do the other 31 teams...but i'm sure your story will be reported on Good Morning America on a loop and retracted (maybe) by Steve Levy once at 12:30am 6 months from now.
 
Do you realize how much of this stuff goes on?

The Dolphins once blew out Brady and the Patriots 24-0 after stealing Brady's signals off a videotape.

The Jets taped the Patriots from the sidelines in 2006.

There were people spying on the Patriots during their Super Bowl practices in 2001.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/02/sports/pro-football-notebook-brady-says-ankle-is-fine.html

Or pulled fire alarms night before a game: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ds-at-patriots-hotel-for-super-bowl/22540611/

Then there's the Panthers GM who complained the Patriots had an advantage in their Super Bowl after stealing signals with Spygate. Now, it may well be the Patriots had stolen the Panthers' signals, but if they did steal them, they would have doneit perfectly legally. Why? Because they hadn't played the John Fox Panthers prior to that, and so they couldn't have stolen the signals from the sidelines. They could have only stolen them from gametape or else TV. The last time the Patriots had played the Panthers, George Seifert was the coach, 3 years earlier.
 
.-.
upstater said:
Do you realize how much of this stuff goes on?

The Dolphins once blew out Brady and the Patriots 24-0 after stealing Brady's signals off a videotape.

The Jets taped the Patriots from the sidelines in 2006.

There were people spying on the Patriots during their Super Bowl practices in 2001.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/02/sports/pro-football-notebook-brady-says-ankle-is-fine.html

Or pulled fire alarms night before a game: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ds-at-patriots-hotel-for-super-bowl/22540611/

Then there's the Panthers GM who complained the Patriots had an advantage in their Super Bowl after stealing signals with Spygate. Now, it may well be the Patriots had stolen the Panthers' signals, but if they did steal them, they would have doneit perfectly legally. Why? Because they hadn't played the John Fox Panthers prior to that, and so they couldn't have stolen the signals from the sidelines. They could have only stolen them from gametape or else TV. The last time the Patriots had played the Panthers, George Seifert was the coach, 3 years earlier.
Expand ...


That's all irrelevant, it only matters if the Patriots do it! Haha

Funny part is how far BB is in his opponents' heads. It's like Tiger or Tyson in his prime.
 
upstater said:
Do you realize how much of this stuff goes on?

The Dolphins once blew out Brady and the Patriots 24-0 after stealing Brady's signals off a videotape.

The Jets taped the Patriots from the sidelines in 2006.

There were people spying on the Patriots during their Super Bowl practices in 2001.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/02/sports/pro-football-notebook-brady-says-ankle-is-fine.html

Or pulled fire alarms night before a game: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ds-at-patriots-hotel-for-super-bowl/22540611/

Then there's the Panthers GM who complained the Patriots had an advantage in their Super Bowl after stealing signals with Spygate. Now, it may well be the Patriots had stolen the Panthers' signals, but if they did steal them, they would have doneit perfectly legally. Why? Because they hadn't played the John Fox Panthers prior to that, and so they couldn't have stolen the signals from the sidelines. They could have only stolen them from gametape or else TV. The last time the Patriots had played the Panthers, George Seifert was the coach, 3 years earlier.
Expand ...
or from the front row -

Perfectly legal and stolen in the same sentence- which is it?
Does stolen mean obtained illegally??
 
Bonehead said:
or from the front row -

Perfectly legal and stolen in the same sentence- which is it?
Does stolen mean obtained illegally??
Expand ...

Say what?

You think it's illegal to steal signals?

NEWSFLASH: It's not.

But now I understand your confusion with Spygate.
 
upstater said:
Say what?

You think it's illegal to steal signals?

NEWSFLASH: It's not.

But now I understand your confusion with Spygate.
Expand ...

How can you steal something legally?

Would you mind stealing us some money legally?
 
Last edited:
upstater said:
You've never heard the phrase "stealing signals?"
Expand ...

Or "stealing bases" apparently.

I'd like to imagine there's a small law enforcement task force out there working feverishly to bring these thieves to justice. On the wall of their office is a black and white photo of Ricky Henderson labeled "public enemy #1."
 
.-.
StoweD210 said:
Or "stealing bases" apparently.

I'd like to imagine there's a small law enforcement task force out there working feverishly to bring these thieves to justice. On the wall of their office is a black and white photo of Ricky Henderson labeled "public enemy #1."
Expand ...

LOL, sometimes I wonder why we even bother on this subject.
 
upstater said:
LOL, sometimes I wonder why we even bother on this subject.
Expand ...
I so agree.
Pat fans just can't stop defending an innocent man.
The last time I can remember an innocent man being so vehemently defended by fans and attorneys like Brady was OJ...
 
Bonehead said:
I so agree.
Pat fans just can't stop defending an innocent man.
The last time I can remember an innocent man being so vehemently defended by fans and attorneys like Brady was OJ...
Expand ...

LOL.

There is an ocean of difference between innocent and and not guilty.

In Brady's case there is no direct evidence that he did anything.

In OJ's case there was (apparently) enough "reasonable" doubt that he actually did that of which he was accused.
 
Husky25 said:
LOL.

There is an ocean of difference between innocent and and not guilty.

In Brady's case there is no direct evidence that he did anything.

In OJ's case there was (apparently) enough "reasonable" doubt that he actually did that of which he was accused.
Expand ...
Thanks for playing!!
:).

Upstater takes it all way too seriously...
 
Last edited:
Bonehead said:
I so agree.
Pat fans just can't stop defending an innocent man.
The last time I can remember an innocent man being so vehemently defended by fans and attorneys like Brady was OJ...
Expand ...

Im not defending anyone at the moment. Judge Berman is.

Still confused about things?
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,642
Messages
4,587,545
Members
10,497
Latest member
Orlando Fos


Top Bottom